Eirik's Saga

[berelinde]

All right, if it's time for relevant commentary that doesn't involve goading Miloch, the only thing that bugs me is that Branwen comes across as a bit of a Joan of Arc. By making her follow the promptings of her vision to put a stop to the petty wars that never end, never have a victor, and therefore displease Tempus, she takes on a bit of a messianic role.

 

I can see her feeling the call to serve Tempus, and I can see her believing that the best way to serve him would be to follow the path you outline, but I would prefer that she do this of her own volition, not through the implication that she is acting on divine urgings.

 

Presumably, everyone who becomes a priest or a paladin does discover that they have special favor with their god at some point, or else they would not become a priest or a paladin. Maybe they find they can do something normal children their age cannot do, or maybe they are called in a dream. But surely all of them are not on a mission direct from their gods. That was one of the problems I had with Saerileth. All priests and paladins are no doubt singled out to some degree, but not all of them are destined to be the worldly avatars of their gods. Branwen is following a genuine religious calling, but I'm not sure she's a saint.

[EiriktheScald]

Well I did say it looked good early on (and I think I was pretty much the only one in the thread who did). Once that's established, what else is there to do besides quibble over the mundane details? Unless of course, all you want to hear is "Nicely done, lad, that's smashing, carry on, etc." Personally I've never found that sort of feedback too useful, but that's me.

No, that's not what I'm talking about. Read on...

 

It also depends on how you plan to use this background in the game. It's obviously too long to stuff it all in the bio. So I could totally see Eirik lying, pardon me, using skaldic embellishment to tell some of this tale. But an intelligent PC should have a dialogue option to call him out on his claim of singlehandedly slaughtering dozens of pirate kings, or whatever it is. Whether he did actually do as he claims becomes a bit irrelevant at that point - it's the interaction that counts.

Me personally? It's crucial that I give Eirik a very plausible reason for showing up and for knowing Branwen. I cannot stress this enough. Why does his path cross the PC's? How is he linked to Branwen? It's no good to just plop him in the middle of the Coast Way and say "Here I am, I have no past whatsoever because I'm a 1st level character like youself. By the way, I'm looking for this blonde chick, have you seen her?" In summary: no story, no NPC. And neither am I satisfied with an easy way out (i.e. they grew up together). Also, I'm concerned that he not appear to be stalking Branwen (as someone else in this community pointed out). For this NPC to exist, I must answer two key questions: 1) Branwen did something to get her ejected from her society; how did she meet Eirik before that happened? and 2) What possible reason could Eirik have for going to such effort to find her? I appreciate those who say "write the story the way you want it." But if the story doesn't connect with others, then I haven't done my job. My question to the rest of you is, keeping all the stuff we're quibbling about aside, does the story affect you in any way? If not, then I haven't accomplished anything other than to say I created a mod (not my motivation). Take a photo, for example, a great photo should evoke an emotional response; it should pull you in. If it doesn't, then it's just eye candy.

[EiriktheScald]

All right, if it's time for relevant commentary that doesn't involve goading Miloch, the only thing that bugs me is that Branwen comes across as a bit of a Joan of Arc. By making her follow the promptings of her vision to put a stop to the petty wars that never end, never have a victor, and therefore displease Tempus, she takes on a bit of a messianic role.

But, it did evoke a response. Just not the one I hoped.

I can see her feeling the call to serve Tempus, and I can see her believing that the best way to serve him would be to follow the path you outline, but I would prefer that she do this of her own volition, not through the implication that she is acting on divine urgings.

If not divine, then I would think some other experience, or recognized need would motivate her.

Presumably, everyone who becomes a priest or a paladin does discover that they have special favor with their god at some point, or else they would not become a priest or a paladin. Maybe they find they can do something normal children their age cannot do, or maybe they are called in a dream. But surely all of them are not on a mission direct from their gods. That was one of the problems I had with Saerileth. All priests and paladins are no doubt singled out to some degree, but not all of them are destined to be the worldly avatars of their gods. Branwen is following a genuine religious calling, but I'm not sure she's a saint.

What exactly gave you that impression? Just because of the vision? I tried not to have her act saintly. Joan did not hide the fact that she was a woman and openly expressed her divine call.

[Miloch]

It's crucial that I give Eirik a very plausible reason for showing up and for knowing Branwen. I cannot stress this enough.

I agree, which is why I'm not disputing that part. I'm just quibbling over details (i.e. it's not necessary to have them slay a hundred raiders together when just a few or one would do), which should be a good thing, since I'm not suggesting the whole concept is rubbish.

Also, I'm concerned that he not appear to be stalking Branwen (as someone else in this community pointed out).

But... he is, isn't he?

My question to the rest of you is, keeping all the stuff we're quibbling about aside, does the story affect you in any way?

It bringeth an orcish tear to mine eye. Well, half an orcish tear maybe. But seriously, like I said, I'd have to see it more in a form as how it would appear in-game. Don't take this as criticism, but it is a summary of (quasi-)historical events, not so much a story or dialogue. As as a summary, I don't see any major faults with it (which again, is why I'm quibbling over details) so I'm encouraging expanding on it. Or not so much expanding on it - you don't necessarily need *more* content - but consider the PC will always be present, and how he/she'd interject into the story. And perhaps Branwen, if she's also around.

[berelinde]

OK, I'm going to footnote my argument so maybe you can see what I mean more clearly.

 

It was around 1357 when Branwen, then a youth of twelve winters, began to have visions of honored warriors felled in battle

How many visions, exactly. Most of the time, one is enough.

It was at this time that Branwen finally obeyed the orders of her spirit messengers to become a priestess, explaining that Tempus was angered by these petty wars; which remained unresolved with any clear victor. As a child, these visions had merely instructed her to "live honorably, and observe the feasts at the local temple;" but over the next several years they had persistently called for her to seek the local commander at Hammerstaad to escort her to the hall of the king. She finally obeyed in Mirtul of 1361, and found a way for a male kinsman to accompany her to Hammerstaad to speak with the commander; but he refused to listen to her, and bade she return home.

So now she’s getting visions *and* spirit messengers? And she knows what Tempus thinks? It almost sounds like she’s explaining the will of Tempus to his senior clergy, maybe, like in the stories about Jesus giving lessons at the temple.

 

But back to her bio:

When asked about her past, BRANWEN reveals that she left her home of Seawolf in the Norheim isles at an early age. She was apparently reviled by her own people for wanting to become a priest, a station reserved exclusively for the men of the village.

OK, no arguments. She wants to be a priest. But why? She might just like religion. No messengers, divine or otherwise, are mentioned. I’ll allow that she might have had a vision. It would be too hard a life to choose for no reason, especially since she knows it will be viewed unfavorably by her village. Or, it might be kind of like Yentl (please, don’t go near the whole Barbara Streisand thing), who wants to be closer to her god in a way forbidden to women. Her bio goes on to say

Despite the unfavorable outcome, Branwen feels that Tempus views her actions approvingly.

It says “Branwen feels†which is a far cry from knowing what does or does not anger her god.

But what if the warrior was a woman? Branwen, seeing her opportunity, got ready to leave alone with the gear and weapons of a man and made her way to where the scouts were and sailed with them, calling herself Brander.

OK, now she’s a cross between Joan of Arc and Eowyn.

 

She needs maybe a shade more anomynity.

[EiriktheScald]

Also, I'm concerned that he not appear to be stalking Branwen (as someone else in this community pointed out).

But... he is, isn't he?

What, Fatal Attraction? Can you think of a single saga with that theme? Isn't that a modern convention?

 

My question to the rest of you is, keeping all the stuff we're quibbling about aside, does the story affect you in any way?

It bringeth an orcish tear to mine eye. Well, half an orcish tear maybe. But seriously, like I said, I'd have to see it more in a form as how it would appear in-game. Don't take this as criticism, but it is a summary of (quasi-)historical events, not so much a story or dialogue. As as a summary, I don't see any major faults with it (which again, is why I'm quibbling over details) so I'm encouraging expanding on it. Or not so much expanding on it - you don't necessarily need *more* content - but consider the PC will always be present, and how he/she'd interject into the story. And perhaps Branwen, if she's also around.

My plan is to bring the PC up to speed on the current situation, with the more intimate (or surprising) details through dialog with Branwen. The PC can react to those as they are revealed.

[EiriktheScald]

She needs maybe a shade more anomynity.

 

You present a good argument up until the last. I wrestled with this one also. There has to be something different about her. If she always remains in the background, it becomes a question of "okay, she's so inconspicuous, that no one ever suspects the warrior is not a man." How then do you present a situation for her being exposed that does not seem contrived?

[berelinde]

OK, then, maybe keep the dressing as a man bit, but maybe back off a bit on her role as a visionary and messenger for her god. As it is with BG1 NPC, she might, and I do mean *might* need a bit more development. I believe you planned to require it, so there is no sense talking about Branwen without it.

 

Allowing her the degree of closeness to Tempus that you allow puts her over the top. Maybe back off just a bit? She had a vision that she was to be the first female priest of her vision. To achieve this end, she pursued her career to the Red King, etc. You can pare out a bit and tone it down, maybe talk about her fighting prowess instead, since she's bound to be good at that. As long as you don't make her combat ability a gift from Tempus.

[Guest Guest]

This was another idea I considered, but didn't use, maybe it's time to reconsider:

 

The custom of fosterage was once widespread among the Ffolk. It was considered most appropriate for parents to have their children raised by foster-parents once their children became a certain age (generally around 7). The children would live with their foster-parents until they reached the aimsir togu -- “the age of choice†-- 14 for a girl and 16 for a boy. At that age, they were free to determine their own course in life. This practice was so common, that those who weren’t brought up this way were considered an oddity.

 

However, mostly due to animosities between clans and cantrevs and a dwindling unity of the realm in general, fosterage, over time, fell out of favor and became less expected. Today, it's a practice that more closely resembles apprenticeship rather than actual child-rearing. Fostered children rarely leave the community in which they were born, and they often spend as much time with their real parents as they do with their foster-parents (who are usually blood relatives). Put simply, fosterage is generally a means for a child to learn a particular craft or trade, and those who aren’t raised this way are no longer viewed as being a peculiarity.

 

In recent decades, though, the old version of the custom has experienced a limited resurgence. Back in the old days, fostering had always been considered an acceptable way to strengthen ties between competing clans. Rival lairds would exchange their children as insurance against open conflict, which effectively made those children one step away from being hostages. This practice waned along with the overall diminishment of the custom, but ever since the Ffolk and the Northlanders were brought under one banner, it’s been taken up again by the nobility of both peoples. Northlander children of high standing get sent to Ffolk families of similar stature, and vise-versa. At first, this only happened at the insistence of the High Throne, but the advantages of it have since been realized, and now there is much competition to get a noble son or daughter placed in a particularly prominent home.

 

This is on the previously mentioned site Sourcebook: The Moonshaes I do not find this mentioned in any of the FR material. But I was discussing names with Miloch earlier, and we found it odd that a women from the northern islands would have a welsh (which would be more representative of the Ffolk) name.

[EiriktheScald]

Yes, I know.

[berelinde]

So, that guest would be Eirik the Modder?

[EiriktheScald]

I'm going to rethink this. Don't expect any mod release in the near future.

[berelinde]

Were you ready to release the mod, anyway?

[EiriktheScald]

I see the dialog as the biggest hurdle; without a solid storyline, I don't see it happening. After that I'll need to finish scripting and add a soundset; I believe that covers it. Anything I'm missing?

 

I'm taking a break.

[berelinde]

That about covers it. But it sounds so easy, when you put it like that.

 

And to think, I've already got the storyline for BG2 Gavin, so all I need are the dialogue, scripts, and voiced lines, and I'm done.