Jump to content

Duckfeet

Members
  • Posts

    56
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Duckfeet

  1. Exactly! This works... and increase the radius. Keep the KO chance. So, it's now half as effective at disabling, but if you double the radius it's potentially twice as effective at antimobility, which cancels out the half duration.Well, it's not so simple. Halving the duration doesn't mean the "KO" effect is half as effective, and increasing the AoE surely doesn't mean making it twice as effective. A bigger AoE in particular isn't necessary an advantage for un-friendly spells, actually a smaller AoE for those spells can much more effective in some cases. To be precise, not really thinking about it in terms of "effectiveness", but more along the lines of "antimobility" vs "disabling". Exemplary antimobility spells: Teleport field, entangle, Repulse Undead, SR versions of Ice Storm and Acid Fog, Slow, Haste Exemplary disabling spells: hold person, confusion, emotion, insect swarm, any other save-or-else spell Antimobility spells artifically create space between you and the enemy so you can pound them with artillery or take extra time to deploy your own troops. Disabling spells mess with the enemies' ability to fight effectively. Grease seems to me to be intended to be an antimobility spell. So is Web but right now Web is more disabling than antimobility. I feel the general trend in SR is to make more antimobility spells vs disabling spells, to add tactical color to the gameplay. Increased AoE improves antimobility relative to disabling precisely because it makes it more party unfriendly and has a greater space to effect the enemy's mobility. In terms of pure "effectiveness" as you pointed out the advantages vs disadvantages of greater area mostly cancel out. Well, I may try to fix that, I had to do something like that for IR's Belt of Inertial Barrier. Anyway, after thinking about it I think you're supposed to cast Grease under target's feet, not in front of them while they advance (unless in a narrow corridor). BG's AI is quite limited and will continue in your direction, but in theory only a feebleminded character would be so stupid to do it when he can just opt for a longer but safer way. Agree, however there is danger going down the "two wrongs make a right" approach, because it just gets more and more removed from the implemented game mechanics. How is a player to know that you are supposed to cast the spell at the target's feet based on the meta-reasoning that otherwise in an ideal world the target would run around it, when in the game world they just don't? The normal expected behavior is, the enemy comes into the stationary AoE, they will be affected, if this doesn't happen then it looks like a bug. If you're concerned about the AI exploit, then Grease should NOT in fact be a stationary AoE, but more like GrCommand where you get a one-time save to avoid KO, if you fail then you get to try to save every round to get up. This latter option is also quite a feasible option if you combine it with a no-save movement rate penalty for a short time, e.g. 3-5 rounds.
  2. If you're Entangled (per the spell), you can't move, but can do everything else at full capacity. If you're struggling to get up, you don't get to simultaneously swing a weapon / draw a bow / cast a spell. As for the "sticky mud" argument, the spell is "Grease", not "Transmute Rock to Mud" (I think there actually is a spell in PnP that does that, I forgot). EDIT: Yes there is, found it here. 5th level spell! http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transmuteRockToMud.htm Besides, I like the "flop on your back" animation. It's gorgeous and I wish it was used more.
  3. My rationale is based on the understanding that the role of Grease should be more antimobility rather than disabling. Right now it's awesome at disabling (cast it directly at the opponent, everyone who fails a save is KO'ed immediately) and mediocre at antimobility (it's so small that opponents tend to be able to run across it completely before the round-tick checks for application of any effects). We want it to be not so disabling but better at antimobility. That's why I suggested Entangle, basically a "set movement rate to 0" such that there are no AC effects from being KO, and still can cast spells and use ranged weapons. But you're right that it makes no sense from a realism perspective. Exactly! This works... and increase the radius. Keep the KO chance. So, it's now half as effective at disabling, but if you double the radius it's potentially twice as effective at antimobility, which cancels out the half duration. EDIT: By the way, I just noticed that the level 5 divine spell "greater command" is very similar to the current Grease, except it's a bit bigger, saves at -4, and it's not stationary AoE (so if they wake up, they stay up!) and no movement rate effect. Dunno about the balance at this point since Grease is still under review. But it looks a bit weak to me.
  4. After more playtesting (without that overpowered pseudodragon which can fly through the grease to kick ass) I think replacing the KO with entangle effect and increasing the area will do fine.
  5. Grease has no effect on AC, attack speed, casting speed, saves. EDIT: Also, Grease is not party friendly, and is limited in area, whereas a target hit with Slow is debuffed for 1 turn no matter where he goes.
  6. IMHO the only thing that makes it OP is the KO effect, which really shouldn't have any effect on stationary targets like casters and archers. One of my favourite tactics is to hit groups of casters with this thing after they've started casting, which fizzles all their spells en-masse if they fail their save. But I like the casting speed of 1. It's important for an antimobility spell to be able to be tossed out quickly, otherwise it's totally useless because the enemy would be smashing your face in by the time it goes off. Is there any way to increase the slow effect, or is "set move to 1" the absolute minimum it can do? I think you could remove the KO, and increase the AoE while (optionally) improving the slow effect, which should still offer no save. This would make it a vital spell in the arsenal but no longer a one-spell battle-winner.
  7. I'm going to hate myself for saying this, because I love smashing my opponents with the current version of the spell, but I suspect that if you think Web is currently overpowered, then Grease must be also overpowered. My mage loadout uses almost all Grease spells in level 1. With the Ring of Wizardry early in BG1 (double number of level 1 spells) it's just massive pwnage: - slow with no save - every round save or be knocked unconscious (+ spell failure) - long duration persistent aoe - stackable - small area (can target close to self + run around it and make enemies cross it multiple times) - works on enemies with any HD - fast casting speed - SCS mages don't seem to think to use this against me, while I can spam them to death with it. Holy crap, there's no downside. I think it's even better than Web currently. It totally wins vs Sleep. But the thing to be careful about is not to nerf the spell too much... typically for mods most people who post feedback are veteran players.
  8. Thanks. What's the current hold duration of Web?
  9. Qestion: is there a save for the 50% movement rate of Grease? How about for that of Ice Storm? Acid Fog?
  10. The entries for Pro Fire and Pro Cold are still listed with level 3 spells in the readme document even though they're noted to be level 5. http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme...ns.html#arcane3
  11. Yeah, it's because BG consider sleep and unconsciousness the same thing (even when it comes from a dragon's breath). I think I can try to fix that at least for SR's undead creatures, will try. FWIW in Tutu I went to High Hedge and fought the skeletons surrounding Thalantyr's mansion. Those skellies went down to grease while my own didn't. It was amusing.
  12. Corporeal undead seem to be immune to the KO effect of the grease spell: my summoned skellies can just sit in the grease and pummel my unconscious enemies to death with impunity. Probably because they're immune to unconsciousness. Might be working as intended, not sure. Also, Grease description states that giant-size enemies are not affected, but I knocked out an ogre with this spell. Finally, my pseudodragon familiar never gets KOed in the grease but their movement rate is halved... shouldn't they be like flying over the grease and so are unaffected?
×
×
  • Create New...