DavidC

Actually you are right now that i think about it, i didn't realize beta 15 took a pass at NPC spell books.

P.S can i get a confirmation that priest dispel magic should be effecting allies again now (spell description says differently) or have i somehow messed something up for by beta 15 install?

Edit: Have read comments by Kreso and others on this topic, and i'm totally lost as to what is intended behavior for beta 15,

Here is some of the discussion around it for beta 13 (http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28261&&page=7), how much of this is still true

Was hoping to do a play through with beta 15 as i have with 14 and point out bugs and give feedback but finding it difficult to know how many of the changes were intended in 15 (that are not mentioned in the changelog)

Not sure if this question should be here or in the Feedback topic but i have 2 different installs beta 14 and beta 15 with revised SCS.

BG 1 Cythandria (the mage on the top level of iron throne building last visit).

Beta 14: she summons golems then quickly casts web to let them destroy you. (normal behavior)

Beta 15: she has stinking cloud instead of web in her spell book now, the whole strategy behind the fight is gone.

Seems like other mages with SCS tweaked fights are firing SC instead of Web in my install.

Apologies if this post should not be in this thread

Faerie Fire seems weak, even for a 1st-level spells. I really can't see any circumstance in which I wouldn't give up a FF slot in exchange for another casting of Sunscorch.

 

Maybe make it a bit more of a niche spell: in addition to the combat penalties for the target, impose a ~+2 casting speed penalty. So it would be a mild anti-caster spell.

 

Maybe also have it dispel invisibility, like a single-target Glitterdust. This way a caster with See Invisible or True Seeing can have a way to make the target visible to his fighter buddies as well.

I like FF quite a bit in the last Revision of Beta4, it removes the untargettable effect of spirit trolls and such allowing mages to target them with single target spells, this almost seems too strong considering its level 1.

Great to see a new Spell Rev beta Kreso, if you want feedback from a play through i can give some

Biggest thing i have noticed so far, Dispel magic priests version dispels on allies and well as enemies contrary to the description.

Edit: When i have charmed a spell casting enemy i cannot cast spells from them, they stand for a second or two then rush off to auto attack the nearest enemy or just stand idle, If the enemy i have charmed is a Summoned creature this happens 100% of the time.

Edit 2: The Game's UI seems to be using the vanilla spell schools to show what is or isn't learn-able by a specialist mage, E.g Stinking cloud has a red background when viewed by Xan who has an opposition school of evocation even though the spell is Conjuration, the spells are still learn-able.

Just wanted to report back some findings,

Detect illusion works if you target enemies directly instead of firing it in an aoe style, therefore it is useless for anything already invisible, what is worse is that it doesn't even dispel all of Improved invis, i hit a mage with it running improved invis and Mirror image, MI is dispelled II isn't even touched, cannot target with spells afterwards, loved SR in BG1 but it is becoming a serious headache in BG2.

Is there a more recent beta available somewhere?

EDIT: If there is a way for me to assist you or Demi in any way let me know i have some time off for the next month.

Interesting, if both DI lvl2 and DI lvl3 work like they should then yeah that totally fixes basically all my issues with this and i would love to test that out and report back

True seeing as it is currently in SR4b in a level 5 slot sounds fine to me, Oracle in lvl 6 is fine but your stated effect causes some issue to my mind, i do like the synergy of it as you say but:

• Dispelling every 3 seconds for five rounds sounds like a single spell shuts down illusion spell casting totally for 30 seconds, even simulacrum being canceled by a level 5 spell like vanilla if you recall.
• A round being 6 seconds means that even drinking an invis potion is totally useless, let alone casting anything from the illusion school
• Almost All SCS Tactics component shadow thieves chug invis potions, this would render all these encounters trivial once you hit level 12, currently with SR4b they can still get in a single backstab with True seeing running against them if i recall correctly(and giving new clairvoyance a use), if changed they would just stand there chugging useless potions while you massacre them.
• SR compatible SCS version would have to be totally changed to give SCS wizards proper usage of this spell, as currently if unchanged they would do silly things with casting both, when this new oracle would be just a better choice.
• If new oracle behaved like old True seeing but better then you basically have a spell that Demi altered for the purposes of increasing usability and choice within spell schools and overall, back in the game, a lot of what i enjoy in SR is that a lot of spells in vanilla that are left behind as you progress in level are usable again, this would kind of go against that.

i'm strongly against that idea, sorry subtle doctor. ( Maybe if duration shorter, or triggers every second round etc)

Just quickly i would mention that i hope you don't see this as me taking a shot at you, i have done little for the BG community over the last decade or so and the mods you have worked on are legend for us into IE engine modding, i have greatly enjoyed M&G and Scales of Balance for your approach to game play over PnP canon.

Sorry to hear that it might not be possible in connection to Pro X, the idea was pretty cool imo.

And have to mention that no, that does not seem to be the case with Detect invisibility, it just reveals the opponent, even the caster of Detect Invisibility cannot target the enemy with spells,

As for Detect Illusion (lvl 3 mage spell) have now just tested it on the Shade lord and it also doesn't reveal Improved Invi's on him.

What i would suggest is the following for balance purposes in regard to Illusion dispelling.

Faerie fire LvL 1 stays as it is, as even though it removes all effects of improved invis its a guessing game without knowing where you opponent is with only a '5 radius, unless he has other magical effects giving it away or just remove its ability to cancel the targeting immunity and -4 AC of II, (Don't forget FF gives a 2 points AC penalty, halving II's 4 bonus also)

Detect Invisibility LvL 2 considering it only gets rid of invis and not II -4 AC/not targetable or illusion spells it should be on a casting time of 1 and be the go to spell for dealing with stealth thieves and potion of invis users, if the enemy is in groups or spamming such like they sometimes do with SCS then True seeing is the correct choice here and solidifies the identity difference between the spells.

Detect illusion LvL 3 This spell needs to be fixed, given that Mgol is lvl 4 and canceled by a lvl 3 spell it is fitting that Detect illusion should cancel all effects of II as well as everything lvl 4 or lower. If you are playing BG:EET and run into an SCS mage at a high enough level to screw over Dispel magic but you are lvl 8, you cannot dispel and cast at the enemy with single target spells at all if they are covered by II, furthermore if you are level 9 even, you have to sacrifice your single shiny new lvl 5 slot to carry oracle 24/7. (unless you have a cleric or druid in the party)

Oracle Lvl 5 The ultimate single trigger dispel for illusions this spell should stay as it is.

True Seeing lvl 6 This spell should stay as it is in its SR4 beta format, don't add the Improved Invisibility canceling component back in, this is a spell that is really needed with SCS shadow thieves and others but should not be the only spell you need to cancel illusions 90% of the time, this spell fix is a decent part of the reason i love SR apart from the druids fix, it means there are thing to think about in not just combat and spell protection dispelling but also the illusion game. Demivrgs seem to very much understand this point of view, i understand that this might feel over complex and/or annoying to some.

Lastly I think ghost armor should not be dispelled by any anti-illusion spell, breaks the canon of D&D a bit but for balance it should be treated like any other 'combat protection', considering SCS behavior, Ghost armor is practically useless half the time if it is effected by illusion dispels, as all SCS mages pack them.

Sorry for the text wall.

Detect Invisibility doesn't work against Improved invis's lingering effect which is the only part of it that spirit trolls have active, so to sum up what spells work for this.

Level 1 Druid

Level 3 Priest

Level 5 Wizard

This cannot be intended effect, wizards getting screwed out of removing improved invis secondary effect (SRv4b installed with BG:EET, BWS)

On Ice Storm, for me its the no save that is the massive issue here, but i will think more about it.

About Pro X spells, that is an interesting idea man! i might be able to go one better :-) What if stone skin could be used as a template but effect only that kind of elemental damage, start with a single skin and gain one every 2nd or third caster level and make it possible to cast on anyone in the party single target?

The new way flame arrow works would demolish the spell, you would lose 2 charges or so getting out of an Ice storm, fighting against elementals would work but if you have poor AC it wouldn't be such great protection anymore, things to think about.

On Dispel illusion spells, i don't have an issue with the system being a bit complex, true seeing was overpowered and because you start bg2 with Jaheria with it and its the only spell you need the entire for game to combat all illusion spells, i support the SR changes to it to at least have a point for other classes using anti illusion spells, with SCS and contingencies/precast it becomes even more overpowered. Running just SCS and BG2 i recall never using oracle or Detect illusion basically at all and half the point of SR is to make more viable choices to fill up your spell book.

Also a quick note to Kreso,

Ice storm Support this being level 5 not level 6, its not strong enough to be comparable to Wondrous recall, Regeneration or even sol's orb with a 72 damage cap on a -4 save for half.

Pro X (element) Feels very druidic to have these spells available but how they should work i don't know, party wide seems too strong, liable to make certain encounters trivial and i cannot see a timer short enough to feel balanced yet not be frustrating or of limited use.

Lastly, as an update to my previous comment, Faerie fire is making the spirit trolls visible and able to be targeted, a lvl 1 spell, looks like DI is broken then?

Unfortunately, with so many anti-illusion spells available (I don't even know what's the difference between all of them, tbh) something can go wrong. I'm pretty sure that one of them (could be DI) needs to be cast *somewhere* (like a Fireball), unlike the others which are cast on "self".

Now the problem is that spells cast on "self" ignore MR, spell level immunity or whatever

Oh man this would explain the behavior i'm seeing in game perfectly on Raks, the big frustration for me is that Spirit trolls are not target-able by single target spells because of their improved invis effect, Detect illusion like you mentioned requires a target or area to fire not self cast and does nothing to them at all, where as Invis Purge is self cast and works,

To bring it back to Spell Revisions here am i seeing intended behavior or is there a bug with detect illusion here, Spirit trolls have no magic resistance and no innate spell level immunity either, either both spells should work or neither should work, i cannot see how this isn't a bug effecting SR either that or i have a horrible memory for vanilla EE which i have only played once without SCS

its clear to me that this is a single encounter only issue that has been added by a mod, there are spells that state Magic resistance is ignored, unfortunately i assumed this bypassed the innate spell immunity they have, why does Dispel magic seem to work on them? Or am i just twisting my head around because of a single mod added encounter that isn't playing by the normal rules.

EDIT: to be clear, i'm referencing that Raksasha encounter i had

Thanks for the reply guys, i had totally forgotten about their immunity there and not sure if it was a mod or not but probably so, it was straight after the DA keep and connected to the R's looking for the flail of ages, as far as the spirit trolls go should Detect illusion be effecting them ?

Once again i'm not sure what effect that it is on spirit trolls but it functions like improved invis, which is credited on the description of Detect illusion, unfortunately like the R's behavior invis purge is working but DI isn't.

Just wanted to throw out some general feedback for the mod

• Loving it in general, seems to me a vast improvement over vanilla mostly in concern to making a lot of underused spells viable choices now, as that was mostly the intent as far as i have read then you hit the nail on the head, have actually used contagion!
• The compatibility with SCS seems core to me, as they behave almost perfectly together to heighten the spell battle experience, when proper versions are installed correctly ofc.

Thoughts on Druid changes

Druids! oh man my equal favorite class feels good again, differentiating the druid from the priest class and spell list has been amazing for me, all of it feels like it works to give druids their own identity.

I'm in agreement with your removal of divine type spells from the druid kit, once again it gives identity to the druids and i feel that its been made up for in general.
I am a huge fan of playing the druid as a summoner style char and the animal summoning spells have made this feel great, especially like the hasted jaguars.
lastly swapping flat heals for regen is something i have always wanted and not only feels balanced but opens up interesting new tactics to longer battles with sanctuary and the like.

Below in the spoiler tag are my thoughts on the druid changes on a spell by spell basis, have hidden it to make the post cleaner, let me know if this was appreciated or helpful or if i am just wasting peoples time here.

Thanks for a great mod Demi, its become core to my BG experience like SCS has been for a long time now.

Hello all,

just wondering if there is currently a bug with the Detect Illusion Spell (i have BG:EET installed with BWS using SR4b and compatible SCS )

Have just tried to use it to dispel mirror image on Rakashasa's and it seems to do nothing, as far as i know their innate magic resistance should not be a factor in this, furthermore it doesn't seem to work against improved invisibility as is stated it will.

Currently Invisibility purge on the clerics is the only ability before oracle that removes II, as i have just done De'Arnes Keep i noticed that DI doesn't effect spirit trolls either but Purge invis makes them target-able by spells like normal.

Just wondering if i have missed something or maybe my game or installation is having issues, i recall the main usage of DI was to strip mages in SCS of their II, what is the intended purpose of this spell in SR?