The problem with daggers (mod idea)

[RoyalProtector]

Thing is, unless you play a class that specifically allows you to put more pips into daggers, there's not much point to investing in them, with the exception that there are a few ones with interesting effects. They have the lowest damage of all the weapons, and short swords are better for backstabbing anyway. The introduction of sneak attacks in NWN makes them perfectly usable weapons for that purpose because sneak attacks are just flat amount of damages on top on the base damage, so the differences between weapons to sneak attack with are fairly low (and weapons vary more wildly, such as in how often they score critical hits and the critical hit multiplier).

I was trying to come up with an idea as to how we could make daggers more interesting in BG.

One idea I had is to add a backstab hit effect to all daggers so that every backstab would inflict extra damage (the higher the enchantment, the higher the extra damage). For roleplaying purposes it could be understood as an extra "quick stab", since it's such a small weapon. The problem is that this effect is not applied to the weapon, but to the character holding the dagger, so if you are dualwielding with a dagger in the off hand, and you backstab with a ninja-to, the extra damage would still apply. And I don't like that much.

Other idea could be to increase the damage of all daggers to 1d5. It would be on par with warhammers which I think is fair. That would tip the balance a bit.

Other things to tip the balance: all daggers have a +1 THAC0 bonus. Because they are such small weapons and easy to use, it's easier to handle them.

Also: all daggers can, more easily pierce vital spots, because again, small pointy weapons = lots of easy murder. That is, all daggers have a 5% or 10% extra critical hit chance.

I don't know how to mod but I do these things with NearInfinity. What do you think about this?

Edited January 22, 2022 by RoyalProtector

[subtledoctor]

You could, in theory, code it such that the extra backstab effect does not apply if you are dual-wielding. Or, alternatively, have any other weapon type equipped blocks the effect, so it would apply when dual-wielding daggers, but not when mixing daggers with other weapons. 

A bit complicated, but both are doable in the EE engine. 

EDIT - you can also enable NWN-style sneak attacks in the EE games, to replace backstab multiples with static damage bonuses. But, you don’t have to be hidden to sneak attack, and enemies don’t have to be behind the target like players do, so with this option enabled AI thieves always sneak attack on every hit 

Edited January 22, 2022 by subtledoctor

[RoyalProtector]

Yeah, could be a good idea to activate sneak attacks. I like the idea of sneak attacks, but I don't like that with SCS, most basic enemies will always attack rogues or mages over anyone  else in melee range, so playing rogues in that way could be a frustrating experience.

I think I'll just change them to inflict 1d5, +1 THAC0 and a 10% extra critical hit chance (this last bit might be a bit overpowered so I may change that back to 5%), making some exceptions in the case of some special daggers like the Grave Binder and throwing daggers...

[Gordian]

You could check the various parameter's impact with Moebius Toolkit to get an idea. It's what I'm currently doing to "balance" weapons and armour for my game with IRR and SoB.

I actually might end up trying to reduce STR damage bonus for 1h weapons by 25% or something (already buffed neglected 1hs like daggers). You could also choose the other way and buff everything else, but not sure whether this wouldn't trivialise parts or much of the game, haven't played BG2EE and especially ToB in a long time.

You can also check IR(R)'s ir_weapon_stats.txt if you want to go this route (it doesn't include crit chance sadly, something I might add, heh).

Edited January 23, 2022 by Gordian