Rizdaer's Portrait possibility (if someone could do an edit?)

[Gorilym]

But what about his eyes? Regardless of the colour, most of the sources agree they just look different - e.g. no whites or mostly irises anyhow. I'd be wondering what's up with that, that's all I'm saying.

 

Come now, this is the Forgotten Realms. Even if his eyes are plain wrong for a drow, (which I'm not saying that they are) you could easily come up with some kind of (magical) reason for it - such a thing would hardly be the most extraordinary thing to happen in the setting.

[Miloch]

Even at 110 x 170, unless you've got a honking big monitor, you're never going to be able to make out whether his eyes are light blue or grey all the way to the edge or if they have some sclera around them.

Well, for one thing I thought the portraits were larger in IWD (or had an option for viewing larger anyhow) and for another, maybe I'm not talking so much about the portrait anymore, but how it's handled in-game. He's incognito, dyes his hair and skin, ok... what's he do about his eyes (if anything)? If the answer is "nothing - his eyes happen to look like normal elf eyes (somehow)" or "nothing - his eyes could give him away potentially" or "something (and you'll have to tune in to figure out what)" then fine... at least those are answers.

Come now, this is the Forgotten Realms. Even if his eyes are plain wrong for a drow, (which I'm not saying that they are) you could easily come up with some kind of (magical) reason for it...

Ah yes, our eternal debater surfaces again... (Or wait... is that me? ). Fair enough, so what's the reason?

[Gorilym]

Ah yes, our eternal debater surfaces again... (Or wait... is that me? ).

We can call it a tie.

Fair enough, so what's the reason?

Off the top of my head - Rizdaer might have done a powerful magic-user a favour, who in return changed the appearance of his eyes by way of spell, this so he could more easily blend in on the surface. Or he might have cheesed off said magic-user, i.e. his unusual eyes are the result of a (half-assed or failed, since it's not really malevolent) curse.

[Domi]

He does not try to pass for an elf, but a half-drow, so if there is indeed any difference between drow and elven eyes we are in the clear here - he simply assigns it to his drow half. If there is not, we are fine also. My sources are the same as Kelenthial's in that drow eye color varies, and blue/amber eyes are occuring there and they are not different from elven.

[Kelenthial]

Half drow means half-drow/half-human I presume, since there are no other half-drows in Faerun (when surface elves have children with drows, they are always drows... though later in the family tree some of them may have some surface characteristics, for example different color of hair <different than white, that is>)..anyways, my point is that while different from the drow in some aspects, they still have black skin, so, the 'lighten up' feature for Rizdaer is not actually needed^^'... But what a heck that is a matter of no importance anyway...

 

And about the 'red eyes' of a drow -- all creatures appear to have 'red eyes' while using infrafision, and drow live in the Underdark so they use infrafision all the time. But their eye colors 'are not different from elven', because they *are* elven after all;) So there is really nothing strange in Rizd's striking blue eyes:)

[berelinde]

Even if there aren't any half-drow of mixed drow/moon elf parentage, humans might not know that.

[Kelenthial]

Hm, the thing with elves is that if there is ANY kind of mixed parentage the child will always have characteristic of one of its parents. That means that fe: moon elf and sun elf can have children both moon and sun elven, but there are no half moon/half sun... However, children of the drow always bore characteristics of their dark parent -- that's why Vhareaun is encouraging his followers to mixed relationships -- and one of the reasons why, long time ago, the Illythiri started to think about themself as superior to any other elves -- 'because even our blood is stronger'.

 

This is common knowledge to anybody who knows basics about elven race, but I agree that simple fighters of the kind Rizdaer was working with before he was given under protagonist's 'care' probably wouldn't know about that at all. Still, they probably would not love even a normal elf, so he was anyways in the lost position...

 

Hm, I think I write too much... probably am starting to bore/annoy you, so I will just wait there, in the corner, for the first release...

[Miloch]

Sigh. I was even happy to let Gorilym's last (rather lame ) explanation stand. It was remotely plausible anyhow. But you just *had* to drag me into this topic again, didn't you?

Half drow means half-drow/half-human I presume, since there are no other half-drows in Faerun...

Not sure where you got that. There is certainly also precedent for elf-drow crossbreeds in Faerun, as well as drow-human ones.

...(when surface elves have children with drows, they are always drows... though later in the family tree some of them may have some surface characteristics, for example different color of hair <different than white, that is>)..anyways, my point is that while different from the drow in some aspects, they still have black skin, so, the 'lighten up' feature for Rizdaer is not actually needed^^'...

Or where you got that... very non-drow looking image of a Faerunian elf-drow crossbreed (one of many - do a google image search of Zhai for a bunch more). This is even a character in the FR novels, which you seem to hold so high as source material .

And about the 'red eyes' of a drow -- all creatures appear to have 'red eyes' while using infrafision...

Or that either. 'Glowing eyes' do not equal 'red irises' necessarily.

...and drow live in the Underdark so they use infrafision all the time.

Maybe. Though that wouldn't mean their eyes would be 'red' or 'glowing' on the surface (where this character evidently is masquerading).

But their eye colors 'are not different from elven', because they *are* elven after all;) So there is really nothing strange in Rizd's striking blue eyes:)

Yeah. Well that's like saying a native Peruvian's eyes shouldn't be any different from a native Swede's eyes. Only worse, because we're talking about completely different subraces, not just different branches of the human race.

 

Anyway, all that aside... I'm wondering what benefit a drow would get for trying to pass himself off as a half-drow (whether the other half be human or elven). That's kinda like an orc trying to pass himself off as a half-orc. I'm not saying it's not possible - I'm just asking why. Wouldn't those who hate or distrust drows also distrust those with obvious drow blood?

[Kelenthial]

But you just *had* to drag me into this topic again, didn't you? tongue.gif

...I... I'm sorry^^'

 

Not sure where you got that. There is certainly also precedent for elf-drow crossbreeds in Faerun, as well as drow-human ones.

Technically they are, but they have characteristic of their dark parents. Maybe if they have more than 50% of surface elves blood it lookes different. who know? As for my source of information -- look further.

 

Or where you got that... very non-drow looking image of a Faerunian elf-drow crossbreed

Actually the official images are NEVER right. Look at Liriel. She has brown skin. Drows don't have *brown* skin, nor blue, but BLACK. But that is not important;p.

 

Or that either. 'Glowing eyes' do not equal 'red irises' necessarily.

Yeah, that is what I meant. They are often mistaken;)

 

Though that wouldn't mean their eyes would be 'red' or 'glowing' on the surface

Of course. Actually, the light on the surface is so birght for dark elves, even in night, that they don't have to use infravision (we are talking about drows of Underdark, now, the ones that live on the surface for long enough don't count in it)

 

Yeah. Well that's like saying a native Peruvian's eyes shouldn't be any different from a native Swede's eyes. Only worse, because we're talking about completely different subraces, not just different branches of the human race.

Every race bores some characteristics similar for different kinds, for elves that would be such things like pointed ears, slim figure OR various color of eyes. Every human for example, both Peruvian and Swede have two legs and a head;p. Don't mistake human racial features for elven -- for elves the eye features are a racial ones, for human - not necessary;p.

 

Anyway, all that aside... I'm wondering what benefit a drow would get for trying to pass himself off as a half-drow (whether the other half be human or elven). That's kinda like an orc trying to pass himself off as a half-orc. I'm not saying it's not possible - I'm just asking why. Wouldn't those who hate or distrust drows also distrust those with obvious drow blood?

You are right and it may be obvious for surfacers too, but for a newcomer drow? Perhaps he thought that it would be easier for him -- and to some point was right, but still, he was a 'part' drow and... And

 

As for my sources, yes, some of the novels are indeed a point of reference because the writers are the ones who create a world of FR, in fact. Salvatore or Cunninghan are pretty much a canon of FR knowledge. Besides, rules (and other things, often) are changing with every edition, and some of the changes are pretty more drastic that existence of half-drow. Anyway, the answer for 'from where did you got THAT' is - from the DD 'specialist' of elven race, Elaine Cunningham and her "Evermeet - the island of elves' which is pretty much a history book of elven race of FR, and accepted by WotC (You should read it if you want to discuss the matter further). That, and the DD rule book -- don't remember where/which one exactly.

 

 

However I am not a fan of FR novels. They are poorly writen when compared to my favourites authors, so I just read them to have them read. But that's offtopic.

 

And yes, I really think we should end this discussion at this point because nothing of it is helpful for Domi's mod -- it's just one big offtop. So, if ou *really* feel like you should answer my post and have the last word (;p) I advice you to use the PM:). I will eventually participate (not gladly, because I do not wish to discuss that further (pretty tired in the moment, besides it's pointless) and won't post in this topic anymore, but I will). And now good day to you -- I should do some work here....

 

Thank you for the discussion, anyway:).

[Domi]

Anyway, all that aside... I'm wondering what benefit a drow would get for trying to pass himself off as a half-drow (whether the other half be human or elven). That's kinda like an orc trying to pass himself off as a half-orc. I'm not saying it's not possible - I'm just asking why. Wouldn't those who hate or distrust drows also distrust those with obvious drow blood?

 

Half-drow is a slight advantage on drow especially if he manages a sobbing story (my mother was raped by evil drow) - at least he might get a chance to tell a sobbing story over a drow who will be attacked out right.

 

The drow screams - I don't beolong on the surface. The half-drow says "I just might."

 

He has no means (a-la Drizzt) to completely change his appearance, so he uses simple cosmetical changes to the best of his abilities. The simpler, the better as far as I am concerned.

 

The Complete Book of Elves, btw does not say that half-drow took after one parent or another. Rather they have various shades of skin color and various color of their hair etc, so I'll go with that. FR lore allows for a lot of wiggling room.

[Miloch]

(You should read it if you want to discuss the matter further).

Cunningham started to write FR novels around 1991 (with Elfshadow). Salvatore maybe around 1988 with the IWD books. Neither of them 'created' the Forgotten Realms, which were already an old idea when they got to it. The best they can hope for is to be 'contributors' to the FR material. Salvatore himself admits in his introduction to Darkwalker of Moonshae (Douglas Niles, 1987) that he had no idea what the FR were when Mary Kirchoff at TSR first asked him to write for them, and that he borrowed a lot of his ideas from Niles initially. Niles in turn most likely got most of his material from the FR Campaign Set itself. Cunningham came into the scene after both Salvatore and Niles. Being as how all the authors are writing about a world not of their own devising, they're the ones who have the responsibility to stay true to their source material, not the other way around. And if they get it wrong, that's 'artistic license', which they can get away with to some extent, I suppose.

 

So I hope you're not suggesting I need to read Cunningham's books to discuss Faerunian elves or drow. I'm not a huge fan of the novels either, for precisely the same reasons as yours (though I am trying to read the Niles books - trying, anyhow). I also hope you're not suggesting I stop posting in this topic. I suppose Domi could lock and/or delete any of my posts as she pleases, but that's her prerogative, not yours (unless I missed the post where she made you her thread police ).

 

Anyhow, that all might be off-topic, but I don't think my original question was. The portrait got me interested in the mod, so I simply asked how effective this guy's disguise is, particularly since it's reflected in the portrait. No need to rip my throat out over it. I might dispute the authenticity of some of your claims, but it's a free press (I think), and I'm not out on some sort of flame war or crusade to have the 'last word' (like I said above, I *was* content to let even Gorilym have it ).

 

@Domi - thanks for the explanation. My half-orc character has a similar story (though he is a half-orc after all, not a full orc, and doesn't have a disguise, but it's the story that counts). The Complete Book of Elves is a decent source, though it's been a while since I've dusted it off.

[Domi]

There will be no obligatory Cunningham or Salvatore reading! But you all have a choice of Martin or Kay.