ZenSojourner

@morpheus562 Sure I could - If I knew how to create items. I've been playing this game for decades and using save game editors for years. I've never seen changes to lore (or anything else I've ever changed) made with a save game editor fail in an unmodded game. However, perhaps that is something that was introduced with EE, I don't know. I know it hasn't happened in any of my unmodded test runs so far. Maybe it'd happen down the road somewhere, I don't know. Again, I didn't think this would be such a great big hairy deal. Sorry I even asked by now.

I don't. I have one and only one program open at a time. I'm a software engineer, or I was. I know how these things work. I also install one and only one program at a time. There is a listing of the install process a bit up the line. Can't speak to the timing mode thing as the timing mode doesn't change, I don't see anywhere to set that in NI but its always "Instant, Permanent" in EE Keeper. If its timing mode set somewhere else that causes the issue I of course have no control over that. The fact is that I can change lore values BEFORE installing these 2 mods, and after installation it sometimes stops working without changing anything about what is done in the save editors. Same settings, works before, doesn't work after. Its neither a "poor" testing nor a "poor" install environment. I do one thing at a time. When testing I start with a fresh install and I create all new save files/characters for each test run. I install one mod at a time, as listed above. Create new game files after each mod is installed and see if changes to lore still work. Its a painstaking process. I use DLC Merger first, then EE Extender, then Skills and Abilities, then NPC-EE. Installing NPC-EE without S&A does not (or has not so far) caused the error. Installing it after S&A always does. Installing S&A (partial components) after NPC-EE did trigger the error. I should also say, on at least some test runs (not sure now if there were any exceptions, I've run this through so many times now) the error doesn't occur until after Imoen appears with the change class tome in her inventory. You don't have to actually open it for it to happen. However I don't think its the "fault" specifically of NPC-EE, it happens with just S&A sometimes as well. Installing S&A with a full installation and no NPC-EE did cause the error. Installing S&A with just some components USUALLY does not cause the error but once in awhile it does. Why would I "try something besides lore" when it is LORE that I want to change? And using Near Infinity has the exact same problem - changes made to lore disappear once loaded into the modded game. I don't know why this is such a big hairy deal but apparently it is. Doesn't seem like it should be but what the hey. I'd just EE Keeper myself a bunch of identify scrolls but I can't use them. There doesn't seem to be any way around this extremely annoying issue. Unless there are 2 types of identify scrolls, the ones you memorize and the ones you just use. Possibly I gave myself the wrong type? Better go check that ...

@morpheus562 I was guessing that might be it after looking at EE Keeper effects - it is set to Instant, Permanent, whatever that translates to. But there is also a field called "time" that I have no idea what it is meant for. However it seems to be something else that is blocking Lore modifications in both NI and EE Keeper, given that both work until something happens in the installing of either or both S&A and/or NPC-EE that blocks or overrides (effectively erases) changes made through either program. You can make the changes but as soon as the file is opened in BGEE the changes disappear. Save the game after just opening the save and look with either save editor and the changes you made are gone. I guess this is a huge big ugly deal. Doesn't seem like it should be but somehow it is. *sigh*. Sorry.

Sorry, but what is a timing mode?

This doesn't happen when I install NPC-EE by itself (I just tried that). I suspect its some kind of systemic thing that isn't specific to either mod but an interaction with something that is otherwise innocuous. Modding can have all sorts of issues, especially with an old game like this that was never intended to be modded (EE updates notwithstanding). Would you mind telling me how to assign an effect via "opcode 21" to get around this? I found a list of opcodes that defines opcode 21 : #21 (0x15) Stat: Lore Modifier Variants: IWD2Parameter #1: Statistic ModifierParameter #2: Type Description: Applies the modifier value specified by the Statistic Modifier field in the style specified by the Type field. Known values for Type are: 0 ⟶ Cumulative Modifier: Lore = Lore + 'Statistic Modifier' value 1 ⟶ Flat Value Modifier: Lore = 'Statistic Modifier' value 2 ⟶ Percentage Modifier: Lore = (Lore * 'Statistic Modifier' value) / 100 Statistic Modifier can be positive or negative. The effect modifies LORE. and looking at that I would guess that this is the mechanism both EE Keeper and Near Infinity use to make the change, but the mechanism through either program gets broken somehow. How would I apply this directly? How can I fix this without either EE Keeper or Near Infinity, or at least without going through the lore parameter settings (for NI) or the effects tab (for EEK)? (BTW using type 1 in EE Keeper doesn't work, it is still additive rather than replacing, but that's probably beside the point.) I'm going to try installing S&A AFTER NPC-EE (since I have that installed first now) just to see what happens. Probably won't help but what the hey. Thanks for your help.

There is something weird going on that precludes being able to modify the lore parameter (and possibly other things I haven't stumbled across). At first I thought it was just in NPC-EE, but a full install of Skills and Abilities also causes this. Or, at least, it doesn't show up until after a full install of Skills and Abilities, or an installation of both (parts) of S&A and NPC-EE.

No jeeps, HUMVs, ships, planes, trains then? No base camp? No mess tent? You did not go schlepping all over the landscape totally without support. Thank dog for the support you DID have, even if you didn't ALWAYS have it every step of the way. And belts of giant strength and EE Keeper are what keeps a game from being anything like real life, plus mods like the ones you have written. Not to mention magic fireballs that shoot out your fingertips. Games are not real life, if they were, who would ever play them? Wanting a bit of support for long distance movement is MORE, not less, realistic. I liked the donkey. You don't have to, nor to agree with my reasons for liking it. There's a reason our distant ancestors went to all the trouble of domesticating animals to help them do their work and move around. And this has started acting up (can't change the lore value again) even if I leave NPC-EE out of the equation. I can't figure out what's going on. This last time I added EVERY component of Skills and Abilities, but no NPC-EE. Maybe there's something more generic going on, not just NPC-EE. Every iteration I completely uninstall the whole thing and start over. Right now I'm back to a vanilla install, I'll retest every step of the way with each mod installed to see if I can figure out where I'm losing the ability to change lore. Leaving it to just a partial install of Skills and Abilities apparently doesn't trigger the problem, it was pretty consistently OK until I installed all components. I've played this through totally modless several times. Wanting Skills & Abilities is a story-telling thing for me, wanting lore modifications is a convenience thing. Gotta go out and weed whack the yard before it hits 100F today. It's been over 100F almost every day since April here, and I work outside in it anyway. Thank dog for AC breaks and cold lemonade out of a fridge, LOL! AC was not a thing when I was growing up, and growing and canning your own food was still common practice (which is mostly what has me out in the yard for hours every single day). We did have fridges though. Though not everybody had electrical power to run one.

@morpheus562 @mickabouille @Endarire Well like I said, we do have bags of holding now. I did like the donkey (and if its not up to EE, that indicates how long ago it was last time I went looking for it) I would have liked it just for looks though. It always seemed silly to me to be schlepping all across the landscape totally on foot, in this and every other fantasy game. Armor is HEAVY. Hiking about in it, plus all the other gear, just doesn't really sit well. Turns out that using Near Infinity to try to fix whatever is going on with trying to use NPC-EE to change Imoen's class doesn't work either. That parameter (lore) still gets reset. Changing other skills works ok, but not lore. I don't know what is so special about lore (possibly there are other parameters that are messed up that I just haven't stumbled across), but it looks like my last resort for trying to apply these modded classes to an existing NPC is going to be to create a test char of the class I want and then copy all parameters to Imoen (and eventually Minsc) one by one by hand. Thanks for pointing out where the heck to get at those values via Near Infinity. I need to google to see what CRE even stands for LOL!

I installed it last every time. It acts weird. Sometimes when I change the class and level Imoen up it gives me 2 pre-assigned pips (in short sword, and bows) and 2 pips to assign. Sometimes no predistributed pips, just 2 to assign. And after its installed - I don't have to actually run the script to change class - I can no longer affect the Lore value via effects in EE Keeper. That entry keeps getting deleted. Near Infinity is virtually unusable to the neophyte. I can find very little on its usage. I'm sure modders/programmers use it all the time to great effect but there is no manual and it is not intuitive in the slightest to a new user. I have figured out how to SEE settings for party characters but I can't find any way to actually change anything I actually care about. Like lore. I had hoped I could perhaps use it to reclass Imoen and bypass NPC-EE, but given I can't so much as change a single attribute or proficiency, let alone figure out how to add an entire kit, that's a no go. All I want to do is respec Imoen into a Jester, which at least USED to be possible through EE Keeper but I can't get the instructions I have found to work. At least not when Skills & Abilities is installed. Haven't tried it with vanilla, but then its not much use to me in vanilla as I need the lockpick skills and you can't get those without a mod. The only info I've found so far as to how to use Near Infinity to change a party member's attributes, the advice given just keeps repeating "its obvious". No. It is not. GAH! I've been playing this game off and on since it first came out and I have never been happy with Imoen or Minsc as written but it looks like, even with mods, I am never going to be able to change them without screwing something else up. Skills and Abilities seems great but I can't figure out how to apply the new classes to an NPC party member, which is where I want them the most.

I am using Skills and Abilities to get lock picking and trap detection for bards, with the aim of turning Imoen into a Jester. Unfortunately after installing NPC-EE, I can no longer set lore in effects for ANY character in the party. I can go in to EE Keeper and see that the pre-existing setting I had for my avatar is gone. I can set it for both that and Imoen (Ch1 right after she joins the party), save that, close EE Keeper, run it again and re-open the file I just saved and the settings are there in effects. Open it in BGEE, check skills, and its gone for both characters. Save that file, open it in EE Keeper, and the effect has been deleted out of the effects list for both characters. I can set the parameter but it does not persist.

what does increasing bard song duration to 1 turn do? I thought it already lasted multiple turns, like 3 I thought. Or maybe I'm confusing turns with rounds? I'm not sure what a "round" is, actually. While I'm at it, I added this mod (and the required EE Extender using DLC Merger first) specifically so I could turn Imoen into a Jester but I can't get the instructions for changing an NPC class in EE Keeper to work. Game crashes when I try to level her back up. I tried NPC-EE but while that let me change Imoen's class it seemed to ignore Skills & Abilities updated Bard skills, or else I installed something wrong. Just now I've added everything except NPC-EE one at a time and checked to make sure some things that seemed broken in my last attempt (adding a stat effect in EE Keeper to increase lore stopped working when I last tried NPC-EE) were still working. This install was done as follows (all the latest GOG versions): Install BGEE Install the faces pack Install Siege of Dragonspear or whatever its called Run DLC Merger Install EE Extender - for some bizarre reason EE Ex adds Stat: AC vs. Damage Type Modifier [0] with all default settings to Effects, which as far as I can tell doesn't actually DO anything, but if you delete it out of Effects in EE Keeper, it appears again next time you're in EE Keeper. For all party members, not just your avatar. Install Skills and Abilities Is there a conflict using NPC-EE with Skills & Abilities, and if not, in what order should it be installed? Or can somebody help me get Imoen changed with EE Keeper? Directions I was (trying) to follow. Later I'm going to want to turn Minsc into a berserker. Changing NPC classes is the only reason I am doing any mods at all. Back in the day the only mod I ever used was the pack donkey but now we have bags of holding. I'm not even sure where that donkey is (or was) any more, as I recall last time I tried to get it the site it was on had seemingly been hacked.