Ye gods! *puke*

[Eleima]

I read a bit of both the before and after dialog while picking through files a while back...and then I got curious and checked the items with Shadowkeeper...

Who in their right mind would even think of making him do THAT?

 

I don't know who, but one thing I'm certain of is that the girl who have the guts to let Gavin do ***that** to himself sure doesn't deserve him!

 

Ick. Poor thing...

 

Curiosity made me delve into this option of the dialog, but from a RP perspective, I'm not sure what kind of character would make their betrothed do that to himself. A chaotic evil PC? And Gavin being a cleric of Lathander, wouldn't he be utterly repulsed by that kind of reckless, law-scorning, cruel, brutal character? I just think the poor sweetie deserves better!

 

Still, you've got courage to allow the PC to give that kind of response.

Still, even if I had asked him for some form of proof of trust, I'd have thrown myself under the axe before I'd let him do that...

[berelinde]

Thanks, guys, but there's another kind of PC who would take it that far: the gambler. She wants to see how far she can push her lover, and is willing to risk losing him to find out.

 

Chances are good that this lover has already pushed Gavin's offense index pretty far, so this is likely to be the final straw. The dialogue choices that get you to that point require that the pc be a risk-taker and that she be tenacious in the extreme. That is a dangerous combination in general where safety-loving Gavin is concerned, so she's likely to have offended him plenty already.

 

Gavin doesn't leave automatically because he knows that even the wisest person can have one lapse in judgment. If she's been his ideal woman up to that point, and just needs a bit of sacrifice on his part to keep it going, he isn't going to moan about it. For a man in his profession, the long-term consequences of his decision are nil.

 

A PC who has chosen this option will be in a weaker position if she demands an act of contrition after his outburst over the Bhaal discovery.

 

@Miloch: yeah, they're seeing your BAMs.

[Kulyok]

When I got to this dialogue, I was a bit shocked, too: by this point, I was a bit concerned about Gavin's sister Reed - I admit, after he said I was to wear the engagement ring made by her, I started to suspect I'll end up as poor Heather Mills, with Reed as Stella McCartney. As Mironov said in his immortal phrase, "If you have to marry, marry an orphan".

 

So I wouldn't mind if there was a way to get rid of her rings, really, or to have a chance to tell her to back off Gavin a bit, but, um, not *that* one.

 

I, too, cannot believe that a good character who's roleplaying his alignment properly will do this. Though they might convince themselves there's a reason - such as the ring being cursed, for example. Maybe...

[berelinde]

Sorry, not well-read enough to get the name references.

 

I wasn't thrilled with the engagement ring, either, but I couln't think of another way to get the ring in Gavin's hands. He has very little of his own money, and a ring like that would be valuable. He would not spend party treasure on it. These things considered, it stays the way it is.

 

I am not substituting a ring that would justify a lower price tag. With Ajantis, it bugs me that I'd have to take up a ring slot for something that does nothing. If the PC has to have a ring, and I believe she does, the ring should be good enough to justify using a slot for it. So, it needs an enchantment, which is expensive. Since he hasn't got the money to pay for it, and since mysterious benefactors are no more likely in Faerun than they are on Earth, his sister is going to make it for him. It isn't any more creepy than giving her a ring that once graced the hand of, say, his mother. Actually, it's significantly less creepy than that. Odd, but that custom is generally considered perfectly legit.

 

As for the events related to the other ring, a good PC roleplaying her alignment probably wouldn't see that option. It's got a whole lot of chances to change your mind, and even if you stumble across the dialogue path leading to it, you can still stop him at the last minute by saying "Stop!" with no hesitation. But, this is treated the same way as any other non-good decision: it offends him. Offend him enough, he'll leave. But not over an isolated incident.

 

This is the PC's chance to rub his nose in it, so to speak. He has been dishonest with her in the past, through a sin of omission. This is her chance to remind him that she no longer believes everything he says. Under those circumstances, he has no choice but to follow through.

[Kulyok]

Sorry, not well-read enough to get the name references.

 

That's "not bad-read enough": not reading about the ex-Beatle's divorce can only do you credit.

 

Personally, I think two items in the original game, Jaheira's locket and Anomen's ring are the best romantic items in the game, despite them having no magical properties. Especially since Jaheira gives the locket back to the PC each time she leaves the party(quest item flag).

 

 

My problem with Reed is that she seems too close to Gavin for a sibling of the other gender. (And PC's dislike/jealousy could provoke this rather horrible action, too, come to think of it). If PC had a brother with whom they were so close, Anomen could well have an alpha-male conflict with him, so a female PC romancing Gavin might well run into a catfight with Reed, but there was no opportunity provided. Maybe BG2?

 

(EDIT: typos. Horrible, horrible ones.)

[berelinde]

Hmmm. Maybe. I hadn't planned on a BG2 appearance for her, but I did put her in an adventuring party headed south to deal with some stuff, didn't I? It might be interesting for the two women to have a verbal sparring match, especially if Gavin's given the PC the second ring, too. Give the PC a chance to tell Reed what she thinks about her relationship to her brother, one way or the other. Or not. I'm not sure if I want her to be a recurring character, so I'm going to need to think about it.

 

I think I will include a PID option to give back the engagement ring. The PC should be able to say that she still wants to be married to him, but doesn't want that particular ring. I can't promise he'll accept it back, because he's more stubborn than I am, but he won't insist that she wear it, won't object to her selling it, and might offer to buy her a ring more to her liking. Pick a store, prolly in Nashkel, add a handful of non-magical rings in different colors, and she can pick out her own.

 

Edit: Many people are close to their siblings of either gender. He's close to Reed and Jolun about equally, and quite distant from Gordon and Della. Yet Gordon is Lanie's godfather. You only find this out in the friendship path. This makes sense because Gavin might not like Gordon as much as he likes Jolun, but Gordon would be a better father should anything happen him. I'm not sure I want to raise the possibility that there is anything unnatural in the relationship between Gavin and Reed. I'd get ick fits writing it. Besides, Gavin is friendly toward Reed's long-term romantic interest, but you only find that out if Ajantis gets the girl.

[berelinde]

Oddly enough, Anomen has a sister of whom he is inordinately fond. He speaks of her several times before her death. The events surrounding her murder are enough to provoke a crisis of faith in Anomen. That's pretty close. Of course, I am not sure I want Anomen to be a role model, here.

[Kulyok]

I'm not sure I want to raise the possibility that there is anything unnatural in the relationship between Gavin and Reed. I'd get ick fits writing it.

 

Yuck. That's horrible. Nah, I'd really not like *that*, either. It's general "You're too close to your sister, when in reality you're supposed to be closer to me, your wife - if you want a healthy marriage, your wife should be your best friend!" thingy. And I guess some PCs would go ballistic at finding out Gavin told his sister about the engagement before he told PC herself. Or, even worse, if Gavin was discussing their relationship in detail with Reed.

 

Besides, Gavin is friendly toward Reed's long-term romantic interest, but you only find that out if Ajantis gets the girl.

 

Oooh! Ajantis gets who? Reed or PC?

 

 

By the way, do godfathers exist on Faerun? (Now, where is NiGHTMARE when we need him...)

[Kulyok]

Well, Moira seems to be a nicer person than Reed - she didn't equip her brother with an unremovable ring. 'Sides, it's much more easier to feel sympathetic towards a dead character than toward a living one, cynical as it may sound.

[berelinde]

I don't see why I couldn't include a "You told your sister about your plans to propose before you told me?!" To which he'd say "Oops. Sorry about that. I guess I've still got a lot to learn about loving a woman with as much strength of character as you. This is all very new to me, and there really is no one like you."

 

Ajantis gets the PC. Reed's involved with someone else

 

Edit: Moira's also younger than Anomen, which makes a difference. Making Reed older than Gavin and more powerful than Gavin puts her and their relationship in a very different light. I kind of like that, because it upsets the traditional "I am the man, and therefore I must protect you" stereotype. I hate the weak sister cliche.

[Ajnos]

Not to continue to rag on poor Reed, but one of my irks with Gavin was when he casually asides that regarding the newly discovered Bhaalspawnness "She [Reed] probably already knows." I missed a "What?!" response for my PC.

 

Unless, it has been changed... why on earth would she know? Did he send her a postcard before talking about it with the PC? I don't care if the family knows, they should, it's the flippant 'oh, she knows already' that bugged me.

 

 

Edited: Typo

[berelinde]

What?! How did that sneak in there? I seriously doubt that is what I meant, although I don't remember it at all now.

 

Time to edit that whole LT. But not right now. I need to go to work.

 

 

Edit: come to think of it, given the timeline for that whole thing, the PC can't possibly know about her Bhaalspawnness (I like that word) when Gavin proposes. If she (the PC) knew at that point, the relationship would be over already. That's probably legacy code from when I originally meant the relationship to continue regardless of whether or not Gavin knew she was a Bhaalspawn. In other words, I should take that line out, but it should not ever come up in conversation.

[Ajnos]

What?! How did that sneak in there? I seriously doubt that is what I meant, although I don't remember it at all now.

 

Time to edit that whole LT. But not right now. I need to go to work.

 

 

Edit: come to think of it, given the timeline for that whole thing, the PC can't possibly know about her Bhaalspawnness (I like that word) when Gavin proposes. If she (the PC) knew at that point, the relationship would be over already. That's probably legacy code from when I originally meant the relationship to continue regardless of whether or not Gavin knew she was a Bhaalspawn. In other words, I should take that line out, but it should not ever come up in conversation.

 

 

Maybe I imagined it? I've looked through the .d files since I last played. I could've sworn it was in around the second to last talks (vows), but I can't even find it now (v1.1). How embarrassing.

[Kulyok]

Yes, I remember I saw it when I was browsing through the files. Here:

 

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN BGavLT18.1a.5a

SAY ~They won't care who your father was. Dad will think you said your father was bald, and Mum loves everybody just the same, so it won't matter to them. Reed probably already knows. But don't take my word for it! Let's pay them a call if we can, and you can see for yourself.~

IF ~~ THEN EXIT

END

[berelinde]

Oh, I don't question for a moment that it is there! After the reminder, I remembered that it was there, and where it was. My point is that the only people who will ever see this are those that read the .d, not those who played the mod.

 

The path that leads there will never come up. In order to see this, the PC would have to know she was the daughter of Bhaal. If this becomes public knowledge before Gavin proposes, Gavin will break up with her. He has a child to think about, and he just isn't ready to introduce his daughter to her stepmother, the offspring of the god of murder. If he has already proposed, he will not break up with the PC, though, because he won't go back on his word. He'll be anxious, but he won't let the PC know that (at least not in BG1...).

 

Originally, I had planned to allow Gavin's romance to continue despite this knowledge. He, personally could not care less, which is why a form of the romance will be available in BG2. Presumably, by then he will be more comfortable with the PC's ability to control her own destiny and master the taint of her blood. Of course, if he witnesses the slayer transformation before he does propose, all bets will be off.

 

But in BG1, this is all big news to him, and if he has not proposed already, he never will, so the question about how Reed knew about the PC being the spawn of Bhaal before Gavin did will never arise. LT18 follows the morning after LT17. There is no time in between to go to Candlekeep.

 

But I will take it out of the .d just to avoid reports of psychic siblings from people who read ahead.