Greater Command

[Guest guest]

I'm a little confused how this is meant to work. I initially thought that every round each enemy makes a save to avoid its effects, but it does not seem nearly that effective.

 

I re-read the description and noticed it says more along the lines of "enemies make a save initally and if they fail, then they have to make a save each round until they succeed/duration expires" - that would explain why it seems less effective than my original interpretation. Is that correct? If so, I don't think that's particularly great for a level 5 spell...i.e. they make a save at any point and are free for the remaining duration; even if they fail it's 1 round (right?) of sleep per failed save - which furthermore breaks upon attacking with one of the optional fixes this mod provides, right? (What happens in that case actually? He technically didn't 'save' against it, but was woken, will he be subjected to saves or not from this point on?)

 

Also, it's centered on the target and 20', so what happens if the target moves while its casting, does it follow him and stay with him, or goes to his 'ground location' like entangle etc. Also, what happens if the target dies, does the spell remember his location and keep firing every round or stop? I personally think it should be ground castable to allow aiming and using it usefully (a creature running off confused and taking the aoe away from where you want it is annoying), not to mention it does not make sense that it follows a creature around particularly.

 

You see what I mean hopefully, that this spell does not have much going for it if that is the case. It should work every round regardless to make it even slightly appealing. I know you like to balance things, and I do feel this spell is a little underpowered; IF it works how I now think it does, if not let me know and i guess i'll put it down to my bad luck

[Demivrgvs]

I have to be quick (I'm spending my entire evening on these forums today!) but I'll try to be exhaustive.

 

The closest spell to which you can compare Greater Command is Hold Monster. Both spells are 5th lvl save or else enchantments which disable their targets on a a failed save.

 

Greater Command's advantages:

- instant casting time (this is crucial, especially because clerics are often in the middle of a fight)

- large AoE (20' instead of 5' is a huge difference)

and disadvantages:

- targets wake up if hit (easily avoidable with some micromanagement)

- targets are allowed a save every subsequent round to wake up (note: 3E Hold Monster spell work like this too!)

 

Now, let's assume I remove the second disadvantage: GC would become a Hold Monster spell on steroid imo, because the wake up on hit alone isn't a big deal unless you're using the spell against only 1-2 targets and you need to hit the very same targets you cast the spell at (which is what you'd do with Hold Monster and its uber small AoE). Am I wrong?

 

If most of you agree that PnP Greater Command (to which I even added a severe save penalty) is underpowered I may suggest to make the subsequent saves trigger every 2 rounds instead of every round, granting at least 12 seconds duration when targets fails the first save.

 

Regarding the targeting system instead, I'm kinda favourable to let this spell be cast and centered anywhere on the ground instead of a single target. Note that this also has grants a nasty advantage though, as it makes the spell bypass Spell Deflection/Turning.