Balancing issues

[Baum]

Some things I noticed:

 

1. Gold / Prices

 

Prices for everything seem to be much higher in IWD2. A scroll of resurrection costs more than 20,000 gold! I wasn't able to equip my party in Easthaven, because I didn't have the gold.

 

2. Experience

 

When I got to Kuldahar in IWD1, all of my 5 party members were at level 3. Now they are only at level 2 and will stay there for some time longer.

 

3. Various monsters

 

- Goblin / Orc archers have become easier, beause their arrows do less damage.

- Wolfs have become much more difficult and give much less XP.

- The beetles at the Kuldahar pass, too.

- Yetis are a challenge, to say the least.

- Skeletons seem to be immune to any but blunt damage. That's a bit unfair, I'm really having problems with them.

 

That's all for now. I'll add more, if I can beat those skeletons...

[FredSRichardson]

Thank you for the fine work!

 

Some things I noticed:

 

1. Gold / Prices

 

Prices for everything seem to be much higher in IWD2. A scroll of resurrection costs more than 20,000 gold! I wasn't able to equip my party in Easthaven, because I didn't have the gold.

I didn't have this problem starting with one of the pre-made parties, but for some reason they start with a lot of gold. I think the problem is between the starting gold and the costs of things. I'll see if I can figure out what the cost of things was like in IWD1 (I think there you could get more gold early on from questing, but I'm not sure).

2. Experience

 

When I got to Kuldahar in IWD1, all of my 5 party members were at level 3. Now they are only at level 2 and will stay there for some time longer.

Thank you for this. Yes, I noticed my party was under leveled in Kuldahar. I'm playing through IWD1 now with a full party to see if I can track the progression. I'd love to know the party levels for various areas in IWD2 as well (so that I can gage monster difficulty).

3. Various monsters

 

- Goblin / Orc archers have become easier, beause their arrows do less damage.

- Wolfs have become much more difficult and give much less XP.

- The beetles at the Kuldahar pass, too.

- Yetis are a challenge, to say the least.

- Skeletons seem to be immune to any but blunt damage. That's a bit unfair, I'm really having problems with them.

 

That's all for now. I'll add more, if I can beat those skeletons...

The goblin archers are a straight copy from IWD2, but there are different versions of them. The ones in Easthaven match the ones in the doc area (of IWD2). The ones you meet in Kuldahar pass may be too weak, I'm not sure.

 

The Orc's from the cave in Easthaven are also Goblin's. I found them to be too tough otherwise.

 

You mean the wolves just out of Easthaven? I copied the IWD2 Worg's for those, they should be about right for a level 1 party, but maybe not.

 

I thought the beetles were okay, but I'll look into those again. Maybe if the party had another level.

 

You mean the skeleton's and yeti's in the vale, yes? Those need some work. Any monster I haven't weaked by hand is going to be too powerful (due to Wes Weimers creature conversion algorithm heh). Unfortunately, I can't think of a really good way to do the automatic conversion that's better than what Wes has there, so some hand balancing has to be done when I can't simply replace an IWD1 creature with one from IWD2.

 

Thank you for this very helpful feedback!

 

-Fred

[FredSRichardson]

Okay, I just checked out the docks in IWD2. There's a lot of loot strewed around (armor and weapons), so that's probably why there's isn't much starting gold. I'll see what I can do about that.

[Baum]

I didn't have this problem starting with one of the pre-made parties, but for some reason they start with a lot of gold. I think the problem is between the starting gold and the costs of things. I'll see if I can figure out what the cost of things was like in IWD1 (I think there you could get more gold early on from questing, but I'm not sure).

 

I think the pre-made partys start with their own equipment. Custom made characters start with only a quarterstaff.

 

Thank you for this. Yes, I noticed my party was under leveled in Kuldahar. I'm playing through IWD1 now with a full party to see if I can track the progression. I'd love to know the party levels for various areas in IWD2 as well (so that I can gage monster difficulty).

 

Some of the monsters seem to give much less XP for killing them. The XP reward for quests seems to be the same - unless in IWD1 the reward is given per character instead of the whole party.

 

The goblin archers are a straight copy from IWD2, but there are different versions of them. The ones in Easthaven match the ones in the doc area (of IWD2). The ones you meet in Kuldahar pass may be too weak, I'm not sure.

 

The Orc's from the cave in Easthaven are also Goblin's. I found them to be too tough otherwise.

 

It's the arrows that have become less dangerous, not the creatures themselves.

 

You mean the wolves just out of Easthaven? I copied the IWD2 Worg's for those, they should be about right for a level 1 party, but maybe not.

 

And the one in the house in Eashaven. I'm not sure, if these are Worgs, in my game they're called "Vhougtans Hund" or something like that, but I don't know the English name...

 

I thought the beetles were okay, but I'll look into those again. Maybe if the party had another level.

 

Well, it was not that a dramatic change. Just leave them that way. They're still beetable.

 

You mean the skeleton's and yeti's in the vale, yes?

 

Yes. The skeletons are really a problem, because only my cleric has a blunt weapon and they're quite immune to anything else (except magic).

[ronin69hof]

My custom party of 6 all started with just a quarterstaff and I hardly had any money to purchase anything.

 

Baum is right, the skeleton's and yeti's are a royal pain in the real. The rest of the things he mentions I can also vouch for.

 

ronin

[FredSRichardson]

Okay, thank you both for the feedback. The message is coming in loud 'n clear.

 

The skellies and yeti are going to be tough until I either (a) fix Wes Weimers CRE "mutation" routines, (b) replace them with something appropriate from IWD2 or © create some by hand.

 

I should be clear that I haven't addressed the Vale at all, I'm surprised that it didn't just crash your game

 

The "Vhougtans Hund" may have been a poor choice for the Easthaven wolf. I'll try to replace that with something more appropriate (maybe another Worg).

 

If one of you guys is up to it, try taking a look at STARTGOLD.2DA in IWD2. As far as I can figure, this gives the starting gold in terms of dice (something like 5D4 or so) and then a multiplier. IWD2 has tons of loot strewed around the place at the very beginning (armor and weapons), so I think a gold boost is appropriate for the conversion.

 

I'm open to suggestions for this

 

-Fred

[Baum]

I should be clear that I haven't addressed the Vale at all, I'm surprised that it didn't just crash your game

 

In fact, it does. See the "Game crash" thread.

 

If one of you guys is up to it, try taking a look at STARTGOLD.2DA in IWD2. As far as I can figure, this gives the starting gold in terms of dice (something like 5D4 or so) and then a multiplier. IWD2 has tons of loot strewed around the place at the very beginning (armor and weapons), so I think a gold boost is appropriate for the conversion.

 

I'm open to suggestions for this

 

I think the problem is the starting equipment. If you take one of the pre-made parties, you will always be in advantage because of the stuff they already have. A custom made party shouldn't start worse. So modifying the starting gold in general won't solve that problem - unless you can modify it according to whether a custom party is made or one of the pre-made is chosen.

[Grand_Dracolich]

Or you could give them some starting equipment based on class and proficiencies. (Wow, even *I* know that that's gonna be a chore, if not a downright impossibility)

[FredSRichardson]

Heh, yeah, I think you're right. It'd be almost a mini mod to poll through the party members and generate items for their inventory based on class and proficiencies (if your fighter invests all of hist slots in a greatsword, he doesn't want to end up with an halbard).

 

Another approach which is simple might be to have random some littered in easy to find places. A few chests in the alehouse, or maybe in the basement with the beetles.

 

Starting gold is probably the best short term fix. There are very big fires up ahead, so I don't want to get too bogged down on this. Just so long as you guys can play the beginning parts through without it being a royal pain or too many console commands to get through.

 

-Fred

[ronin69hof]

You could edit the .cre's from the premade parties and strip them of everything except a quarterstaff, then up the starting gold for the game.

 

its just an idea

 

ronin

[FredSRichardson]

Well, I think I should point out that the situation is the same in IWD2. That is, if you play a pre-made party you start off with a lot more stuff. The main difference is that IWD2 has a ton of loot on the ground in the docks area.

 

So there are a few different solutions. One is to pump up the starting gold (this is the closest thing to the way IWD1 works), another is to put the loot in some easy to find place that seems "Easthaven Appropriate" (maybe in houses, this idea still seems weird to me), a more difficult solution is to add a mod that determines each character type and adds items to the inventory automatically (I'd rather not have to code this), and finally we could just put more stuff on the Goblins or strewn about the Goblin cave (that may be too late to be useful).

 

I'd go for more starting gold. The pre-made parties don't really bother me, if you don't like them, just edit the party .INI file in your game directory

[ronin69hof]

Then I agree with just upping the gold.

 

ronin

[Baum]

Yes, that's the best solution for now.

[Grand_Dracolich]

Yeah, I'm for more starting gold too. If you can do the starting equipment, then that would be good too (kidding ).

[Grand_Dracolich]

Yeah, I'm for more starting gold too. If you can do the starting equipment, then that would be good too (kidding ).