Hmm, Faerun does not have a deity of freedom?

[BigRob]

Everyone seems to have covered the major candidates, but Lathander, as god of new beginnings might also qualify.

 

It would probably depend on the nature of the organisation worshiping the deity.

[Miloch]

What, no one's mentioned Gruumsh?

 

Erm, ok, maybe not. Ilmater fits the bill somewhat, especially since inspired by Fritz Leiber's Issek of the Jug, who was a god standing for freedom of those unjustly punished and enslaved. But also a peaceful god for the most part. Tyr being essentially unchanged from the Norse god of justice might be better for non-pacifist types.

 

Original inspiration for the Faerunian gods

[Kelenthial]

You are not the only one to have this problem, Domi. I had it too and decided to solve it creatively - and created a goddess of freedom by myself refering to the D&D rules. She is a greater deity because, just how you noticed, she is practically alone in this domain and because the link which is created between her an those who worship her is quite... special. She is also goddes of individualism, invention, mystery, understanding and few other things, which are not important for this topic and very spoiler-ish for the history I am working on . She is kinda 'hidden' goddess because she likes to remain in shadows (and does not reveal herself to the people as a majority), and allows the worship only for the ones she finds worthy -- the major test for someone who wants to do that is to find her name -- and only her followers and some 'special people' know it; some may call it a strange manner, but she grants her followers great deal of her attention and 'help' (because of her domain/character she is more like a immortal 'friend'/ally then a classic superior - blind floowing binds and worshiping a deity itself is often an acy of limitation) --they are never truly alone in their struggles. She is reffered as "The Black Harper", "Lady of the Lalfshadow" or "Lady Silent Voice" and sometimes "Lay of Freedom" because of her appearance, attitude and domain. Some say that she is one of gods of neutrality but actually her alignment is neutral good (in direction of neutral). She remains neutral to all of the conflicts between other gods (end every other creatures in the planes although she dislikes all of the races <especially illithids> that practise slavery, which is <logically> the worse sin in her eyes) as long as they not endanger her or those she grantes with her grace. She remains in loose alliance (more like 'is fond of', 'has positive relations') with some of the Powers in planes, mostly with gods of wisdom, knowledge and understanding. She is said to have one of the most beautiful voices in all of the planes.

She is complicated deity and a difficult one to follow, at the beginning.

 

However, she is my creation -- in the classic DD there is no god or goddess of this matter... So I doubt my post will be of any help;/ Perhaps you could create some god (demigod/quasi-deity, if only for the aspect of freedom) yourself for your purpose? This *is* posible and remains in conformity with dd rules.

 

Tyr, Ilmater and Torm are all gods of servitude and loyalty as a Threesome (/Trinity? not a native English speaker, no clue) so they are out of the question as a deity of freedom. BTW: no other lawful deity may be taken in consideration because it is *freedom* we are talking about and law always limits - in one way or another.

 

Lathander is a good choice indeed:) Although he is not free of prejudices... Surely better than any other god in realms -- the best choice, I guess.

 

Liira is, well, a little to merry and she concentrates more on other things, freedom is more like an add-on to her domain, which she helds because no other god does. Another thing is that to be a deity of freedom is hard and often ungrateful task, and gods are usually very selfish. There is also that thin line one must not cross -- worship is limiting also, in a way. But this is philosophy and have nothing to do with the quetion you asked (although much with the creation I spoke about in the beginning - I was very careful to not overstep this line i designing).

 

God of revenge cannot be god of freedom, because (pure) hatred is the most blinding and binding of all, and revenging/avenging is not an act of freedom but the on of limitation.

[NiGHTMARE]

A Lawful person (or deity) doesn't neccessary always obey the law and always follow the rules; what the Lawful alignment means is they are methodical, logical, well-organized, and unlikely to lose self-control.

 

Ilmater and Tyr are certainly not gods of servitude; the only things or beings their worshippers serve are their god, their superiors in the church, and the legitimate ruler(s) of the land (but *only* if said ruler is perceived as good and just), but the first two of these is the same of almost all faiths, and the latter of almost all good and neutral faiths. Even followers of Torm do not blindly follow all orders; the obedience aspect of his portfolio is more like honor and valor, i.e. obeying the wishes of their superior even in the face of great danger. They do not and will not follow orders, or obey masters, that are evil and unjust.

 

BTW, the portfolio of invention is already taken, by Gond. I'm also curious to know what Mystra, commonly known in the Realms as "the Lady of Mysteries" would think of your new deity . And since the power of the gods directly depends on on many worshippers they have, it seems rather unlikely your deity would be a Greater Power; she would more likely be a Lesser Power at best.

[berelinde]

If this is a personal PnP campaign in a Forgotten Realms setting, a DM created deity can be as powerful as he or she likes, though.

[NiGHTMARE]

True, but it's always best for a DM to remain logical and consistent (especially within an established gameworld), otherwise he or she is likely to attract complaints from his/her players . If this deity is a Greater Power despite having a limited number of worshippers, it's best to explain why that is so, and why the other gods aren't busy complaining to Ao about it.

[berelinde]

Sorry, Domi, for hijacking the thread.

 

@NiGHTMARE: I plan to quote you next gaming session, and see how that sits with the DM. It certainly never occured to any of us to question where he was getting these deities from. Probably not the best idea: he's likely to say "You don't like it? Fine! You DM," and *then* I'll be in trouble.

[Kelenthial]

Heh, I understand your objections, Nightmare. Forgive me that I am not more communicative/comprehensible but discussing anything in English in a long-winged way is still very hard for me... As for your questions:

 

A Lawful person (or deity) doesn't neccessary always obey the law and always follow the rules; what the Lawful alignment means is they are methodical, logical, well-organized, and unlikely to lose self-control.

You are both right and wrong:) Of course all you have written is true, BUT the thing is that even though lawful person might not always obey the law he/she respect it and the idea of it and is distrusful/not fond of chaos -- being a lawful person means that you *do* take a side in the eternal law-chaos strugle. If you do not, you are neutral. And neutral persons can be too 'methodical, logical, well-organized, and unlikely to lose self-control' which are virtues of 'lawfulness' but they also can use all of the means of chaos. However, the DD alignment system is very often undermined by different people in different discussion and everybody seems to have his/hers own idea about it, so we should stay in the basics, and the basics are: law and chaos are opposites and siding with any is limiting by nature.

 

 

About Tyr, Torm or Ilmater -- of course you are right, but see above;) Another thing is that I am not fond of any of them (Ilmater is a little better, but still...) so everything I would say in this subject would be very IMO.

 

 

BTW, the portfolio of invention is already taken, by Gond. I'm also curious to know what Mystra, commonly known in the Realms as "the Lady of Mysteries" would think of your new deity

Heh. That actually made me laugh;) But in the good meaning of this word, no offence meant;) You *must* know that gods often share portofios, right? And that the first 2 ones are the most important (in her case freedom and individualism) and the rest is just a supplement depending on character/special powers of the deity? Besides, there is a fact of different alignment. Let's see: for example we have 2 gods of magic - the first one being god of magic, knowledge and evil and the second - magic, knowledge and good. Even though their domains are alike they still are different deities whom different people will chose to worship. And I agree that they wouldn't probably be very fond of each other;). Besides, every race has different gods, for example: Hanali Celanil is elven counterpart of Sune - they have nearly 100% of their portfolios identical.

And no, the Black Harper is no human goddess, though her followers recruit from different races and are not limited by the sucject, she appears always as a creature she is believed to come from. And no, she is not willing to share her full history, even with me --stubborn creatureXD have you ever had this fealing when you create some character and then she/he just starts to live his/hers own life in your mind without even looking at what you would like them to be?XD

Besides - the secrets and mysteries (the unrevealed ones, though) are the main portfolio of Shar, along with shadows and lost; Mystra is told to be rather goddess of arcane mysteries than the mysteries at all. But that is not important.

 

And since the power of the gods directly depends on on many worshippers they have, it seems rather unlikely your deity would be a Greater Power; she would more likely be a Lesser Power at best.

Since freedom itself is a *very* specifical portfolio and a goddess I have in mind is rather..unique... that is not quite true. Besides, I have example I can refer too - power of the Uncaring One is not limited by his followers. Lord of All Magics (my god in my DD campany, btw; ) seems to gain power from the mere *existence* of magic and its use in the multiverse. He is probably the major god of this portfolio in the multiverse and sohe can afford that;) Its similar in the case of the Black Harper - because there *are* 'free spirits' in the multiverse, and besides them many mortals *believe* in her domain, she remains powerful. It is the thing with planescape -- faith from Prime Material 'goes' to the outer planes and gives them the strenght to exist. Gods remain in the OP because that is the place when their power is biggest, where the faith of their followers gather. In the case of freedom, as there is no other god/goddess (we know of/so we can assume) who holds that domain every piece of the mortal faith puted in the belief of freedom is gathered around the Black Harper, even if the ones who grants her power are unaware of this (and that is quite common in FR - some times priests aren't even sure which god/goddess grants them their powerXD). It is the mechanics of the Planes;) Yes, I AM planescape fanatic. So I am rather sure of what I am talking about... Even if the theory I have written here is a very simple version of the Plane rules -- as I said, me and English^^'.

Oh, and besides Planescape is quite flexible. So even if I was going against the rules but could still put it logically without mary-sue'ing it would be acceptedXD Faith is the thing that shapes Planes...

 

If this deity is a Greater Power despite having a limited number of worshippers, it's best to explain why that is so, and why the other gods aren't busy complaining to Ao about it.

 

I could explain, but I would have to tell her story here -- and that would be both very offtopic AND spoiler'ish for the story I was mentionign before

 

BTW, Nightmare, you want Domi to come back and find all those offtopic posts in her threat?XD Not to mention that The Mods would eat us alive;>

[Domi]

Interesting offtop never bothered anyone on G3 too much, so don't worry.

 

The whole debate is very informative, and after looking at all pro's and contra's, and seeing I can't go ahead and invent a deity, I think I'll keep with Tyr, as long as it is not a prerequisite to be LG, it's enough to be G.

 

Ilmater is an unexact fit, no matter if we enjoy or endure suffering; the character deeply rejects suffering (but arn't happy enough for Lliira). So it just does not work for me (apart from an instinctual dislike of this deity from BG1 times, when they had this silly priest of Ilmater there).

 

I also can't go with neutral deities, I need a good one.

 

Shaundakul does not work for me for personal reasons, because I have two characters that spoke of him in other mods (Kivan and Valygar), so I want someone different (unless I am making a clear-cut worshipper of Shaundakul). I can't just make every good-aligned male a worshipper of Shaundakul. I already have a Lathandrite, so the same goes for Lathander.

 

Which kindda leaves me with Tyr, which is not all that bad, seeing Tyr is Maimed, which part at least works very well with the char.