Eirik: NPC Skald

[EiriktheScald]

Zeke: Come one, come all! Take a look at the stone warrior maiden. How long has she been trapped in this petrified form, no one knows! Be the first to learn, for the mere price of 500 gold...

 

Eirik: And what price would you pay to keep that head of yours atop your shoulders? 500 gold? Hand over the scroll, now!

 

Zeke: Ahh, no! Help!

 

Eirik: You have caused this! Now fight, or die with your back turned!

 

Zeke: No, not I... I found her statue, it is true... but I didn't do it!

 

Eirik: She may be helpless, but I am not! Now hand me the scroll!

 

Zeke: Alright, alright... I meant no harm. Here you go...

[EiriktheScald]

So why's it still there when I go there in the winter months? (Or are you saying it was midsummer at the time of the event?)

There are several references in the game that it's the Midsummer fair.

[Miloch]

There are several references in the game that it's the Midsummer fair.

Then I guess the land is stuck in perpetual midsummer.

 

The Amnish soldiers appear to have no interest in the carnival. But shouldn't there be more carnies present? I'm just thinking, what would happen if you did attack Zeke or if he seriously called for help... shouldn't you get jumped by a pack of bearded ladies, dwarves (carny dwarves, that is), displacer beast tamers or who knows what else?

[berelinde]

One of the links in Domi's sig is for CRPG cliches. One of those is that there are always more people in any town than there are houses for them to live in (think Nashkel or Beregost). The next step to that would be that there are always less people than there should be.

 

If you were travelling to Nashkel, how would *you* like to wait for an area with 700 spawning CREs (and associated livestock) to load? That would be one long hiccup in game-play.

[EiriktheScald]

The Amnish soldiers appear to have no interest in the carnival. But shouldn't there be more carnies present? I'm just thinking, what would happen if you did attack Zeke or if he seriously called for help... shouldn't you get jumped by a pack of bearded ladies, dwarves (carny dwarves, that is), displacer beast tamers or who knows what else?

 

Seeing someone you care about turned to stone-- and then seeing this hawker trying to turn a profit on her misfortune, wouldn't you be incensed?

 

How did Zeke know the statue was a real person anyhow? Why doesn't HE use the scroll to release her?

 

Zeke reminded me of Edmund Burke's quote: "All that is necessary for evil to win the world is for good men to do nothing." It is deplorable how he has no conscience. You might even draw the same conclusion as Eirik; that he was involved somehow.

 

Your thief will just have to calm him down and obtain the scroll using other methods; methods I'm sure Eirik might not approve.

[Miloch]

If you were travelling to Nashkel, how would *you* like to wait for an area with 700 spawning CREs (and associated livestock) to load? That would be one long hiccup in game-play.

Uh... I wouldn't. I wouldn't think Nashkel had that population to start with. Anyhow, I wasn't talking about Nashkel town - I was talking about the carnival.

Seeing someone you care about turned to stone-- and then seeing this hawker trying to turn a profit on her misfortune, wouldn't you be incensed? <snip> Your thief will just have to calm him down and obtain the scroll using other methods; methods I'm sure Eirik might not approve.

I think both of you are missing my point (or you're just making your own, unrelated points, which is perfectly fine. ). I wasn't saying what Eirik was doing was wrong, or even that there should be more CREs per se at the carnival. I was just saying that the carnies can't call for guards if I recall right, like, for example, townspeople in Nashkel could. So if someone (anyone, including Eirik) threatened a carny and that carny called for help, they should get jumped by other carnies. Though maybe that's more appropriate in an SCS-type mod if you don't feel like dealing with it in an NPC mod.

 

And my point about my thief picking Zeke's pocket - he can do that before initiating dialogue. Possibly without Eirik even seeing (if the target doesn't notice, why should someone else?). So what does Zeke do when Eirik threatens him for the scroll and Zeke finds he no longer has it? All I'm saying is you should consider an alternative dialog for that (as most dialogs have several alternatives).

 

Edit: Oh, and something I just thought of. If you're not going to give Eirik a custom kit removing his pickpocketing ability, even *he* could pick Zeke's pocket for the scroll, in theory (yes I know even vanilla skalds have horrible pickpocketing but there's items, potions etc.). You always have to account for PC uses of your NPC, whether you intend the NPC to be used that way or not as its creator.

[EiriktheScald]

I think both of you are missing my point (or you're just making your own, unrelated points, which is perfectly fine. ).

Quite possibly unrelated.

 

I wasn't saying what Eirik was doing was wrong, or even that there should be more CREs per se at the carnival. I was just saying that the carnies can't call for guards if I recall right, like, for example, townspeople in Nashkel could.

Yes, I see your point. What's zeke to do in this situation? He has a clear disadvantage. I see it as a stall tactic.

 

So if someone (anyone, including Eirik) threatened a carny and that carny called for help, they should get jumped by other carnies. Though maybe that's more appropriate in an SCS-type mod if you don't feel like dealing with it in an NPC mod.

The carnival is not well attended this year due to the bandit raids and trouble in the mines. So how many are actually close enough to hear him (how loud can a gnome be)?

 

And my point about my thief picking Zeke's pocket - he can do that before initiating dialogue. Possibly without Eirik even seeing (if the target doesn't notice, why should someone else?). So what does Zeke do when Eirik threatens him for the scroll and Zeke finds he no longer has it? All I'm saying is you should consider an alternative dialog for that (as most dialogs have several alternatives).

 

Yes, that did cross my mind. That in itself will have consequences. Eirik wouldn't know if you already swiped the scroll. And when zeke discovers he doesn't have it anymore... you're going to have a hard time explaining how you just happen to have the scroll handy for just this situation.

 

Edit: Oh, and something I just thought of. If you're not going to give Eirik a custom kit removing his pickpocketing ability, even *he* could pick Zeke's pocket for the scroll, in theory (yes I know even vanilla skalds have horrible pickpocketing but there's items, potions etc.). You always have to account for PC uses of your NPC, whether you intend the NPC to be used that way or not as its creator.

I'm not as concerned about this. One way to avoid these issues is to trigger Eirik's dialog when you're within a certain distance to zeke. I could also script Eirik to use the scroll and release Branwen, but that would change the encounter considerably. Would players be happy with this? [Edit:] This was a rough draft to give you an idea of his reaction. There will also be a very moving soliloquy as he discovers her statue. So you will see a range of emotion here.

[Miloch]

So how many are actually close enough to hear him (how loud can a gnome be)?

Well he's right between two weaponers (melee and ranged). But let's assume they wouldn't leave their tents and stocks to help him. Realistically though, I doubt those tents would have no guards lurking behind a virtual flap somewhere. Plus there's other tents nearby that are pretty fully stocked (e.g. the Gambling Tent). If it comes to a fight, I could see Zeke either running or calling up some carnies, perhaps seemingly out of "nowhere" (they just happen to be lurking around, doing carny things). *If* it comes to that - that might just be one dialogue option (threatening him too far) out of several. Compare how the "thugs" appear during the Silke/Garrick interaction (though for different purposes). Again, maybe not something you want to deal with right now if your main goal is NPC dialog - just a thought.

(how loud can a gnome be)?

Dunno any gnomes, but IRL it's often the smaller the louder (like babies and small dogs). And he's a carny trained to draw an audience.

And when zeke discovers he doesn't have it anymore... you're going to have a hard time explaining how you just happen to have the scroll handy for just this situation.

Maybe. Though you could keep that quiet until the time arises to use it. And then, it could be "where'd I get this scroll? I'm good pals with the priest of Nashkel, he wanted me to hold on to this..." Or you could confess to pickpocketing it, which might be an interesting dialogue option if you've already gotten into a scrap with Zeke.

 

It's been a while, but I think Branwen threatens Zeke also, if you return and talk to him after freeing her. So you might consider how Eirik might interject into that.

One way to avoid these issues is to trigger Eirik's dialog when you're within a certain distance to zeke.

That would preclude the possibility of Eirik picking his pocket, but you could always solo a stealthed Imoen (or whoever) in to do the job.

I could also script Eirik to use the scroll and release Branwen, but that would change the encounter considerably. Would players be happy with this?

Tricky if Eirik doesn't have the scroll (though you could take a leap of faith and have him get the scroll from whomever has it - *if* anyone has it).

[Kaeloree]

Couldn't you just destroy the scroll from everyone's inventories, then create it in Eirik's inventory, just in case? That would preclude him not having the scroll, I'd have thought, and is the obvious solution. I'm probably overlooking something silly, though...

[Miloch]

That would preclude him not having the scroll, I'd have thought, and is the obvious solution.

Well it's *a* solution, but I was thinking about it more from a realism perspective than a technical one. For example, how does Eirik end up with the scroll when Imoen pickpocketed it and he didn't see her do it? I guess if you worked in enough dialogue (e.g. Imoen sheepishly handing it over) it might work. Though what if my PC thief swiped it and wants to be the one to free Branwen?

[EiriktheScald]

berelinde provided an easy solution: short circuit Zeke's dialog until Eirik sees Branwen. Will have to see if it can be done.

[berelinde]

berelinde provided an easy solution: short circuit Zeke's dialog until Eirik sees Branwen. Will have to see if it can be done.

 

Keep in mind that with the solution I gave you, you are going to have to come up with something for Zeke to say if Eirik is in the party but he has not *yet* seen Branwen.

 

For example, the Zeke's initial line could be unchanged, but if Eirik has not yet seen Branwen, Eirik could say "*What* frozen priestess of the North? etc"

 

With this bit in his script, Zeke should start talking before anyone gets anywhere near him. Of course, that won't help if someone gulped an invisibility potion first.

 

IF
 InParty("ESEirik")
 InMyArea("ESEirik")
 !StateCheck("ESEirik","CD_STATE_NOTVALID")
 Global("ESZekeSpeak","GLOBAL",0)
 OR(6)
See(Player1)
See(Player2)
See(Player3)
See(Player4)
See(Player5)
See(Player6)
THEN
 RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("ESZekeSpeak","GLOBAL",1)
StartDialog("_ZEKE",Player1)
END

 

If you're worried about what would happen in a multi-player game where someone who isn't Player1 is directing Eirik's movements, you could probably swap Eirik's DV for Player1 in the last line, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

[berelinde]

When I get home this evening, I'll have a look at Zeke's dialog file and see what options might work. I'll put together a list of stuff to try. It's possible you will be able to get away with only a small amount of work, but I'm going to have to see Zeke's state 0 before I can say for certain.

[EiriktheScald]

Thanks berelinde! BTW I wasn't even considering multiplayer. I thought that was for playing your own character; why would somone else want to play Eirik?

[berelinde]

When you're playing in multi-player mode, you still have the option of recruiting NPCs. When my boyfriend and I play, he usually takes the PC ones and assigns control of the talkative, BioWare or mod ones to me. I would be Player 2, in all likelihood, but I would want to see Eirik's dialog if Zeke were talking to Eirik as opposed to the party leader. Which is why it's important to make sure that if you are having one NPC talk to another NPC, as opposed to the protagonist, you don't just put Player1 between the parenthetical brackets in StartDialog().

 

That way, he doesn't have to be bothered by NPC chatter, but I get to enjoy it.