Dorn Refuses to Join at 20 Reputation

[Delior]

I've installed the happy patch component from Salk which provides that NPCs can complain about rep, but not leave.  I am at 20 rep, and none of the evil NPCs I have recruited previously are refusing to rejoin my party with the exception of Dorn.  He refuses to join at 20 rep just like vanilla.  

[Trouveur80]

The patch prevents leaving, it does nothing about joining. ^^

You can recrut Viconia or Baeloth, then switch to Dorn.

[Delior]

Huh.  It's been a while since I played vanilla, but I thought that evil NPCs wouldn't rejoin you if your rep was too high.  So, for example, I thought that if you dismissed Viconia at say 14, she wouldn't permanently leave, but if you tried to recruit her at 20 she'd refuse to join.  I thought that this component was altering that behavior as well.  

[jmerry]

Evil NPCs not joining at high rep varies somewhat by character, and Viconia is notably complicated in BGEE.

The first time Viconia asks to join, in Peldvale, she doesn't check reputation. All subsequent times, she'll only join if you're already at or below 18 rep.

[Delior]

Got it.  In that case, this is not a bug.

Edited February 11 by Delior

[ktchong]

Baeloth would always join regardless of your reputation.  Whenever he joins, your reputation is reduces by 2 points.

After Baeloth reduces your reputation to 18, you can get Dorn or Viconia to join.  Each of them further reduces your reputation by 2 points.

Viconia also checks your reputation when you dismiss her from your party.

If you dismiss Viconia when your reputation is 18 or higher, (i.e., your reputation increases by 2 points to 20 when she leaves,) she will check your reputation IMMEDIATELY AFTER she leaves your party.   She leaves, she checks your reputation, and if your reputation is 20, she will get upset and leave PERMANENTLY.  She will disappear from the game for good, and you will NOT be able to find or recruit her again.

So, if you want to Viconia in the game, do NOT dismiss her when your reputation is 18 or higher.  Dismiss her when your reputation will not reach 20 right after she leaves.

Edited March 15 by ktchong

[ktchong]

I've just checked:

Viconia does NOT check your reputation when you ask her to join OR rejoin your party.  Even if your reputation is 20, she will still join/rejoin.  When she joins/rejoins your party, she reduces your reputation by 2 points.  So, if your reputation is 20 and you ask her to join/rejoin, your reputation will drop to 18 when she joins.

Again, even after Peldvale: Viconia will still rejoin your party if your reputation is 20.

However, Viconia's tricky part with your reputation is: She DOES check your reputation IMMEDIATELY AFTER you reform your party and dismiss her.  When she leaves, you reputation gains back 2 points.  So, if your reputation is 18,  it will go back to 20 when she leaves your party.  At that point, (i.e., immediately after you dismisses her,) she checks your reputation. If your reputation is over 18, she gets upset and LEAVES the game PERMANENTLY.  You will NOT be able to recover or recruit her again.

A way to overcome that problem: always recruit Dorn and/or Baeloth BEFORE your dismiss Viconia from your party.  Dorn or Baeloth will reduce your reputation by 2 point each.  Then, with Dorn or Baeloth in your party and your reputation below 18, you can dismiss Viconia so that she will not get upset at your reputation.    After you dismiss Viconia, then you can dismiss Dorn and/or Baeloth -- neither of them checks your reputation when you leave. 

Dorn checks your reputation when you ask him to join your party (but not when he leaves.)  He will join only if your reputation is 18 or lower.  So, if your reputation is higher, you want to ask Viconia or Baeloth to join first and let either drow reduce your reputation by 2 points.  After a drow reduces your reputation, then you can get Dorn to join.

Baeloth does NOT check your reputation at all, neither when he joins or when he leaves.

So, Viconia, Dorn and Baeloth behave differently towards your reputation.

Edited March 18 by ktchong

[jmerry]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:02 PM, ktchong said:

I've just checked:

Viconia does NOT check your reputation when you ask her to join OR rejoin your party.

You must have checked a modded install, or not understood the indirect reputation checks involved. From VICONP.DLG, Viconia's dialogue after she's left the party.

Condition: Happiness not below the unhappy/angry boundary, local "KickedOut" = 0. Viconia says "You have been very kind to me in this strange and lighted world. ...". Set "KickedOut" to 1, and she stands there with no further actions.

Condition: Happiness not below the unhappy/angry boundary, local "KickedOut" = 1. Viconia says "Shar has crossed our paths yet again. ...". Conversation ensues, in which you have the option to invite her back into the party.

Condition: Happiness below the unhappy/angry boundary. Viconia says "A welcome release. Your weakling surface ways have left a bitter taste in my mouth. ...". Set "KickedOut" to 1, and she leaves forever.

Condition: Charmed. Viconia says "I come from the city of Menzoberranzan. ...". No actions.

That happiness is the reputation check; with default values in the HAPPY.2DA table and HAPPY.IDS for BGEE, Viconia is unhappy enough to leave forever if your reputation is 17 or higher at check time. Note that this is an inconsistency between games; while UNHAPPY_ANGRY_BOUNDARY is always -160, the happiness values for an evil character at reputation 17 and 18 are -161 and -162 in BGEE, and a flat -160 in BG2EE. If you used the BG2EE table without any other changes, as would happen with a minimal EET install, Viconia would only leave if your reputation was 19 or more at check time.

And in this case, because the rep checks in her dialogue are all actually happiness checks and this Tweaks component works by editing HAPPY.2DA, Viconia will rejoin the party at any reputation if you install this component.

Edited May 16 by jmerry