Requests for BG1 *contains SPOILERS*

[berelinde]

I'm going to have to comb this whole board to get everything.

 

But that's kind of the idea, I guess. At least the ideas have been good ones!

[Flarn]

This board seems to be turning into suggestions for BG2 as well as BG1. I hope you don't mind.

 

Anyway, I just thought of something else, something that worries me a bit.

 

Will Gavin and PC have conflicts regarding child rearing, specifically discipline issues? I know in certain cultural backgrounds here on Earth which seem similar to what Gavin comes from, everybody and their uncle used to think spanking was great for kids, or at the very least 'it never did me any harm, so it won't hurt my offspring either.' Now, Gavin strikes me as the type who wouldn't be keen on it, and I get that from a comment you can make to Gavin when he tells you the story about stealing the candles and ending up in the basement of the Temple, the one about how he should have been whipped within an inch of his life and he says he's glad you weren't in charge of discipline.

 

I'm just bringing it up because any of the PCs I have played so far would be brought up on domestic abuse charges if Gavin thought spanking Lanie was a good idea, no matter how he justified it. Granted, that would be hypocritical, but it's hard to think when you're in a murderous rage.

 

Flarn

[berelinde]

Somehow, I don't really see him as a parent who would spank his child, either, or one who would allow someone else to spank their child without saying anything, but I hadn't really planned to discuss the discipline area of child-rearing. As part of planning for BG2, I'll undoubtably be reading every single dialogue file in the game at some point. If there is a child beater, he'll say something. He's going to have a stroke over the halfling who kills Wellyn (Linus?).

 

There are so many other aspects of child-rearing that he and the PC need to discuss. Like whether or not they're going to have any. By the time BG2 is out, I hope to have Gavin available in BGT, but for Tutu users, variables are not transferred to BG2. All these issues are going to have to be communicated all over again, and I don't want the experience to be completely about family issues. There are people who like the idea that he wants a big family, but there are probably also those who would prefer that they remain childless and would be just as happy without even Lanie. He isn't going to force the PC to bear children. If she doesn't want any, he will be content with the daughter he already has.

[Kulyok]

(And we got the second Gavin-Xan dialogue ready! Though maybe Xan should have received a worse spanking, after all... but Gavin is too kind and compassionate. )

 

Here's an, um, *blush* a more "mature content" question: in certain Gavin-Jaheira dialogue Jaheira insists that he uses preventative herbs. I was a bit confused, because, first, Jaheira was talking behind PC's back(well, my PC heard, but from RP perspective I assumed they were talking among each other, so she might not have), and second, how could Jaheira know whether my PC wanted kids or not? I mean, my PC might have well wanted kids(and not use herbs), and if she didn't, she would tell Gavin, but not Jaheira, so there's no way Jaheira would know. So it seemed a little strange.

 

( I remember in BG1 NPC Project Jaheira had a talk with Imoen about this stuff, too, but I guess it was more like "You should know this, and I advise you to use it", and it was just advice to the girl - or so it seemed to me?)

[berelinde]

Yes, thanks to Kulyok, all the romance conflict material is finally done. She pulled the last one together, and it was a balancing act, because neither man is exactly uncomplicated.

 

On to the Jaheira banter: Not sure what you're requesting, here.

 

If you're asking if I'll delete this banter, the answer is no. I rather like it. But I don't want to inflict it on people who find the concept of family planning offensive, for whatever reason, so I have to put a condition on it.

 

The role-playing (and rather flip) reason for justifying Jaheira's knowledge of this discussion is that I figure Jaheira makes it her business to investigate every other aspect of <CHARNAME>'s personal life, she probably eavesdropped on their family planning discussion, or grilled someone who was in the party at the time.

 

The real reason that I restricted this banter for people who chose either the "I want kids as soon as possible" option *or* the abstinence option is because I wanted to avoid offending the sensibilities of people who prefer not to discuss birth control. This was probably an unnecessary precaution, but it didn't cost me anything to include the check for it.

 

If the PC is sleeping with Gavin, and has said that she either doesn't want kids or wants them "in the future," then Jaheira will offer her advice, welcome or not, as always. If she is abstaining, or if she is hoping for a family soon, this conversation won't happen.

 

No matter what the PC decides, there won't be any children in BG 1 or 2. If the PC's wishes include having a family with Gavin, there will be children in the epilogue. Otherwise, not.

[Eleima]

The role-playing (and rather flip) reason for justifying Jaheira's knowledge of this discussion is that I figure Jaheira makes it her business to investigate every other aspect of <CHARNAME>'s personal life, she probably eavesdropped on their family planning discussion, or grilled someone who was in the party at the time.

 

The real reason that I restricted this banter for people who chose either the "I want kids as soon as possible" option *or* the abstinence option is because I wanted to avoid offending the sensibilities of people who prefer not to discuss birth control. This was probably an unnecessary precaution, but it didn't cost me anything to include the check for it.

 

If the PC is sleeping with Gavin, and has said that she either doesn't want kids or wants them "in the future," then Jaheira will offer her advice, welcome or not, as always. If she is abstaining, or if she is hoping for a family soon, this conversation won't happen.

 

No matter what the PC decides, there won't be any children in BG 1 or 2. If the PC's wishes include having a family with Gavin, there will be children in the epilogue. Otherwise, not.

 

Hooray!!! More Gavin-Xan banters!!!

 

On the Gavin-Jaheira banter: I think that what Kulyok is trying to say here (and correct me if I'm wrong), I think she's saying that it seems kinda odd because the PC wasn't supposed to hear this, because Jaheira was having a little one-on-one talk with Gavin. I think.

 

Now, how I feel about this banter. I thought it was totally in character, and it didn't seem out of place at all. It made sense to my PC that she wouldn't want to have kids while on the Road, adventuring (whatever Aerie may say in ToB ). Now, however, I understand that it would seem odd that Jaheira would remind Gavin of the therapeutic virtues of those herbs if the PC wanted to have kids immediately, and wasn't taking said herbs. So I guess including the check is probably a good idea. But that's just me.

[Kulyok]

I guess what I want to say is that Jaheira is a rather direct character, blunt sometimes. I would think her banter with Gavin would be totally in character, if she first had a banter with the PC, asked PC whether she wanted to have children, received a "no" answer and only in this case, she would grill Gavin(and she'll probably warn PC about herbs beforehand, too).

 

But as it is, I got an impression of her as skulking around and listening to private conversations, and then acting behind PC's back.

[Kulyok]

Btw, I've looked up the code and it might be not working properly: Jaheira banter checks for GlobalLT("B!GavinKids","GLOBAL",2), but this variable isn't used anywhere else?

[berelinde]

It should be set during LT16. I think. Need to check. *And* there should be a check to see if the PC and Gavin are actually sleeping together. I think Jaheira might notice if they are.

 

Yikes, I think I did code it wrong, but I need to go back and check what the different numbers are.

 

She should comment if the PC and Gavin are sleeping together and want kids someday or never, but not if they want kids now or aren't sleeping together. If it's 0=never, 1=someday, 2=now, I'm fine. Otherwise, I need to recode this.

 

In any case, it isn't rocket science. I should be able to figure it out once I have the code in front of me.

[berelinde]

I guess what I want to say is that Jaheira is a rather direct character, blunt sometimes. I would think her banter with Gavin would be totally in character, if she first had a banter with the PC, asked PC whether she wanted to have children, received a "no" answer and only in this case, she would grill Gavin(and she'll probably warn PC about herbs beforehand, too).

 

But as it is, I got an impression of her as skulking around and listening to private conversations, and then acting behind PC's back.

You mean like she does when she pumps Imoen for gossip about the PC? I could quote chapter and verse, but it would have to wait until I got home. I think she asks Imoen if she ever acts haunted, and Imoen says that she does indeed, so haunted that she leaves her clothes all over the place. Jaheira gets annoyed and says never mind, just let her know if she remembers anything later.

 

Imoen and Jaheira don't have that many banters, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. She's got one about the birds and the bees, and another about Imoen's plans for the future, and that's about it.

 

She also banters with Ajantis and says that she overheard the PC saying that she planned to replace Ajantis. She certainly intends Ajantis to think she spies on the PC.

 

Jaheira does this anyway, so I didn't have a problem with her spying on the PC with regards to her relationship with Gavin.

[Kulyok]

Yes, I remember these project banters, too. I think my acceptance of those ones and my main problem with this particular banter was that with those banters Jaheira sounds as if she was speaking in plain view of the PC - and with Ajantis, to me it seems as if she is just teasing him. If she said "Gavin, are you and CHARNAME planning to have children in the immediate future?" - "Well, no, but..." - I wouldn't be complaining. But as it is... Ah, never mind me. This is only my impression, after all.

[berelinde]

Actually, I'm glad you raised this issue, because it lets me talk about something that isn't really obvious.

 

Part of this was that I wanted to convey with this banter was the idea that Jaheira was not easily letting go of her role as the PC's guardian. She is forced to concede that the PC can make her own romantic decisions, but she isn't quite ready to butt out completely. I don't think she feels that she has to clear her actions with the PC, even when they are done on her behalf.

 

And that is why she doesn't talk about it with the PC first.

 

Part of this is a power struggle between Gavin and Jaheira. Jaheira is relatively older than most of the other people in BG1, at least in racial terms, and is probably more experienced. She imagines that she is wiser, and therefore justified in telling other people what to do, for their own best interests, of course. But she is not that much older than Gavin. She just can't use the same maternal/intimidating approach that she uses with the younger party members. With him, she has to back off a bit. Immediately after they are engaged, she grills him about his devotion to the PC, and wins. This is definitely her guardian instinct talking. She isn't about to discuss this with her ward first. After their relationship becomes intimate, she tries the same approach, but this time, she receives what I hoped was a mild MYOB.

 

In the latter case, she doesn't talk about it with the PC for the reasons I gave in the post above, but also because it detracts from the shift in the dynamic in the relationship between Jaheira and Gavin.

[DalreiDal]

Hey, sorry, but, when is it <CHARNAME> and Gavin are supposed to discuss children??? I think I either missed it or don't remember it... Was it real early?? or real late??

[berelinde]

LT 16, the LT after the one with the spider.

 

They start out talking about fear, and then telling stories to grandkids. And as much as people would like to have grandchildren without having first had children, it just isn't possible.

[Eleima]

Part of this was that I wanted to convey with this banter was the idea that Jaheira was not easily letting go of her role as the PC's guardian. She is forced to concede that the PC can make her own romantic decisions, but she isn't quite ready to butt out completely. I don't think she feels that she has to clear her actions with the PC, even when they are done on her behalf.

And that is why she doesn't talk about it with the PC first.

Part of this is a power struggle between Gavin and Jaheira. Jaheira is relatively older than most of the other people in BG1, at least in racial terms, and is probably more experienced. She imagines that she is wiser, and therefore justified in telling other people what to do, for their own best interests, of course. But she is not that much older than Gavin. She just can't use the same maternal/intimidating approach that she uses with the younger party members. With him, she has to back off a bit. Immediately after they are engaged, she grills him about his devotion to the PC, and wins. This is definitely her guardian instinct talking. She isn't about to discuss this with her ward first. After their relationship becomes intimate, she tries the same approach, but this time, she receives what I hoped was a mild MYOB.

 

That's funny, maybe I'm the only one, but I totally agree with your view, and it seemed implied for me. I can totally picture Jaheira taking her role as a guardian quite litteraly, and trying to "look out after the PC". I don't know, I guess I'm not asking enough questions.