Roxanne

Tamoko is a character who has a really strong conceit that personally resonates with me but she's so barely sketched beyond it you can kinda do whatever with her.

 

However, to make the new mod as compatible as possible with modded EET and since

I plan to give her a tragic end anyway

,

 

I'm glad for that.

I'm a bit of a sucker for tragic endings. I'd like her to find some kind of redemption but I think it would be most impactful if it came at the cost of her life.

 

 

I think it also makes sense to add in a conversation with Sarevok in ToB where you reveal what happened to Tamoko and have that reflect on Sarevok in some way. Maybe a conversation earlier on while he's still Chaotic Evil where he dismisses that connection but if you alignment change him later on he admits guilt and a sense of responsibility over it and possible realization that she was the only person who showed actual true love towards him in his life and that was part of the reason he pushed her away. (just an idea anyway )

Like said earlier, there are already 2 Sarevok mods out there. I plan to be compliant with those. There is a Tamoko/Sarevok topic in Sarevok Romance, that is sufficient. All types of redemption are covered by what exists.

So what are the main maintainability changes? Seems odd that it's a fork and no obvious conflicting changes at a glance.

The important words are at a glance.

You may or may not have noticed that I tried to maintain the BWS EE-part during the last year and a half. The problems are not apparent AT A GLANCE, otherwise keeping old and new games in one tool for so long would not have been possible, even though it is a nightmare. If you collect all of Alien's or mine posts in various forum threads during that period, you get an idea.

The current baseline of course takes off from the last usable BWS release, so there is still much similarity in the common parts.

Looks to me that somehow all doubts or hindrances for Tamoko are easily solved. Nothing except that epilogue line exists about her between BG1 end and ToB end in the vanilla game.

I agree with subtledoctor that *warrior* is a generic term not a class and applies to a fighting priestess just as well.

Even mentioning her death and burial does not imply any event in the game at all. If you read the whole contents StrRef 73926, it is told that after about 20-30 years of restless wandering, i.e. something like 30 years after ToB end, Sarevok goes to Kara-Tur. This could even be true if Tamoko was still alive when the game ends and died at some time in that period..

Solved, I would say.

However, to make the new mod as compatible as possible with modded EET and since

, I take the Sarevok Friendship and Sarevok Romance mod into account as well and come up with a storytelling that makes all these mods appear as an entity.

I think it's cut content? Based on unused dialogues in the game, re-added by the Unfinished Business mod.

 

 

I made a thorough research about Tamoko in the vanilla games - including unused stuff - as well as respective mods.

I cannot find any relationship between Yoshimo and Tamoko. If someone knows of any in-game source, please let me know.

I know of a lot of fan discussions and an abandoned Tamoko mod project that had this idea, but that is not material to be used.Also, there is some fiction that makes her a Ninja-type warrior of stuff, all unrelated to what is really in the game.

Facts so far

- she is a neutral-evil human cleric level 10.

- she appears in BG1 final chapter 3 times to face the protagonist and finally pleas that Sarevok's life be spared

- Protagonist either kills her before entering the Bhaal temple or convinces her to leave peacefully (the latter requires some stats from the protagonist to trigger - her remaining story for this option is never told in the game and it is here that my mod would start from.)

- she lost Sarevok's love earlier already when he favours Cythandria

- Sarevok's diary mentions her as a cruel priestess especially effective to extract information from captured followers of Bhaal and Cyric

She is never again mentioned in BG2.

She only ever appears in ToB Sarevok epilogue

*he journeyed to Kara-Tur to bury his one true love, the warrior Tamoko.* - This line is as doubtful as many other examples in ToB that seem to have no real connection to the earlier game parts.

- Tamoko was no warrior

- she was not his *one true love* as he had already left her when you first meet her.

- it is not even sure that she died or that Sarevok would know where or when, and even though, where would he have found her remains etc. If at all, you can accept this line in a spiritual sense, Sarevok in the end discovers that Tamoko would have been his one true love and he journeys to Kara-Tur to *bury* her memory rather than anything physical.

Am I the only one who can't read your screenshots?

Maybe some filter you have to prevent them?

Here are the links

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbk42nkn9dimvef/Pic1.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/omnoslv60vli6bm/Pic3.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7glibj9ypx2jnq/Pic4.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3gdji7gtrwgdbdm/Pic5.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ewynrnq3nkydxn/Pic6.gif?dl=0

(There is no pic2 because that step was shortened meanwhile)

I've always wanted Tamoko to be expanded upon and her death to be resolved even if you spared her at the end of BG1. Yoshimo was supposed to be a relative of hers iirc? I remember hearing that though it's not made explicit anywhere.

This is continuously repeated in some forum but there is not a single evidence in the game confirming this. It is ourside material from some fiction maybe.

"You are from Kara-Tur? You must be Yoshimo's sister" - Just like, "You are Chinese? So how is Mr. Wei?"

I will not follow this fan fiction. BTW she is not even from Kara-Tur, her father was and that is part of her story.

A test version for tool support for EET installation is now online

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29337&hl=

It is an attempt to compensate the increasing difficulties around BWS,

It is not to supersede BWS but to provide an easier alternative for EE game modding.

Roxanne, another update, I removed the AmberEET-master mod and installed the ver. 4 from here and IT IS SHOWING WK and that version is at least 3 years older so why use the newer EET version? but If you are sure it only delays access until TOB then I think I'll restore the newer version because I never visit WK before TOB anyway.

The older version of Amber did

a) not take EET into account and

b) has no ToB contents

c) has bugs even in BG2EE

Roxanne, an update, I chose the very hard way of installing a mod and then checking the game, rinse and repeat, I found out that the Amber mod (AmberEET-master) is the one causing the WK to disappear from the map and that is strange since it's a mod for EET (and the version recommended by BWS).

It does not make it disappear, it delays access until ToB. Same way that some other mods do it in EET.

Roxanne, I have no idea why Weidu log says about many of the mods I installed. All are EE compatible and all are the latest version (they were compatible in this 2013 list https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/23726/bgii-ee-compatible-mod-list so surely newer versions are also compatible) , my install order might be not the best one but I cannot make BWS to install a working BG2EE at all.

 

The Saerileth version I'm using is the one you posted above, is this what's causing WK to not be on the world map?

Sorry, I cannot answer this.

Like I said, I did not yet use the new Saerileth or any other Saerileth version with EE yet.

And I cannot answer questions about bean dogs lists or any other of their stuff.

PS - I just ran a successful big BG2EE test install with BWS overnight...

I reinstalled everything manually (didn't use BWS), my problem now is that I don't have Watchers Keep on my world map (in SoA).

I never go to Watchers Keep from SoA but this time around I have Saerileth as an NPC (though no romance since my PC is female), she's talking about Kesevar and checking in different forums I understood that after leaving the Underdark I'll be auto taken to Watchers Keep to meet him, that did not happen since there is no Watchers Keep on my map, the southern most point is the Wild Forest of Neera. But I'm not sure if I'm supposed to meet him at all since my PC have nothing going with Saerileth, on one side, on the other side I always had WK on my world map before so most probably one on the mods I installed is preventing it from showing and I would like to know which, so I'm attaching my Weidu log in hope someone can clarify this for me.

Many thanks in advance.

According to your weidu log you have installed a number of mod versions from various games, a mix of EE and classic versions. It is unlikely that this is the only bug that results from this. Just look at all the ?? in your weidu.log.

I did some further research, testing, and brainstorming on this *Sword of Chaos* exercise.

Since I found a solution for the possible issue with the EndofBG1 global, I think that the idea is worth pursuing it further.

Eventually it may turn into a mod

- adding a short interval story between Sarevok dying and your arrival in Korlasz tomb. The original dialogue indeed implies that there is some (days) interval in between. A side effect is that the BG1 maps remain accessible until the player decides to move on into SoD rather than the immediate transition currently in EET.

- providing some clean-up to prevent some NPCs coming up with *important* news about some pre-Sarevok events while you move through the city.

- providing some insight in how Imoen leaves the player to stay with Liia Jannath for a while.

- introducing a long overdue joinable NPC - Tamoko - for those who did not blindly kill Sarevok's former lover.

Actually the focus of the planned mod that includes the above introduction will be Tamoko. I will add her for that late part of BG1 and then for SoD. She is supposed to provide some link for what has happened (insider view on Sarevok & Co) and what may come (she and Sarevok have studied the Bhaalspawn story/prophesy for a very long time). It will as well be the story of a woman with a tragic past full of horrible errors who may or may not get another chance.

 

 

Good to know. I downloaded it today with BWS. Is my link outdated?

No, it's a bug in the last version

 

Ah, I found the github and the file and the error.

Thanks for it.

I will make a pull request there and hopefully that fixes the error.

The mod was updated recetly by weigo

it's a typo in cheat_var.tph

Good to know. I downloaded it today with BWS. Is my link outdated? (It is a github master link so should be up-to-date)

The 2.5 patches are going to populate the console with context-specific area listings, complete with the descriptions from the IESDP. Hence why I keep annoying lynx with it.

Yes, I am aware of this. But how come that those old mods (the areas are not even in IESDP) come to populate the lua already now? They are the only two mods I am aware of to add tooltip entries, is that why?

After a recent BG2EE install with some mods for test, my game would not start up. An error message pointed to an entry in BGEE.lua.

The error was quickly found and repaired:One entry had an extra " and removing it solved the problem

2391 {"AR4370", "SOS Lyrar's Hold""}, must be {"AR4370", "SOS Lyrar's Hold"}

This is an area from Shadow over Soubar. However, the mod does not directly address the BGEE.lua, so I do not know how the list of areas and their names comes to be added to the lua file and how that extra " could be prevented to happen.

The list of areas I have in my BGEE.lua only has areas from two mods, SoS and Region of Terror. May this be a result of some tooltip actions those two mods perform?

No other vanilla or mod areas appear here except one dummy

{"BD0010", "Test"}

 

I made a grave error, I was reviewing the beginning of SoD and there is definitely time that has passed since Sarevok's defeat. So I believe Roxanne's mod would actually work out after all!

 

Question though, but shouldn't Safana have a small role in this since she is officially part of the starting party for SoD?

If you go with a party of six into the transition to SoD (in EET) and Imoen is no longer there (which is the case here as she stays with Liia), then there is no Safana?

 

Anyway, you convinced me. Should this study turn into a mod, I will add a Safana appearance when you return to the temple in Undercity for the second time. She will be waiting outside, afraid to enter there alone even if the prospect of immense loot has attracted her to the place. She will just follow you inside, so if you meet her in SoD, you have a connection.

I made a grave error, I was reviewing the beginning of SoD and there is definitely time that has passed since Sarevok's defeat. So I believe Roxanne's mod would actually work out after all!

 

Question though, but shouldn't Safana have a small role in this since she is officially part of the starting party for SoD?

If you go with a party of six into the transition to SoD (in EET) and Imoen is no longer there (which is the case here as she stays with Liia), then there is no Safana?

The Sword of Chaos

- Experimental mini mod for EET-

After you defeat Sarevok in the Undercity, you find the Sword of Chaos he was wielding and it is now yours. While you return to the surface to report your success to the Dukes, you are ambushed and the sword is taken from you. Talking to the Dukes in the Palace and reading some scrolls from fallen assassins point to some remaining followers of Sarevok lead by some Korlasz.

The Dukes ask you to find and eliminate those villains which is also in your own interest. During this visit to the palace it is in addition decided that Imoen stays with Liia Jannath for some time. It is a promise the Dukes had made to Gorion and Winthrop to advance her education.

Leaving the palace, you meet Tamoko. You get a chance to let her join your party. (Unless you killed her earlier)

Whenever you decide to return to Undercity Temple, the transition to SoD will be done.

Notes

- This is currently a One-day quick and dirty coding for experimental use.

- Technically it delays the SoD transition after Sarevok's death. Talking to the dukes sets a global and returning to the temple starts the transition.

- Practically nothing in the original scripting of EET was changed except the one extra condition to start the transition (i.e. make a report to the dukes first) All other content is added to give the tweak a minimum of storyline. This can be extended if the experiment is successful.

- Tamoko has no content yet. It is currently just an idea of an NPC to fill for Imoen and may or may not be developped at another time.

- The global discussed in previous posts stays at 0 during the delay, i.e. you stay technically in BG1

- Under the above conditions you can play TotSC or any other quests left open in BG1 before you advance.

- The mod does not work if you have Sandrah or Jen'lig in your party (I can provide some lines of code to be added to one script to make that compatible if anyone needs it).

- the mod can be installed and tested on top of an existing EET installation PRIOR to entering the Bhaal Temple in Undercity.

Let us just test it and see if it is of any use. It may be better to have something on the table to discuss than just exchanging words. Not much will be lost if this is a dead-end.

EESword.zip

, modders could come in a fill this new section of the game with more stuff, if they want to. Add the Talos/Tamoko hideouts. Add events or conversations that foreshadow the conflict stirred up by Caelar, so the beginning of SoD isn't such a sudden and jarring change in the conditions in the city. Could do all sorts of stuff...

 

 

One potential issue with changing when "EndOfBG1" is triggered - you may get content intended for before the final battle with Sarevok in the time between the battle and triggering the transition to Korlasz' tomb.

 

Let's say an NPC mod has a dialog with CHARNAME about the upcoming confrontation with Sarevok. The mod uses ~GlobalLT("EndofBG1","GLOBAL",1)~ as a check on BGT/EET to make sure Sarevok has not been defeated. If the condition that sets EndOfBG1 is changed, this dialog could then trigger on an EET install after Sarevok's defeat.

 

Right, so some NPC might have a banter about something like "I'm nervous about our upcoming fight against Sarevok!" when Sarevok is already in the ground.

 

Honestly I'd be willing to overlook that. I mean there's something slightly 'off' about it either way... it would be nice to have a mod tge gives me the option to control how that manifests in the game. That's why my suggestion would be the creation of a small extra mod, rather than saying "EET should do it this way or that way."

 

You could add another global variable so that NPC modders could tie into it, if they want to. But it woukdn't be mandatory and the game would be playable regardless.

Astrobryguy's concern was the own that was also bothering me the most. It could be a compatibility issue. I made some research due to this:

- in my EET install there are nearly 1400 hits for Scripts and 2500 dialogue states that make use of either GlobalLT("EndofBG1","GLOBAL",1) or Global("EndofBG1","GLOBAL",1)

- they are used by a significant number of different mods and those mods also use them in versions not for EET.

This fact alone would eliminate the option to have all these mods and ioccurances to be changed because we introduce the tweak as discussed here in this thread. Consequently such a tweak has to take care of the issue and assure compatibility.

Looking into some of the cases (surely not all because of the large number)

- the most use of this global is to determine where NPCs go when kicked out, as those are different locations if you are in SoD vs BG1

- second come triggers in PIDs

- third come dialogues referring to SoD content.after the introductory chapter

This is not comprehensive and not proof, but the number of dialogues referring to upcoming Sarevok AND using the trigger AND not having an additional condition to make them trigger before you enter Undercity is small - I am not saying that they do not exist.

So

*It is time for more experiments* to quote some famous somebody.

I think I see a possibility to do that. A delay when you pick up Sarevok's Sword of Chaos.

It will trigger a minimod in which you report back to the Dukes about Sarevok's defeat.

You get ambushed and the sword gets stolen (fits into SoD start scene).

You get order to seek the renaining Sarevok followers and you want to have YOUR sword. When you go to the Undercity temple the second time, after you talked to the dukes and lost the sword, the transition starts.

When you talk to the dukes, Imoen (if there) will leave the party to make this fit with her SoD role.

Now you will have all the time you want to fill the space between Sarevok's death and going after the sword thieves with whatever leftover quests you want to do.

I can write a little *proof of concept* mod like that and we can test if it breaks continuity in EET. I think that doing it this way might after all work.

Thanks subtledoctor, that's pretty much exactly what I meant to say.

 

I understand Roxanne's concerns for compatibility. That's why it would be the best compromise to leave such an interlude right after Sarevok's defeat. Seems to me as if it couldn't really break any mods there, as long as the transition proper were kept the same. A little change of pace between all the heavy plots would be appreciated by many, I'm sure. Of course a real quest mod as you describe sounds perfect, but in lieu of someone willing to code this it would be great if at least the basic option to delay the transition (and move it to one of the Dukes) could be included in EET.

The main issue for EET is compatibility, something that may not apply to BGEE+SoD.

EET has continuous NPCs.

Since the transition from BG1 to SoD is NOT a chapter increment (Chapter 7 of the game is from leaving Candlekeep Catacombs until you finish Korlasz Tomb). This excludes Chapter checks to determine whether you finished BG1 and are in SoD.

Therefore most mods (and mods adding to vanilla NPC) use a Global that was already used in the classic games and in BGT Global("EndOfBG1,""Global",X).

X can be 0 (BG1) 1 (SoD or) 2 (BG2)

Events that advance it are Sarevok's Death 0>1 and Entering Irenicus Dungeon 1>2.

Thus, defeating Sarevok but returning again to the *BG1 world* prior to Chapter 8, is a state that would require additional checks in many scripts and dialogues. You will otherwise have NPCs and triggers referring to events and conditions that not yet happened.

The current implementation allows many mods to be available for classic and EE games - breaking that up is possible but would require all affected mods to accept your terms...

 

If there would be such a "pause" between BG1 and SoD, it should be after defeating Korlasz - before the PC is woken up by Imoen in the Duchal Palace. That would make most sense, imho.

 

IIRC, there is dialogue in the beginning of the Korlasz dungeon that heavily implies you have already been through a few similar dungeons rooting out Sarevok's other allies. So, why not actually play them?

 

I figure something like:

- Stay in control of the party after the Sarevok fight, just like in BGT.

- Go back outside and maybe do the TotSC content, if you feel like it.

- At some point talk to the Duke(s), just like BGT. You can be told "we've discovered there are three of Sarevok's minions still running around trying to cause trouble: Joe, Bob, and Korlasz. We know the location of Joe's hideout and Bob's hideout."

- After clearing those two hideouts, you find a letter/journal/map pointing you to Korlasz' hideout. You go to the entrance, start to descend a rope ladder... and boom, you're in SoD.

 

A mod like that would be pretty small, but a) it would be faithful to the existing transition; and b) it would give you a perfect excuse/opportunity to go at your own pace, maybe take a trip to Werewolf Island or Ice Island first, etc.

 

I had made this mod.

I developed it because my original Sandrah mod had content in the frame between Sarevok's death and talking to Belt in the BGT version. So you could leave the Sarevok temple again, go back into BG1 and play my stuff but of course also all the other things like TotSC and then report back to the Dukes and they would send you after Korlasz. On your second journey to Undercity there were some new opponents and a new entry among the ruins in the south that led to Korlasz tomb.

Again, I decided to trash that mod and put my interim content into SoD instead. The reason was mainly compatibility. All other mods and NPCs would follow the original sequence and the diversion felt a bit like hijacking the game.

(Did you play that version? Your description is pretty exact, only that Bob was Talos in my case, and Joe was Tamoko.)