To "unlame" Rangers in IWD2....

[Domi]

I keep hearing that Rangers are underpowered in IWD2. It's lame because I love rangers (who'd have guessed, huh). So, without further ado, if I was to go into it and try to give the rangers a few boons to make them special all over again via mod, what would be the alterations that will make them 'cool'?

[Raven_Song]

I posted this at CoM but as I'm here....

 

 

Give them further "to hit" bonuses when dual wielding.

 

Animal companions.

 

They're naturally agile so give them the Evasion feat at X level.

[Luiz]

^ Agree with all that.

 

Especially the animal companions (although they would, I assume, be the hardest part to implement).

[Domi]

I'm reposting from gamebanshee:

 

The biggest problem is to make the creature move between areas.

 

One of BG2 mods (Azure) used MoveGlobalObject. Off hand it does not exist in IWd2, but I am wondering if it can be simulated or added. I'm going to browse Cirerrek's script comparisons to see if anything presents itself.

[Domi]

There is a:

 

MoveToObjectUntilSee(O:Target*) that is not described in iesdp. I'll give it a try, I suppose.

[Raven_Song]

I'll give it a try, I suppose.

 

Yay!

 

If it works it will be a real plus for rangers, and a real draw for players ... if not c'est la vie, hopefullly other improvements will prove equally as appealing.

[Domi]

Heh, I managed to summon creature every time the party enters new area. However, it's now immortal.

 

I think I can make it better by a) making creature leave if it is out of ranger's sight for longer than a few seconds and not return for some time and leave for longer if it falls below 95% hitpoints. The creature will "heal" upon enetering every new area - it's an exploit, I know, but the resummon based on out of ranger's sight is the best I can do, upon trying many, many things.

 

It will require a long-long script and many-many CRE files to make the creature summon at an appropriate level in every new area etc. I think that my initial plan to develop 9 creatures for each alignment is too much work, so I'll probably run with three:

 

Bear, Panther and Wolf for Good, Neutral and Evil alignments correspondingly.

 

Also, I think I will require the ranger to have high Animal Empathy to have a companion and only one ranger per party will be able to have it.

 

Does that sound like a relatively good compromise?

[Loké]

Could you do something like the familiar system in Baldur's Gate 2? That is to say, have a dialog or something that creates a lure/bait for your animal companion, so you can summon it like a familiar everytime you enter a new area?

 

Or perhaps rig it like the spdier figurine-an item with unlimited charges, that when used attracts your animal companion. (I dunno what exactly-jar of honey for your bear, dog biscuit for the wolf? )

 

 

 

Dunno if I'm helping much, but it's the thought that counts, right?

[Domi]

I really don't want the figurine/summon approach. What I am doing now works exactly the same way, only the animal appears more "independent", which is what I want

[the bigg]

Also, I think I will require the ranger to have high Animal Empathy to have a companion and only one ranger per party will be able to have it.

Er, an animal companion is likely going to be less powerful than any summoning spell anyway, so nerfing it by forcing to pick points in the less useful skill in the spectrum makes the companion even less interesting than if it didn't have requirements (if you need to pick Animal Empathy to summon a creature, I'd rather have my cleric cast Animate Dead, thank you very much ).

 

Anyway, if you're looking for something on level with the warrior's feats or the barbarian's HP (not to mention paladins and monks), you'd have to force your hand a little.

A possible idea would be to give real skill bonuses (a +1 here and there isn't going to cut it anyway). I'd do give a +1 with the following pattern:

• levels 3n+1 (1,4,7...): Hide, Wilderness Lore
  
• levels 3n+2 (2,5,8...): Move Silently, Animal Empathy
  
• levels 3n (3,6,9...): Search, Concentration
  

(and an additional +1 to each of these skills at level 1), for a total of 2 bonus skill points per level.

This one would make Rangers a skill points whore - basically giving them something to say over Feat whores, HP whores, ST whores and MR whores (respectively, Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins and Monks). Also, in 2nd ed. (or at least so in BG1/2 & IWD1) they'd get `free' points in these skills

While this wouldn't be a turning point for powergamers (skill points are only really important for spellcasters), they'd be at least useful for non-powergamers (as opposed to the total losers they were before).

 

Other possible things are:

• *real* Ambidestry & Dual Fighting at 7' level. With practice, you should be even better at dual-wield even with chain mail IMHO.
  
• 3rd pip in Armor Proficiency and Shield Proficiency at 10'. After all, in 2nd ed they had those from level 1.
  
• Bow focus at 3' level, specialization at 6', +1 bow thac0 at 9,12,15.... They're supposed to be very good archers after all.
  

While none of these things alone would make them any better than a pure fighter, when you start stacking the various bonuses rangers can be considered at least on par with a normal fighter.

[Domi]

Er, an animal companion is likely going to be less powerful than any summoning spell anyway, so nerfing it by forcing to pick points in the less useful skill in the spectrum makes the companion even less interesting than if it didn't have requirements (if you need to pick Animal Empathy to summon a creature, I'd rather have my cleric cast Animate Dead, thank you very much ).

 

I don't think that Animal companion will be less powerful than the summon. I am going to do the same thing that 3.5 ED has for them, ie they level up with the character, gaining HP, stats, AC, magic fangs etc. I am actually concerned about them being too formidable.

[BigRob]

Of course, the animal companion could be made stronger over time, to represent the experience gained by the animal, perhaps modulated in part by the Ranger's Animal Empathy (representing the ranger's ability to communicate with the animal about what they've been through).

[Domi]

Nah, too much scripting. In pen-and-paper, the animal levels up every third level of its human counterpart, so I will just do the same.

[the bigg]

I don't think that Animal companion will be less powerful than the summon. I am going to do the same thing that 3.5 ED has for them, ie they level up with the character, gaining HP, stats, AC, magic fangs etc. I am actually concerned about them being too formidable.

They ought to be really powerful to beat the A.D. skeletons' slashing/piercing damage resistance IMHO, and then it'd feel like the Ranger playing at being a summoner

 

Even if Rangers had a permanent Gelugon companion (= the creature that you get via Gate), a cleric can still summon six Greater Boneguards and make short work of the Gelugon (or cast Protection against Evil and summon six Gelugons )

 

IMHO, the better way to unlame a class is giving them something that no other class can replicate - in my example, lots of skill points and a pseudo-Archer kit (with the last item).

[Domi]

I see what you are saying. Similar if not exactly the same stuff was done already, apparently. Not archery per se though.