SJT_VY

22 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

This is the rub. How do you disable the use of an item in a way that it can be enabled later? MnG does it with opcode 319 effects on items, and SPECIFIC values applied to thieves. But this is not extensible, unfortunately: a given creature can only have one SPECIFIC value at a time, so if you use the same method it will be incompatible. If that's okay with you, then of course that is one route you could take.

Possibly better, if you are limiting this to scrolls which are a single item type: enable use on scrolls in the .ITM flags, and apply opcode 181 effects to all thieves preventing the use of that item type, and then use opcode 321 to cancel the 181 effect at level 9.  (This would be EE-only.)  I tried that, once upon a time. One problem I ran into there was that some scrolls are meant to be used by thieves, like certain green scrolls.  And all blue divine scrolls are meant to be usable by cleric/thieves, but preventing trueclass thieves from using all scrolls will also prevent cleric/thieves from using them.  And of course mage/thieves should be able to use arcane scrolls but not divine scrolls.

You could go the way the original Refinements mod did: make two kits, which are identical except that one can use scrolls and the other cannot. At level 9, you script a kit-change and your character can suddenly use scrolls.  Of course you still have the problem of which method to use to do it, and how to address trueclass thieves without screwing with multiclass thieves.

And of course if you allow use of scrolls by thieves in the .ITM flags and then apply some effect from your mod that prevents all but your kit from using them, it would prevent my feat from working, and prevent the Refinements HLA from working. And likewise, is somebody installed MnG or Refinements along with you mod, it would prevent your kit ability from working. Because in those cases there would be two different effects suppressing scroll use, and each mod would only remove one.

Realistically, the best way to make this work and be broadly compatible is to simply use the exact same code. That's how I make sure Refinements and MnG don't interfere with each other. If you simply grab the code from Refinements, and change the HLA into a spell that is auto-applied at level 9, then it should be fine.  Of course adapting someone else's code is not always the easiest thing to do, I don't know if you're up for it.  In in ideal world I would pull that code out and make it a portable function, so that anyone could use it by simply dropping a file into their mod folder and typing "LAUNCH_ACTION_FUNCTION ~subtled_umd~ END" or something like that. I've done that for a few other things, like custom HLA tables and 3E-style Evasion. But unfortunately I just don't have time to do that sort of thing right now.

Very interesting stuff! No worries about not having time, this is all useful, so thank you.

On 5/16/2021 at 2:24 PM, subtledoctor said:

Allowing your thief kit to use them would mean allowing trueclass thieves to use them as well.

"Allow this custom kit to use a narrower selection of items than the base class" is pretty easy to accomplish. "Allow this custom kit to use a broader selection of items than the base class" is complicated, and generally involves making compromises that some may find unpalatable.

So in Might and Guile I assume you accomplished this with 'Use Magic Device' by adding the ability to use scrolls/wands to *all* thieves, then disabling it for anyone who doesn't take the feat?

Is this not a route I can take (I'm really just starting out with mods mind you...) only with slightly less complication because I'm not making it a feat you select upon level up, but one that is applied automatically and to only one kit?

I'm looking at adding the ability to my Thief kit to be able use Arcane Scrolls at level 9... I just have no idea how to add the ability using NearInfinity. Any thoughts? Is this a simple thing to do?

Thanks!

It's all in the title... is this possible? Inspired by a few mods that change how weapon proficiences work, wondering if for a second/third pip in Single Weapon Style if you can reduce casting time for spells by 1 (maybe do the same for the Quaterstaff?) when just using one weapon and having a hand free? I can't see where you might be able to tweak this in NearInfinity.

That would be phenomenal - thank you!

17 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Opcode 214 is the most obvious way, and pretty simple. It has some interesting benefits too: if this is for a class that cannot use arcane magic (and cannot dual-class to mage), then you can have the opcode 214 spell "choose from all known (wizard) spells." Now you can add wizard spells to the character whenever you want (learn at level-up, learn from a magic item, choose from a dialogue, grant it at scripted points in the game, etc.) and they all will be available in the "pool" of abilities. 

Opcode 214 has some problems though:

• Cannot choose an ability while the game clock is stopped
• Cannot simply look at the available abilities without burning a use
• If you do the wizard spell thing above, it calls the Cowled Wizards down on you in early BG2

The best way to do this, I have already implemented.  The way multiclass sorcerers work in our Tome & Blood is actually to create an innate ability corresponding to each spell available to sorcerers, and have the multisorcs use those innates instead of spells. Functionally, in-game, it is completely indistinguishable from a normal sorcerer casting spells. But under the hood it is very different.  (It enables some interesting stuff too, like using a mana system instead of spell slots, and adding always-available spells sort of like 3E Domain Spells. But that's neither here nor there.)

Problem is, it is also very complicated to implement. Doing it for a handful of innate abilities, instead of recreating the entirety of sorcerers' spellcasting, would be a bit simpler. But still not actually simple.  Off the top of my head:

• Figure out a way to track the number of uses (points, or whatever)... best bet here is to use the Tracking stat and opcode 95.
• Set up the following for each spell in the system: 1) the innate spell itself; 2) an .EFF with opcode 171 granting the innate spell; 3) a spell with opcode 206 blocking the .EFF; and 4) a spell with opcode 321 canceling the 206 spell.
• Set up a spell with a bunch of opcode 177 effects, triggering all of the .EFFs above.
• Set up a spell with 1) a 172 effect for every innate ability in the pool; and 2) several opcode 326 effects, polling the proficiency or Tracking stat, and casting the 177 spell once for each 'point' the character has.
• Set up a spell that uses opcode 95 to reduce the Tracking stat by 1.
• Every innate ability in the system will have, in addition to its normal functions, an opcode 146 effect which casts the 95 spell, and then another 146 effect that casts the 172/326 spell. (The order of those effects is important.)
• Apply a permanent repeating spell or effect on the character which uses opcode 326 to poll the Fatigue value. If it ever finds the Fatigue stat is <1, then it casts a spell that will 1) set Fatigue to 1; and 2) use opcode 321 to cancel the 95 spell; and then 3) cast the 172/326 spell.

Now you have a pool of abilities that work exactly like sorcerer casting: they all appear together in the UI and they all show the same number of uses on their button; and when you cast one of them, that number is reduced by one on all of their buttons. When you rest, the number is restored whatever the value of the Tracking stat is... you can increase it over time upon leveling up, or however you want.  You can place the abilities behind the 'innate abilities' button, or if the class has the 'cast spell' button then you can  place these abilities there, making it really like sorcerers' casting.

Not for the faint of heart. But the result is slick. I've been meaning to use a system like this in my Feat System mod, for the "Shadow Pool" and "Illusion Pool" spellcasting  feats. Best thing would be write up a portable function, so any mod could drop some spells into it and it would spit out a custom ability pool. But alas, I have not gotten around to doing so, and I have no idea when I might...

Oof. That second route is way over my head. The Shadow/Illusion Pool route will be the one for me, I think. I just might need to live with the frustrations of those particular limitations.

Thanks yet again for your help

More fledgling modding questions from me - and another 'is it possible' question.

Let's say I have a handful of spells-as-innate-abilities at level 1, is it possible for them all to draw from the same 'charges' pool, like sorcerers spells do, so that using a single cast of something will take away a use from every other ability at the same level? I have worked out one way of doing this, but it requires that I click on an ability (let's call it 'level 1 spells') and select the spell I want to cast from a list.

While this is sort of ok, it's lead to a few problems in game, and it's a pain having to click twice to access spells and check the initial ability to remind myself what spell is in what grouping.

What I'm talking about more directly reflects how sorcerers cast spells.

10 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Nothing too complicated - I just disable the original kit and add a wholly new kit with the same name.

Well that makes a whole lot of sense! Thanks!

Such a shame given that attacking from Stealth does something. Just disappointed that casting from Stealth doesn't/can't. I feel like it'd make a pretty unique kind of Mage.

Love your mods, by the way!

EDIT: And I did have a question for you, too. I'm looking at modding the Shadowdancer for this kit, and I'm intruiged as to how you got rid of it's Hide in Plain Sight ability for your Revised SDs in Might and Guile, as everything I've read says that's hardcoded into the system.

I'm coming at kit modding as a rank amateur here - I basically tweaked a few existing kits in NI (and even that took me forever, since I don't have a lot of time to learn how to mod) and it's given me ideas probably way above my station... especially since I am clueless with WeiDu and would have no idea how to add a new kit to the game.

I'm really interested in creating a sort of Arcane Trickster style class. I'm aware that the Mage/Thief exists, but I'd quite enjoy having something that gets a handful of fewer 'innate' spells (and doesn't just turn into a mage first with a bit of thief utility as the game goes on) with the sort of focus on Enchanment that, well, Enchanters get with some illusion utility to really take advantage of that backstab ability too. Plus they get to benefit from the fast Thief levelling. I think it'd just make a weird, but not too OP combination that feels a bit more like a sneaky, tricky Wizard.

Anyway - to the point - what I really want to know is if it's possible to give this potential kit an ability such that casting against an 'unaware' target gives them a penalty to shrug off any 'save-or-else' spells, similar to how targets get a -4 to AC when you're attacking them from stealth.  Maybe - if that's not possible - just a bonus if the caster is hidden or invisible or something?

I wouldn't really know where to begin with actually doing it, but as I said my time's really quite limited (and I'd rather use my precious few hours to play the game than mod it!) and I want to know if it even IS possible before wasting hours trying to accomplish it when it might not be.

Help super appreciated