Demivrgvs

Augh...I'll implement it then. Might take 2-3 days for that.

 

Anyhow, Demi asked me to write sort of an introduction for this. I wrote 2 pages of text, then my computer crashed. I'll write it tonight, I need a long walk.

Well, 2 pages of text couldbe ok for a "list of changes" like the one I posted. Just try to summarize what's the idea behind the mod (pretty much what I already wrote) and what you did, aka that long list of changes turned into something much more easy to read. Also, I think your AI has a slightly different behaviour too (e.g. tries to burn through Deflections instead of always wait for a spell removal? less focus on defences and a bit more focus on offense? you know what you did better than me ) maybe it's worth spending a few lines on that too.

If you really want you could mention the eventual goals for future development (e.g. make SCS use more stuff from KR if detected? re-balance a few components like the much hated blood drain from vampires or beholder's anti-magic rays?). By working together we could try to get the most from every aspect.

Hi, Demi!

I'm going to finally try your latest SR v4/ beta 13 with Kreso's Revised SCS. But whilst installing it on latest EasyTuTu I've got multiple warnings.

It looks like something related to kreso's custom sec types. I'll ask him, but it's probably not something to worry about too much because it looks like the patching code simply skip editing those spl and itm files.

Btw, cool to see we already have quite a few players willing to test "B13 + Revised SCS".

I generally modify finger of death spell to kill my copy when counter finishes...

You waste a 7th lvl spell to kill an image few rounds before its duration expires?

Hi Demi. When i cast simulacrum, simulacra can cast innate spell hlas. Is it intended?

Mmm...on one side, the simulacrum is supposed to have your innate abilities (it's a perfect copy of you with 80% xp), on the other, I guess getting HLAs with it would defeat one of the main goals of the tweak: limiting the spam of those "lvl 10" spells.

I'd be curious to know how DavidW handled it within standard SCS, because I seem to recall that for him reducing those HLA use to 1/day (aka 1/encounter for AI enemies) was the main reason to opt for this tweak.

Can you make project image be dispelled or removed after its work is done? I was dispelling it with dispell magic, now its gone im stuck with it until it disppears.

Well, I could add an ability to the image to dispel itself...or a script block within the image's script, if we can tweak it. I wasn't touching those scripts because SCS edited them.

That being said, the image duration is kinda short, and it's easy enough to destroy if you wish so. May I ask if you are using it during a fight, or outside/before it?

I will have to see if changing Find Familiar to Innate messes up compatibility with my own WTP Familiars and I am not thrilled at the idea that the mod will be further developed only for EE game but happy to see a new release and kreso's revised SCS.

I haven't changed any cre file, nor how the spell works. Only where it is located. I hope that means it's all fine.

Revised SCS is a modified version of SCS specifically designed for Spell Revisions. Install it instead of the standard SCS.

Provided by Kreso (or Aasim for old Bioware forums no-reloaders and BGEE forums) this variant of SCS will be dedicated to make sure the AI can take out the most from SR's changes, tweaks and new spells. Thanks again to DavidW for providing us the base for this project (I'll try to contact him asap to be sure he's ok with it). Long live to SCS+Revisions installs.

Some examples of the modified AI behaviour:

As of SCS v32 RC1, SCS has included additional built-in support for Spell Revisions, so Revised SCS is no longer needed.

- Well, here it be. The tear lies beyond. (if someone can put this link in a pinned thread, it'd be great btw).

 

- hope Demi included my hotfixes for SR

 

- Special thanks to ALIENQuake for EE, and to Demi for making my life miserable by tweaking touch attacks again.

 

- Any and all further development will be run only on EE engine.

- I can do it here on SR's forums considering it's pretty much an extension of SR

- I did, I even dared to mess up again with that damn git hub for it

- you are welcome

- I guess Revisions will soon go in the same direction

This is not the build you deserved, but the build we need right now.

Mostly needed to allow Kreso testing his wonderful project 'Revised SCS'.

V4 - Beta 13 (21 September 2016)
- many minor fixes (thanks to all beta testers who managed to find even super small issues and reported them!)
- Concentration check is now on by default on SR install
- fixed an issue with NRD blocking Wild Mages at character creation spell screen
- global rebalance of pretty much ALL summons
- global rebalance of HLAs (turned into 1/day innate abilities, minor tweaks)
- added a few custom sec types (haste, slow, petrification, insects)
- Cause Wound spells bypass PfMW but can be blocked by Spell Deflection and GoI
- Gust of Wind counters insect spells
- Icelance added to druid's 3rd lvl spells
- Call Woodland Beings summons 1-2 dryads, plus a nymph at higher lvls
- Find Familiar turned into an innate ability (fixed EE string issues)
- True Strike changed to +4 thac0 and +5% chance to score critical hits for 3 rounds
- Icelance added to 3rd lvl spells (School: Evocation)
- Pro Fire/Cold/Ele/Acid spells merged into a single ProEnergy at 4th lvl (select 1 element when cast)
- Dispelling Screen turned into a party-wide protection vs. dispel
- Death Knight Unholy Fireball dmg is now half fire half magic (undead are immune to the magic half)
- Demilich Soul Trap save penalty from -6 to -4, the maze effect no longer use INT drain
- Demilich Howl save penalty from -6 to -4

- Looks nice. Basically it just unpacks a lot of the noises from 18 to 18/90 and shifts them to lower scores, so having (say) a 15 STR is actually useful and meaningful.

 

- Only thing I would change is to make 19 be +3/+5 - it's a step up from18/00 (if you roll 18/00 and read a Tome, you get 19) so there should be a difference.

- exactly

- going from 18/00 to 19 gives a +1 to hit bonus. I think that's fine, and it gives half-orcs a noticeable advantage for BG1 (better than vanilla's +1 dmg over 18/00). Otoh, 18/00 isn't so special anymore, because I have the same +2 dmg from 18/51 up to 18/00, but I think it's better like that than having 18/01-18/99 with +1 and then only the 18/00 with +2. Am I wrong?

Overall I'm quite satisfied. I'm improving characters with "believable" stats (14-17) without hurting characters with maxed stats (18-19). The only goal we once set that I haven't completely fullfilled is nerfing the 'to hit' bonuses with god-like stats (only 24-25 has 1 point worse thac0).

We could split those +2 dmg at 20, 22 & 24 like this:

STR  Hit     Dmg
19   3        4
20   3        5
21   3        6
22   4        6
23   4        7
24   4        8
25   5        8

But that would create a non-linear progression while also restoring vanilla's issue with 18->19 step being somehow better than anyother step.

Something like this? Ignore bend bars and weight stuff, I'm still messing with that...

10   0        0               10                      70  -> Scimitar, Axe, Mace
11   0        0               11                      70  -> Bastard Sword & Morning Star
12   0        0               12                      90  -> Plate Mail & Medium Shield, Heavy Xbow
13   0        0               13                      90  -> Halberd, Flail
14   0        1               14                      120 -> Two-handed Sword
15   1        1               15                      120 -> Full Plate & Large Shields
16   1        2               20                      150
17   2        2               40                      200
18   2        3               45                      300 -> 3 dmg below STR 18/50, 4 up to 18/00
19   3        4               50                      400
20   3        6               55                      500
21   4        6               60                      600
22   4        8               65                      800
23   5        8               70                      1000
24   5        10              75                      1200
25   6        10              80                      1400

Overall:

- STR 14 is meh, but at least it starts getting something

- characters with STR 15-17 gets the most noticeable buff

- STR 18/xx is somehow preserved and functional (18/00 is a bit nerfed while Anomen and Korgan are almost unchanged)

- STR 19 has same thac0 as vanilla but -3 dmg

- STR 20+ is very slighty nerfed (thac0 is either unchanged or 1 point worse, dmg is generally 2 points lower)

However, it does mean we'll then start considering the same for Ice Storm vs Incendiary Cloud, ADHW vs Entangle, etc.

This. If you open up that box Ao only knows what will come out of it.

That's the same thing I said a few times when I was asked to do similar things (e.g. Flame Blade granting immunity to webs, Grease increasing fire dmg on targets, ...). That being said CoC vs Fire Shield is kinda fitting imo.

ADHW vs Entangle

- Speaking of Cold damage- Ice Storm has a no-save 50% MS reduction that is bugged to bypass MR.

- Suggestion - allow a breath save for MS reduction, fix MR. This spell is just too good.

- fixed locally but I'm not touching git until Mike says I can...

- it's not a full slow though, just movement rate, is it really dat powerful? 5E uses the "difficult terrain" status but it's still a halved movement rate with no save

Remember that warriors cannot roll a natural "unexceptional" 18. So for them, 18/01-18/50 is the equivalent.

Yeah, I wrote that comment near STR 18 and only later realized the implication. I guess STR 18 cannot have +1 to hit if we want to preserve that 18/xx, but +2 dmg split in two. The "problem" is that if I opt for that, either the bonuses start from STR 14 instead of 13 or we end up with giving STR 18-19 even better thac0 than before.

If the player can't stop themselves from maxing S/D/C then they'll already get enough bonuses and they should get these new ones.

You mean "shouldn't"? Anyway, they can still max out S/D/C and easily get high INT 15-18 for your bonus. Say hello to vanilla's Ring of Human Influence.

Also: I stopped worrying about trying to move bonuses down to 13 when I realized that this game so often results in very high stat rolls. I mean the minimum roll gets you 13 in all stats! 80-85 is more or less the minimum that most players accept, which is an average of 14; so for me, that justifies having bonuses kick in at 15. Literally "above average."

Point taken, but I would still have bonuses kick in at least at 14 if 13 really isn't possible.

Using CHA for saves vs. spells only is a fine idea, but then IMHO they should be removed from CON shorty save bonuses. CON should be for death/poison and petrification/polymorph only. (Which makes sense anyway.)

But CHA bonuses would not be an exclusive of shorties.

@Kreso I owe Mike a holiday here in Italy because he spent like 2 hours helping me out with github, and he still hasn't finished. Sooner or later we'll manage to upload that damn build.

Anyway, I don't have any problem with Stoneskin because unlike PfMW it isn't something that forces warriors to just stand there like idiots. It is super strong yes, almost OP, but you can use weapons/ammo with elemental dmg, you can use poison effects, or just tear it down with a hasted dual wielder... Similalry, I don't have any problem with Fire Shield, I suggested to make Cone of Cold cancel it because a player was begging for a "hard-counter", but even in its current state it has plenty of counters as you say (polearms work only with IR though).

Btw, how's Cone of Cold now with its super fast casting time? Is it appealing enough?

@Kreso veery nice.

I too found the non-dispellable Acid/Fire Shield to be a major nuisance in SCS battles, since pretty much every lowly no-name mageling uses them.

 

Breach not dispelling them makes sense (it already does enough), but Pierce Shield - being such a high-level spell - probably should. (Not to mention that its name literally mentions "shields".)

Mmm, I don't want to start overcomplicating everything but what if Cone of Cold canceled Fire Shield?

It's super easy to do within EE but also doable on old engine now that Fire Shield sec type doesn't need to remain unchanged for Breach.

And adding an extra mid-level spell which only dispells specific protections, would also be nice.

Ages ago Pierce Magic did that, and that's why Pierce Shield isn't a "full Breach".

I guess we could give that feature back to PS, or we could use it to try improving either RRoR or Khelben's Whip.

Suggestion for Sleep:

 

In the wake-on-hit effect (spwi116D.spl), add a 6-second Slow, so the woken person doesn't immediately spring to their feat and attack, but instead spends a short time being groggy and slow.

It wouldn't work perfectly imo. A target might be immune to sleep effect but not slow (or viceversa).

@Subtle it doesn't surprise me our tables are similar. While it would be cool to make mental stats more meaningful I'm not sure I like what you did because:

- if you don't have enough benefits spread around all the stat cores then you create a system where you're sort of compelled to min-max to reach that particular score (e.g. INT x to reach that +1 bonus or CHA y to reach that super powerful luck bonus). That's pretty much what vanilla's tables encourage, you're sort of forced to get STR 18/xx or 19 because STR 11-16 means nothing and the difference from 17 and 18/xx or 19 is ridiculously huge.

- your tweak only apply at character creation, and unfortunately for you the game offers tons of ways to modify your ability scores during the game.

That being said, making INT affect crits is a nice idea on paper (much like it would be cool tomake it affect Called Hits imo) while I'm not sure why CHA would affect luck. Considering your mods sort of embraced SR save system, I might suggest you making CHA affect will saves (aka vs. spells).

@Mike with the revised ability scores, getting that STR 19 will still be very nice but not hugely better than having STR 16-17.

EDIT: it's not the final table but it gives you an idea...

STR  hit     dmg           pointless               Vanilla's weight e requirement (to be revised a bit)
10   0        0               10                      70  -> Scimitar, Axe, Mace
11   0        0               11                      70  -> Bastard Sword & Morning Star
12   0        0               12                      90  -> Plate Mail & Medium Shield, Heavy Xbow
13   0        1               13                      90  -> Halberd, Flail
14   1        1               14                      120 -> Greatsword
15   1        2               15                      120 -> Full Plate & Large Shields
16   2        2               16                      150
17   2        3               40                      170
18   3        3               45                      200 -> +1 dmg below STR 18/50, +2 up to 18/00? mmm
19   3        5               50                      500
20   4        5               55                      600
21   4        7               60                      700
22   5        7               65                      800
23   5        8               70                      1000
24   6        8               75                      1200
25   6        10              80                      1600

Revised table makes sense, however what would be the benefit? Lowering values seems more like artificial restriction to me, because if you agree with them then you don't play a DEX 18 dwarf in the first place, and if you don't then why install the component.

Well, they are not set in stone yet, and they do not need to be just "nerfs" (the half-elf gets better DEX and CHA for example).

Btw, your position is sort of saying "while blocking exploits when you can just not use them"? Well, you know me, I like to do it anyway. I like to then play a single class Human Berserker without thinking that with my game rules all other races would have been a hugely better pick.

Also a number of characters, joinable and not, may end up with illegal stats with this revision, unless patched manually.

I just checked all joinable NPCs and I see only two cases, Khalid's CON 17 and Kivan's STR 18/12. We already had 2 BG1 NPCs with illegal stats for years, we could take this opportunity to revise them all.

 

Btw, half-orc do get something special already: it's the only race with STR higher than 18.

Sorry but my BG2 fighter will always have at least 19 STR, cause of the manual in BG1. So that's not a real benefit, ever to be. Which is why the half orc char could have that in BG2 char-gen.

Of course this all depends on how the bonuses change in each stat. So, I'll comment that too...

Well, that manual would have taken your half-orc to 20 instead of 19.

A daring idea about shorties is to make them more true to their PnP lore. They may be more magic resistant than humans, but - they're level-limited. One would think twice before rolling a dwarf if that dwarf would get 20% XP penalty.

While I agree that shortie save bonuses are still outstanding despite my nerf, balancing classes with different xp progression is a recipe for disaster imo (see vanilla's Bard becoming the ultimate buffer and dispeller, or druid's stupid level scaling). Those things might work for specific cases (especially on PnP with a DM finely tuning it) but as a global rule it's not a good idea imo.

@Jarno the thing is that not all stats have the same value, especially within BG. Physical stats are hugely more important for all classes within our system, while mental stats either play a minimal role or no role at all depending on the class.

Btw, half-orc do get something special already: it's the only race with STR higher than 18.

Logical changes as always.

For comparison, "Victor's Improved Races" component does the following changes:

RACE      STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
Human:    18  18  18  18  18  18
Elf:      18  20  16  18  18  18
Half-Elf: 18  19  17  18  18  18
Dwarf:    18  18  20  18  18  16
Halfling: 16  20  18  18  18  18
Gnome:    18  18  18  20  16  18
Half-orc: 20  17  20  15  18  17

...but your version is more balanced and logical.

That's the one I use!

 

 

But dwarves don't get 18 DEX.

Both dwarves and half-orcs on that table are hugely more powerful than humans.

A Dwarf with CON 20 should at least have DEX 16 to balance it out. Their bonus to both saves vs. death and saves vs. spell is outstanding and has to be taken into account imo.

Half-orcs with STR 20, DEX 17, and CON 20 are insane! I could be persuaded to go with 19, 17, 19 despite Jarno's weak argument, but that would still make them the de-facto superior pick for any warrior class.

Keep in mind I'll also revise ability scores a bit to make each +1 matter. For example right now the difference between DEX 19 and 20 is pretty much non-existent. I'll try to post them later tonight.

Looks fine to me. One technical question though: how did you implement the +x bonuses? I thought this was hardcoded in the original.

Are you talking about the improved stats or shorties saves? Regardless, they can be modified via 2da files, abracead and savecndh/savecng respectively.

Short story: I want to try few tweaks to make the difference between each race more meaningful, while also trying to rebalance them a little bit.

Long story: Vanilla's Human selling point was the ability to dual class but leaving aside my issues with dual-classing, the huge flaw behind this is that if you didn't dual than the human character was always the weakest race.

I would also dare to suggest letting humans multi-class. It's waay more balanced than the dual-class system, it makes much more sense role-play wise, and giving them such option doesn't lessen demi-humans in any way.

Vanilla's Races

RACE      STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA  Special
Human:    18  18  18  18  18  18
Elf:      18  19  17  18  18  18   Immmunity to charm & sleep, +1 thac0 with long swords & long bows
Half-Elf: 18  18  18  18  18  18   Resistant to charm & sleep
Dwarf:    18  18  19  18  18  16   +x bonus to saves vs. death and spells
Halfling: 18  19  18  18  17  18   +x bonus to saves vs. death and spells, +1 thac0 with slings
Gnome:    18  18  18  19  17  18   +x bonus to saves vs. wands and spells
Half-orc: 19  18  19  16  18  18

Suggested Revised Races

RACE      STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA  Special
Human:    18  18  18  18  18  18
Elf:      17  19  16  18  19  18   Immmunity to charm & sleep, +1 thac0 with long swords & long bows
Half-Elf: 17  19  17  18  18  19   Resistant to charm & sleep
Dwarf:    18  16  19  18  18  16   +x bonus to saves vs. death and spells
Halfling: 16  19  18  18  17  18   +x bonus to saves vs. death and spells, +1 thac0 with slings
Gnome:    17  18  18  19  17  18   +x bonus to saves vs. wands and spells
Half-orc: 19  17  18  17  18  16

Note: shorty +x to saves was capped at +5 with CON 18 in vanilla, it's capped at +3 with CON 19 within the current build of KR.

I was also pondering to raise the max stat to 20 for few specific cases (e.g. Elf's DEX, Dwarf's CON) which would have the side effect of making Coran and Kagain stats legal, but it harder to balance because I would have to lower some other stat even more.

What do you think? If you have any suggestion (e.g. keep Half-orc vanilla's CON to 19 and lower DEX by 1 more point down to 16) I'll gladly discuss it.

(e): Priest's Poison sound effect after the poison has ended does not check for a saving throw - that is to say, if the creature hit by the Poison saves vs. poison when the spell is initially cast upon them, there will still be a sound effect of the poison expiring (...should a poison really have an expiring sound to begin with?) 60 seconds later.

 

(e): On another note, Vampiric Touch's (SPWI314)'s level 5 effect (aka level 1 effect) does 2d6 damage instead of just a flat 6 damage, as it should do per the description.

 

(e): In the level 18th version of Fire Shield, the fifth effect is an opcode 84 (reduced damage from magical fire) that is not in any of the others.

 

(e): Protection from Missiles has a duration of 60 instead of the listed 120.

 

(e): The sound effect for Disintegration has a save vs. spell instead of a save vs. breath.

 

(e): Priest's Holy Smite has mismatched saves for the blindness and damage effects.

We're still on the update of the french translation. arcane.tra is done; we're working on divine.tra.

 

We noticed some oddness:

- there are two spells "Dispel Magic" in @503/@504 and in @547/@548

- in @750, there is "Fire Shield (Red)" -> it should be "Fire Shield"

- fixed

Hi Demi. As you probably know the 2.0 patch of EE changed enchanted weapon spell so it bumps enchantment level of a given weapon, rather than create a new one.

 

I would suggest making a new spell called Conjure Weapon with the current SR function and a Enchant Weapon spell with current EE functionality. Both spell effects are useful and have a valid reason to exist I think.

I fully agree, I already planned this months ago but then I disappeared.

Now I want to kill myself because I lost my docs but I think my plan was to move the old version down from 4th lvl to 3rd, renaming it Conjure Magic Weapon, and keep EE one as an Enchantment spell instead.

Demi cast Raise Dead on self...

Sorry if I disappeared again, time to wrap things up! Thankfully Mike is still around (I love you man ) and I think I can dedicate 1-2 hours per day to modding for quite a few weeks before I have to get back to work.

I'll try to read all the posts I missed and start to understand where I have to start. Brb

...

...

I'll look into both issues tomorrow.

Is the NWN-Spell Deflection component supposed to work? It doesn't in my installs. Neither spell description nor spell effects.

Quite a few beta testers used it and it worked fine. Please don't tell me that 2.0 or 2.1 screwed it.

Other than that i don't see a problem yet. I'll keep looking.

That's cool man, especially considering I've heard so many issues between 2.0 and mods.

Does SCS use any of the SRv4 spells? Or are these party-only at this point and it will operate as SRv3?

SCS will use a few of them because I sort of "force" them on it (e.g. Waves of Fatigue, Mestil's Acid Sheath, etc.) but some of them will remain party-only unless SCS is updated. The amount of unused new spells is small though, and thankfully SCS takes into account all I did within V3, thus the end result might not be perfect but still great imo.