Greenhorn

Just now, jacklhoward said:

how do I test whether its causing troubles? I am only crashing right now when i am creating a new game. how would i know whether its going to have assertion failed error midgame or so? also is there a way to know compatibility issues when they are not mentioned by mod readmes?

Install one by one mod. After each new mod you install try to start new game in BG1. If you don't get crash, proceed to another until you encounter crash. For start uninstall all your mods in chronological order how you installed them. Then on  unmodded, patched ( you patched it right ?) Throne of Bhaal start new game. If it works install Tobex. If it works install Fixpack then BGT + music. Start new Bg1 game. If it works install 1pp. If it works install the rest and  check can you start new game before and after biffing. If you encounter crash on any of these steps send report which mod caused problems. It is possible  than your game got borked after your first re -installation of Tobex. In that case uninstall game and install it again. Tobex first, followed by Fixpack then BGT+ music. After that all other stuff. Rest of your questions can be answered after you are able to start game normally. And you probably didn't enabled console right? No matter. 

11 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

You would install this into the BGT-weidu game, not to the EE game. For that, there's EEEX.
Good work Greenhorn.

IMP!!! Welcome back bro.  I missed you buddy. 

40 minutes ago, jacklhoward said:

does that mean i need to uninstall every mod if i want to insert another mod in my installation order?

why is that necessary? couldnt i uninstall them in reverse one by one until the one after the desired mod to be installed is removed, and then installed the desired mod - again install every othermod that comes after until its done.

It is necessary my good chap because you have  ASSERTION FAILED crash to desktop and you can't play your game until you uninstall every mod and install them again in correct order. You must first find which mod cause Assertion failed. It can be simple reason like wrong install order ( should be Tobex, Fixpack, BGT + music then rest ) or something more complicated ( maybe you didn't install extended color palete from 1pp  for example ). Your current install gone to hell after you reinstalled from Tobex that why I wrote you to either start from scratch or uninstall all mods and then install one by one to see which one cause that error.  

2 hours ago, jacklhoward said:

ASSERTION FAILED! Return Address: 0x9F5B37 File: ChVidPal.cpp Line: 1415 Expression: m_pPalette != NULL Message: (null)

the same error message occured again when i uninstalled  and reinstalled tweak anthology and all other mods behind in installation order and installed the calling before them. i made sure to uninstall biffing beforehand but the error still happened. any idea why?

Yes . You should uninstall ( and not reinstall them) all mods in your installation by exact order you installed them first time. And then you should install Tobex  again first and check if you can start the game. Which you didn't do.  

17 hours ago, Greenhorn said:

. I'm unsure for music though, perhaps right after BGT. If I'm wrong ( BGT in BWS guide is installed somewhat later after Tobex and fixpack but I don't think it will matter much in your case) somebody with more recent memory of manually installing BGT is welcome to correct me. 

Well that somebody will be me.  Completely forgot that Tobex ( and some other mods ) patches game exe so best install order would be Tobex, Fixpack, BGT with music and then the rest. 

13 minutes ago, jacklhoward said:

by the way, in view of tweak anthology removing the exotic item addition from the package, how do I go on adding those bg2 exotic items to the game? the readme of tweak anthology mentioned that that component was moved to a mod called Calling. is it safe to install that mod alongside my mods since its relatively new and there might be problems with compatibility? should i install that mod after my tweak anthology mod or before? thx

Oh? He removed it completely from TA to Calling which means that " This component also fixes a known bug in the game, in that the merchant at Gullykin and the Helm temple in Nashkel shared the same store file" is available only there if it isn't already fixed by Fixpack.  Anyway Calling  had some issues which were supposed to be fixed in newest version, can't guarantee that it will work 100% bug free as I didn't tried it yet but you can install Exotic pack component separately it seems. If you decide to install it ( one or all components) best to do it before Anthology. 

13 minutes ago, jacklhoward said:

 is it better to just do a clean reinstal of the game and start from scratch at this point?

Considering that you have application crush I think this would be best. You can try to uninstall mods one by one starting with Biffing ( last one) until first one, too. Then install Tobex, check if the game work, fixpack, BGT with music right after,  check if game works,  1pp, check if game works, then you are good. And check if game work before and after biffing. 

Also when you install Tobex try if your game works immediately after, and one more time before biffing. 

7 minutes ago, jacklhoward said:

yes. i used setup-tobex.exe to reinstal and did not bother with uninstalling any other mod. i have been taught before that weidu programme does the uninstalling and reinstalling of the mods after the one you reinstal automatically 

Generally true, unless you biffed your install at the end in which case you must uninstall biffing without exceptions before any changing of other mods.  

Also you can try this install order if you have further troubles:

http://www.shsforums.net/topic/57836-bgttobex-compatibility/

So, you reinstalled Tobex after you finished installation without uninstalling biffing before that if I understood you correctly? 

12 minutes ago, jacklhoward said:

thx. also what are some managers that can do automated install and sorting these days?

That is a sad and tragic story and I don't want to burden you with it at the moment.  You can try Alien's Project Infinity but you will not need it if those listed above are all the mods you wish to play. 

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

That game is so damn good. Really nothing else like it.  I bought it for my iPad and had high hopes for high-seas adventures on the go, but the app stopped working and it seems the devs took my (our) money and have abandoned it. Such a shame...

Shame indeed. Nothing beats fame, plunder and senoritas of Spanish main.    

I see. Well after you install BGT ( I'm little rusty as I used various managers for automated install, luckily you have relatively small number of mods) you should download and install Tobex. Great mod/utility which you will have to study ( read README) to see which options work best for you. After that fixpack, then 1pp followed by unfinished businesses. After that relevant Anthology components, widescreen and biffing. I'm unsure for music though, perhaps right after BGT. If I'm wrong ( BGT in BWS guide is installed somewhat later after Tobex and fixpack but I don't think it will matter much in your case) somebody with more recent memory of manually installing BGT is welcome to correct me. 

As for EE there I'm beginner but I would say that convenient EE NPC's should go last at both parts. 

2 hours ago, temnix said:

I wish someone would make a sea area. With a few islands, possibly. Some device to move about the water - have a wizard cast water walking on them, possibly. The problem with these games now is that all of the areas have been visited and gone over and modded into time and again. A few people have drawn new maps, but those are always on land somewhere. Another temple or dungeon. The old "golden box" games at least let us imagine wonderful places, because so much there was text. Here it's land, ogres and some merchant in a corner selling upgraded swords. Irenicus running with Bhaal blah. Where is my brig to sail across and to an adventure?

You will wait a long time for this, several lives possibly. But until then can I suggest Sid Meier's immortal classic Pirates! Gold? 

Before I say anything else what  is exactly bgt bgm? Something about music?

2 hours ago, marchitek said:

I think right before thread separation one IMHO super important point was made by @Greenhorn and I want refer to it:

I think EEFP should contain only changes that in unlimited time, money, good will etc from BD could make into final patch. This is IMHO clearly "practical" definition of bug here.

To make it more theoretical: I think we cannot assume that "developer intention" was something that in case of unlimited time, money, good will etc wouldn't make into final game. Maybe "developer intention" was to don't add additional item duplicates in content they create, but also their intention was to leave original game content without change. It is possible, right? And if generic items added by BD are ONLY in content they created, it is kind of clear to me that they have no intention to add them to original game content. We cannot claim "developer intention" on something that developers haven't done on purpose.

To finish with example: If BD would add in SoD exact same Hobgoblin that exists in oBG but with one additional script block to improve AI,  should EEFP add this script block to all Hobgoblins in original game content?

For now (if I understand correctly) BD not only didn't remove duplicates in original game content, but also add some on their own (like Scimitar +2, 'Rashad's Talon'). So this make me even more confused about all of this. Maybe EEFP should de-duplicate items but ONLY in content added by BD?

EDIT: Just to clarify. By "fixed by EEFP" I mean core component. I think, adding arguably good ideas of SoD to original game content could be good candidate for "optional but cool". Although I need to agree that having two exact same items in terms of abilities, but with different names and descriptions, can be seen as bug for someone not very into this topic, it's not good game design I would say.

+1. I would also like to add that [ design standard ] should be common sense. I'm simply not Lawful neutral by nature.  

15 minutes ago, DavidW said:

Just minimally on this (not ignoring the rest of the post, but I've got a limited time window right now):

Since this is an EE fixpack, and since the developer team who built SoD are the same team who built *and are currently maintaining* BGEE and BG2EE, I think SoD is pretty good evidence for developer intent in BGEE and BG2EE.

But they also got licence for remake of Baldur's Gate series under clause that they are not allowed to change content of the original games. Sure, they made some additions to original parts but SoD is the only content which they can call their own ( in addition to some gladiatorial fun) and very likely reason why they didn't forced their concept of generic magical items from SoD on the rest of the game. Do you have a right to make that change? Decide for yourself.  

14 minutes ago, DavidW said:

(e.g. the Bioware designers obviously didn't intend for there to be a joinable wild mage, but Neera does not thereby become a bug.)

Ahh, for me she is.  But since you are willing to make this optional we are good. 

On 5/2/2022 at 7:39 PM, DavidW said:

I don't understand - I'm not just being willfully annoying. I think 'developer intent' is the only* really viable way to define a bug, and there is really good evidence that by that standard, item duplication is clearly a bug: that is: there is really good evidence that the developers did not intend to duplicate items, and indeed that they actively intended to avoid duplication.

 

*Well, 'game-breaking' is probably also definable, but it's much too narrow and virtually none of the bugs we're discussing here are game-breaking in that sense. (There are probably very few remaining game-breaking bugs in the EE games.)

Quite a paradox here. In original Baldur's gate and ToB there was only one type of ring of fire resistance, and this is Batalista's passport which you could obtain from more than one source in both games.I think this sheds more light on "developer intent". And with EE edition which ships some generic versions of various magical items this suddenly  became a "bug" which must be "fixed" in Fixpack. That I really don't understand. 

1 hour ago, DavidW said:

To borrow an example from long ago FP discussions: if Irenicus were replaced by an upside-down pink ogre, it would not be game breaking, but it should probably still be fixed.

If Irenicus was replaced by an upside-down pink ogre, it would not be game breaking, but it should definitely  still be fixed. 

If two rings of fire resistance are present in the game from 1998 it is best that this is not CHANGED as opposite to FIXED in something that is called Fixpack which should be mandatory installed mod even if you don't intend to install anything else and intend to play game in it's pure, original form. 

That being said it is normal that not every player/modder will see eye to eye and opinions will differ which is perfectly understandable. So I hope this will not be taken as accusation/reason for personal feud or whatnot. 

On 4/14/2022 at 10:17 PM, CamDawg said:

The header of Know Alignment says the spell has no saving throw, but the body of the description says it does

The description is actually fine for both the arcane and divine versions of the spell, but the saves on the spell itself were wrong. The arcane version didn't have a save at all, and the divine version had an undocumented -2 penalty. Bother have been adjusted to a straight save vs. spell.

Really interesting case here. While in SoD  ( and original BG1) both spells have identical descriptions priest version undocumented -2 penalty is in fact documented on pure original SoA:ToB :

Quote

Know Alignment (Divination) 
Level: 2
Sphere: Divination 
Range: 10 yards 
Duration: Instant
Casting time: 1 round 
Area of Effect: 1 creature 
Saving Throw: Neg. 

A know alignment spell enables the priest to exactly read the aura of a creature. The caster must remain stationary and concentrate on the subject for a full round. If the creature rolls a successful saving throw vs. spell at -2, the caster learns nothing about that particular creature from the casting. Certain magical devices negate the power of the know alignment spell. 

while wizard arcane header gives correct info

Quote

Know Alignment (Divination) 
Level: 2
Range: 10 yards 
Duration: instant
Casting Time: 1 round 
Area of Effect: 1 creature 
Saving Throw: None

A know alignment spell enables the mage to exactly read the aura of a creature.  If the creature rolls a successful saving throw vs. spell, the caster learns nothing about that particular creature from the casting.  When a character is hit by this spell, he will glow red if he's evil, green if he's good, and white if he's neutral.
 

46 minutes ago, DavidW said:

O sweet summer child, look back at the discussion threads for the original BG2fixpack sometime...

I stand corrected uncle David. Did you made those changes?  Heh, beside point.  Anyhow I always had duplicates of those items thanks to various mods no doubt despite "More Than One Copy of Unique Items Can Be Obtained" "fixes" in old ToB, likewise in BGT and Tutu. By all means you can stick by YOUR  interpretation of developer intent as long as it is separated in distinct component por favor.   

Boots of speed are interesting example. Here is hypothetical situation: Thalanthyr's item upgrade mod requires one pair for one of it's item  upgrades. But then again so too that dwarf from Darkest horizons mod in FAI. That is boot01 item not bdboot05. On the other hand fair number of mods scatter magical items all around including Paws of Cheetah too. Which again defeats purpose of this proposed changes from another angle. And there is already mod which address this issue. Changes of this type are not meant to be part of FIXPACK, especially without game developers confirmation for any of these changes. Currently it is just forcing one's view how the game SHOULD be through FIXPACK which is meant to be mandatory part of everyone's installations in future, just like vanilla BG2fixpack ( which never tried to implement similar things and so is rightfully mandatory). 

As someone who wish to use this fixpack in the future I'm firmly with Sam here. What is proposed here seems to me more like tweaking than bugfixing. Besides it is already taken care of for those who wish this so much: https://github.com/BGforgeNet/bg2-uniqueartifacts