Alonso

17 hours ago, AL|EN said:

...

 

I'm getting tired of you lying about me. I have already exposed your lies in the Beamdog forum. I don't feel like making the effort of exposing them here as well. Just remember that it is not very smart to lie when the truth is there for eveybody to see.

On 10/31/2020 at 11:10 PM, AL|EN said:

you didn't specify which parts of the PI are 'difficult to use' and how to improve them

Have you actually read my posts at all? I have done just that several times. For the umpteenth time, the way I have suggested to improve them is to write understandable documentation that explains how they work.

On 10/31/2020 at 11:10 PM, AL|EN said:

you claim that only 'super advanced power gamers with some programming knowledge' can use PI but when casual users oppose, you said that they have lied

No casual player has ever participated in this discussion. Casual players don't even use this forum. The only person that has claimed to be a casual player is Cahir, and we all know he is not.

On 10/31/2020 at 11:10 PM, AL|EN said:

you didn't even provide an alternative way of how EET could suggest the usage of other installation tools whit the fair warring that 'it might be harder than launching setup-eet.exe'

I don't even know what this means.

On 10/31/2020 at 11:10 PM, AL|EN said:

If you were honestly concerned about 'players being frustrated by PI', you would create your own guide/faq/thread ! Why you didn't do it? So much for your 'honest concern'.

I already have, as you perfectly know. It's not very honest to say that I haven't.

On 10/31/2020 at 11:10 PM, AL|EN said:

You can say what you want about PI but if you do it like that, don't expect that you will be treated seriously.

I wrote dozens of posts in the Beamdog forums encouraging you to do things better in a very friendly manner, but you just ignored most of them. At some point I just had to accept that it was not going to happen and the best I could do was to warn others of what PI really is.

5 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

That wasn't the point of the post... it wasn't from the readme, but a quote from a 2016 post that was about the state of that times EET, that is still pinned and all that

Looks like I misunderstood you before, I thought you meant that the recommendation to use PI was based on the hope that it would become usable for more people in the future. Thank you for clarifying. Anyway, it doesn't change the problem that the instructions recommend a tool that is impossible to use for most people.

1 hour ago, Ulb said:

As for my coding experience; it is literally none existent. Most of my mods are either kit mods (which basically use a fixed blue print) or involve mostly animation ports which also require very little coding. If of course your definition of 'some coding experience' includes everyone capable of looking up stuff online for 5 minutes, then yeah, maybe you need 'programming knowledge' to use PI (or do anything else besides breathing).

Seriously, when somebody catches you lying but proposes to forget about it's best to accept the proposal. Insisting on the lying doesn't really help you much.

1 hour ago, Cahir said:

Well, I don't think there is a point discussing it with you further giving your attitude. Don't like the tools that are available to you, don't use it. Simple. 

You were caught lying. Oh, well, it happens. Don't take it so bad.

26 minutes ago, jastey said:

I don't think your "criticism" of PI is any way constructive, and therefore it's not helpful.

How is my criticism of PI any less constructive than your criticism of Roxanne's tool? About the PI tool I've said several times that it works for me, that the main problem is the lack of documentation, and I have volunteered to do all the work to fix the problem myself. I'd say that's much more constructive than what you said about Roxanne's tool.

30 minutes ago, jastey said:

update readmes

As I told you earlier, this is not a problem of outdated readmes. Jarno explained how this is a problem of a readme that presents things that are hoped to happen in the future as though they were happening in the present.

6 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Well, still, you did know what a .tpa file is, and with what program to open it to view it, and magically found a place to add text into it. You sure you are typical mod user ? Cause if that's a thing, we don't need any of the mods hosted here in the site. After all, we can all do them with ease.

Yeah, this sudden determination of some modders to hide their skills and knowledge is most amusing

54 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Me

When you said elsewhere that you are not a power gamer it made me smile. But when you said now that you're a casual gamer it really made me laugh.

1 hour ago, Ulb said:

Is it a casual player now or someone without coding experience as you've claimed before?

You're mixing up different things. You might want to consider reading the thread again.

1 hour ago, Ulb said:

Your current argument is that you could do it but since you have coding experience it must be too hard for people without such experience. Which is obviously not a valid argument.

Nope, that's not my argument.

1 hour ago, Ulb said:

What might be helpful though is to point out where its current documentation is lacking and could be improved.

Yeah, I did that and offered to do all the work of the documentation myself, but for some reason my offer was ignored.

1 hour ago, Ulb said:

I can attest that PI is usable by someone without any talent or interest in coding, so there is that.

Wow, what about we ignore that you said that and pretend it never happened?

47 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Saying everywhere that PI is impossibly difficult to use is disrespectful to its author and simply not true. I'd appreciate if you could stop selling this notion

Show me a casual player, just one, who has managed to make PI work and I will retract everything I've said. Otherwise you might want to consider retracting what you have said.

9 minutes ago, jastey said:

there is no need to go around and tell these negative things if there are clearly other players who manage to install their mods fine by using it

Maybe you should make up your mind about this. In the thread I linked to in the first post you said very negative things about the EET Mod Install Tool (when I talked about reputed members of the community I was thinking specifically about you). Just like with PI, there are clearly other players who managed to install their mods fine by using the EET Mod Install Tool. Still, I'm sure you agree with me that there was a need for you to give that warning. Hadn't you done so I would have happily installed all my mods with that tool, which would have certainly led to nasty consequences for me. By taking a few minutes to warn everybody, you probably saved myself and others countless wasted hours and headaches, and I really appreciate that. In the same way, I'm sure that many players will appreciate that I warn them about PI and hopefully save them countless wasted hours and headaches.

29 minutes ago, jastey said:

it would be great if all instructions everywhere were up-to-date and would reflect all aspects of everything

I'm sure you are aware that this is not a problem of outdated instructions.

35 minutes ago, jastey said:

What else do you expect the EET instructions to say?

The truth, if it is not too much to ask. For a suggestion of how to say the truth about PI and the the EET Mod Install Tool, check the first post of this thread.

37 minutes ago, jastey said:

I have the feeling you just started this thread so you could vent your anger about PI

I have two purposes with this thread, a humble one and an ambitious one. The humble one is to help others as explained above. The ambitious one is to highlight the problem and encourage the community to develop a tool that actually works for most people. I'm not very optimistic about the ambitious one, but if this thread helps just one player the usual headaches associated with these two tools, I'll be happy with that.

4 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

So it's a little more of the hopeful future

It doesn't make sense to publish instructions about how things will work in the future (which might or might not happen anyway). The instructions should explain how things work (or don't work) in the present.

3 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Are you sure it was not BWS, but the quoted entry ?

Yes, I'm sure the EET instructions recommend that the player uses the EE/EET Mod Install Tool.

About the rest of your post, I'm afraid I don't understand how it relates to the topic of this thread.

The instructions of EET are very misleading. They recommend the player to use either Project Infinity or the EE/EET Mod Install Tool. There are very serious problems with both tools that are not mentioned anywhere in the instructions:

• Project Infinity: In most cases it simply doesn't work. Project Infinity is too difficult to use for the vast majority of gamers. Only super advanced power gamers with some programming knowledge (like myself) can make PI work, and even for them it's very difficult. Other gamers who try to use PI just manage to waste their time and get frustrated.
• EET Mod Install Tool: Apparently this tool does an awful lot of nasty things to the game without even telling the player. I might be wrong here because I haven't dared to try this myself, but lots has been said about this by reputed community members, so I'm quite confident that that information is accurate.

I think it's unfair to recommend gamers to use these tools and let them believe that they will allow them to get a proper EET installation when that's really not the case.

Another AI issue in v33.5: In Abazigal's lair the Death Tyrants and Tyrant Golems go crazy casting all sorts of spell on my magic immune golems (including a few hilarious Flesh to Stone on my Stone Golem). I'm not sure how optimized this part of the AI is, but I understand that all the beholder type monsters should have smarter targeting.

I've found another minor issue: In Abazigal's lair lizard man shamans cast "cast previously" spells when the fight has already been going on for a few rounds. The spells cast this way are Magic Resistance, Barkskin and Mirror Image. I understand that this shouldn't happen, if I'm getting it right all the "cast previously" spells should be cast at the very beginning of the fight.

I have a "meta idea": Create a list of the ideas proposed so far (and not yet implemented) and do a poll in the wider community to see which ones get more support. The poll could be done in the Beamdog forum to give it exposure to a bigger audience.

Just stumbled upon a few minor issues in v33 (hardcore difficulty):

1. With the Ease of use AI Aerie casts Cure light wounds on Haer'Dalis when Haer'Dalis is protected by Spell deflection (which wastes both the healing spell and the spell deflection).

2. In Sendai's enclave:

• The lich casts incediary cloud, which hits the Apprentice, who is not protected against fire and doesn't get out of the cloud, so he gets damage every round and all his spells are disrupted.
• A beholder casts flesh to stone at my Mordeikanen's sword and a skeleton warrior attacks it, which is useless because the sword is immune to both.
• Mythikil casts planar travel at himself.

3. When I level up my mage protagonist all the HLAs are available, including those that I already picked previously. I'm not using the "Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities as innate abilities rather than memorisable spells" component. Not sure if this is related to SCS, but it doesn't happen in my vanilla installation and my other mods don't seem to affect HLAs in any way, so I'd say it's an SCS issue.

A suggestion for the ease of use AI: Would it be possible to add an option to have bards sing automatically, like the vanilla Bard Controlled script does? I'd love to use the ease of use AI with Haer'Dalis, but that would prevent him from singing automatically, which for a bard I think is more important than any other automatic scripting, so I'm stuck with the Bard Controlled script.

A similar option to have rogues detect traps or hide in the shadows automatically would also be nice.

My plan is not to publish a copy of the IESDP. My plan is to use the information of the IESDP as a base to develop the wiki. Ideally that would lead to articles that build on the information of the IESDP to create articles with detailed descriptions. You can see examples of what I mean here and here. As you can see, those example mini articles build on the IESDP, but are definitely not a duplication of it.

Actually, several people showed interest in a wiki. Anyway, that was ten years ago. I don't think it says much about the current situation. Regarding the duplication, the purpose of this wiki is not to duplicate the IESDP. It's to compile all the information available about IE modding, including the WeiDU language, the internals of the IE engine, IE modding tips and tutorials, etc.

I'm resurrecting this thread because I have created a wiki about Infinity Engine modding. Its very ambitious purpose is to compile all the information available about IE modding, including the WeiDU language, the internals of the IE engine, IE modding tips and tutorials, etc. For now it's almost empty, but hopefully that will change soon.

I'd like to request permission to import the information in the IESDP into this wiki.

Actually, I have created an Infinity Engine modding wiki already. For now it's almost empty, but I hope it becomes a useful resource over time.

Which seems quite confusing. I've requested this to be fixed here. Since NI is the de facto standard to browse these data, would it be a good idea to explain this in the IESDP?

With my level of knowledge pulling a request for a change without previously having discussed it in the forum might be counterproductive. It's very likely that my requests would be pointless because I would be mistaken about what to change or even about the need to make a change at all.