The_Baffled_King

Using the Nashkel Mines as my example, this is what I mean by making the chapter-end areas a little more modular in nature. I have similar ideas for the Cloakwood Mines in particular, but they will keep. If anybody is curious about how I would solve any apparent contradictions or plot constraints, feel free to ask, especially if it might lead to greater interest in helping out with a few queries. I have the ideas, and it makes for an interesting thought exercise, but it becomes laborious to type them out if it's ultimately for nothing. Nashkel Mines Assume for the sake of argument that the difficulty is increased either with an additional level, or beginning on the level without any (live) miners. Aside from the minor diversion (pun intended) to give Kylee his dagger, there are by my reckoning 14 different beneficial tasks/quests that Gorion’s Ward can accomplish in the mines: Quests and encounters relating to the plot 1. Find out what has happened to miner Joseph; 2. Find out what is making the miners disappear; 3. Find out what is tainting the iron ore; 4. Find a way to treat tainted iron to remove its taint; 5. Rescue the missing Amnian soldiers, or recover their bodies; 6. Rescue Xan; 7. Locate Xan’s Moonblade; 8. Grab the filthy lucre belonging to adventurers who have already perished in the mines; 9. Stop whatever is tainting the iron ore (surely easier than treating the taint); 10. Stop whatever is killing or disappearing the miners; 11. Stop whatever is killing or disappearing the soldiers; 12. Discover the whereabouts of an interesting fellow named Tranzig; 13. Uncover links between Mulahey and the bandits, including clues to the location of their camp; 14. Uncover links between Mulahey and some sort of hidden base in the Cloakwood. There are several different NPCs with different levels of investment in each of these tasks, some of whom have surprisingly little to say about it in their existing dialogue. Many of these tasks are either already completed before the end-of-chapter battle, or could quite conceivably be tweaked to make that the case. So, consider: (a) who is already primarily interested in each of these tasks; (b) who, if anyone, should be made to be interested in them; and (c) should anything about the task be changed at all. RE. 1: (a) Joseph’s wife; (b) Nobody; (c) In common with most quests given by townsfolk, it sure would be nice to get given the quest through a conversation that does not amount to “Oh, you have broken into my home! You are exactly the type of person required for this problem I have”. Unlock the door at least... RE. 2 & 10: (a) Berrun Ghastkill, as representative of the common folk of Nashkel. (b) He has one incongruous line of dialogue in which he scorns “superstitious” miners “prone to exaggeration” about “demons”, and worries only about the state of the iron. I would edit the aforementioned line so it matches the rest, and he still expresses concern about the missing miners; (c) This is the main quest, and both parts work fine. RE. 3, 4, & 9: (a) Taerom Fuiruim, albeit after the fact; (b) Emerson, who is the owner of the mine; (c) 9 is part and parcel of killing Mulahey and solving the main quest. But 3 is solved upon picking up a vial, and 4 is solved upon giving a vial to Taerom Fuirium. Giving a vial to Taerom offers no reward of XP or GP, which should be changed. The vials are found on level 2, before any real increase in difficulty, and it marks a good waypoint for a low-level character wanting to interact with the plot (much like the Joseph quest). But the behaviour of Emerson during this quest is odd. He has to remain vague about what is in the mines in order to preserve the mystery, and he can be a little bit in denial/uncaring about the missing miners, but he doesn't much seem to care about the mine he owns! He should clearly supplement the reward offered by Berrun Ghastkill. There is also already a second copy of the vial of mysterious liquid to give to him partway through the investigation. RE. 5 & 11: (a) Nobody; (b) Oublek; (c) This is simple. Oublek is an employee of the Amnian military. He should care about missing/dead soliders. He awards bounties. The soldiers/corpses could be found on level 3 or on the putative additional level, so there is more content before the chapter-end battle. RE. 6: (a) Gorion’s Ward; (b) Nobody (players should be ‘surprised’ by Xan’s presence); (c) Yes. Xan can be made available towards the end of what is currently level 3 - mods should not make it more difficult to access companions! There need only be two specific references to Mulahey scrubbed from his dialogue. RE. 7: (a) Xan/Gorion’s Ward; (b) Nobody; (c) Perhaps the Moonblade is in Mulahey’s chest, or perhaps it is on the additional level, if one is ever made. Either way, separating it from Xan makes it in into a nice little quest (heck, perhaps it finds its way out of the mines somehow...). RE. 8-14: (a) Gorion’s Ward, Khalid and Jaheira, Xzar and Montaron, Officer Vai, Elminster, and so on (b) Nobody; (c) It’s the chapter end battle with Mulahey. Nothing more to add other than a further slight increase in difficulty in terms of strength and numbers, and the lead to the Cloakwood Forest (albeit perhaps only via Tranzig). The only thing to add is that I am not a fan of adding additional gold to a game already overflowing with it, so I would reasign some of the 5000gp reward for killing Bassilus. Methods of completing the Nashkel Mines for those less keen on an increase in difficulty (1) The player already has the ability to control the difficulty by means of the dialogue with Mulahey. Show mercy, and you will face a further helping of his summoned allies; (2) I’ve talked about adding an additional level. I like the idea of any additional level including a difficult set-piece encounter that the player can avoid, at least if the level is non-linear; (3) In the Valley of the Tombs there is a rear entrance to Mulahey’s lair, or at least I assume that the area could be modded so that the one-way exit becomes an entrance as well. It certainly makes sense – just exactly how is Tranzig popping in and out of the mines otherwise without being noticed? Perhaps the player finds out about it from Xan, from a rescued Amnian soldier, from an NPC, or of course by doing the Bandit Camp or Cloakwood first. The reference doesn’t have to be so explicit as to give the exact location.

The main change I want is for Gorion’s Ward to be encouraged to earn their spurs through generic low-level adventuring before applying themselves to solve the bigger problems facing the Sword Coast. Only this time, the aforementioned problems will be more of a challenge, and will live up to the billing they are given by the plot and by the dialogue. The player will have greater freedom in terms of the direction that they take, but all paths begin to uncover the wider conspiracy. There will also be time to adventure for wealth and magic items in dungeons like Firewine, because I figure that anyone tackling a sprawling conspiracy threatening a whole region should be reminded of the need for decent gear! The low-level adventuring is provided in the corridor of Farmlands – Wyrm’s Crossing – Fishing Village – Friendly Arm – Coast Way / Lion’s Way / Candlekeep – Beregost – South Beregost Road – North Nashkel Road – Nashkel / Nashkel Carnival – Nashkel Mines. As has been pointed out, the south and the detour to the Gnoll Stronghold is similar, obviously having been designed to allow for recruiting Minsc, Edwin, and Dynaheir before or after the Nashkel Mines. And it is while travelling in this corridor that Gorion’s Ward is told by all and sundry of the twin drivers of the Iron Crisis: bandit raids and tainted ore. In my view there is only one thing in terms of the plot that makes the Nashkel Mines the more likely focus for closing out Chapter 2: As an aside, I would like to see minor randomisation of the starting location of these and a few other NPCs (from a creative standpoint, it’s easy to write), but that is not something for this proposed mod. There is also the fact that Chapter 2 conspicuously begins on arrival in any of the three Nashkel areas, but it's not a plot point in itself. I think it’s clear that the Nashkel Mines are the area that requires the most attention in order for the open world concept to work well (see for example the second paragraph of my second post). I think that the SCS components ‘Improved kobolds’ and ‘Tougher chapter-two end battle’ already do a very good job of increasing the difficulty, albeit while respecting the fact that the battle with Mulahey marks the beginning of Chapter 3. I would like to build on that, and I have a few ideas about how to increase the difficulty. I would want to do little with levels 1 and 2, as they’re pretty good for building the plot. The question is whether levels 3 and 4 provide enough space, or another level is needed. I would not look into creating an original area, and none of the exisiting levels are suitable for duplication, but I am considering the possibility of using the Werewolf Caverns map as the starting point for an additional level. But I didn’t quote you in order to disagree with you; I think you (and Jastey) are absolutely right. This is exactly what I had planned. It’s simple, and it’s how Baldur’s Gate already works. Of course Mulahey writes to Tazok; the player just doesn’t see those letters because they are not needed to advance the existing plot. And does Davaeorn not write to Mulahey, and vice-versa? I thought about having each location have two potential clues, one to each of the other two locations, with the actual clue generated in each game left to chance. But that is just too much hassle, especially given the additional text screens required. I think that after getting to Chapter 3 and finding Tranzig, the route to both Chapters 4 and 5 should be attainable. Notwithstanding my comments at the beginning of this post, this is right on the money, although I think that there is very little chance that a player would somehow miss the Nashkel Mines, the Bandit Camp, and the Cloakwood Mines. But, on a closely-related note, I have thought about the importance of ensuring that the player doesn’t feel isolated from the main plot, or forced to trudge through generic low-level adventuring that is of little interest to them in order to level up to face the main plot. But I believe that I have the solution to both of these problems, for Nashkel, Bandit Camp, and Cloakwood, so I’ll just put them out there. I think that the solution is (a) to ensure all of these locations incorporate separate mini-quests that advance or complement the main plot, but can be completed before the chapter-end battles; and (b) to ensure that all of these locations have alternative routes that can be followed in order to complete a chapter without endless higher-difficulty encounters, in case that kind of thing is not appealing to the player at that time. But the great thing about these ideas is that, to a certain extent, they already feature in the game! The trick is to make them a little more prominent. I put forward this idea in general terms in relation to the Cloakwood Mines; it’s in paragraph 5 of my fourth post. Bear in mind that the quests for Khalid, Jaheira, Xzar, and Monty end with checking in with Berrun Ghastkill; after that, there is no rush. It should be an option to blend the chapters together a little, while retaining a final showdown for each. Players should not feel that they have to complete the chapters in silos, nor should they feel bad at retreating now and then. It doesn't happen at the moment because of the linear plot and the general ease of the game. l'll elaborate on this in due course using Nashkel Mines as an example. If Baldur's Gate is to reopened with few modications, I've always been in favour of the route Jastey proposes. The route after the Bandit Camp has always been bizarre. There is no requirement to clear the camp, or to report its location to the Flaming Fist so that they can do so. Yet, for reasons unknown, Wyrm's Crossing will reopen after the Bandit Camp is dealt with - so long as the player journeys there via Cloakwood. It is nonsensical. As Jastey says, this her route is consistent with the plot, and I would add that the bandit activity taxed the resources of the Flaming Fist more than the trouble in the Nashkel Mines ever did. But my idea for Baldur’s Gate is actually to have Wyrm’s Crossing open, but the passage between the upper and lower halves of the city closed off. Moreover, many of the buildings would be magically locked, others locked with a high DC, and most of the commoners would be gone. Why? The damage to trade caused by the Iron Crisis and the doppelganger takeover of the other merchant consortions; the Flaming Fist being pulled in seventeen directions at once; and elusive murderers killing the citizens of Baldur's Gate with seeming impunity (and I'd wager the Fist would not patrol alone). The idea would be to use new areas, and replace them afer the plot is advanced, like the two versions of Candlekeep. I don’t know if that actually works with the way the world map is set up. The elusive murders are of course to be found in the sewers (which in my view can quite reasonably double in size), and who knows - perhaps the Sewer Ogre Mage is another tendril of the Iron Throne's disruption operation... they do employ them, after all...

Thanks @subtledoctor and @jastey for the replies! Making long posts on message boards as a newcomer sort of feels like shouting into the void, with the view-count ticking up and the post-count non-existent. And the particular worry in this instance was that what I want to do isn't remotely feasible, but nobody fancied telling me. That's why I'm asking the technical questions about the essential infrastructure (journal, chapter, dreams) from the outset; if what I want to do is wholly unrealistic, I don't want to invest any time in trying to mod. Before I forget, I should say that I'm aware of the Imoen4Ever mod and, like the Endless BG1 Mod - which I mentioned in the third paragraph of my third post, above - I think the concept is a really good one. Along with SCS, and some of the more interesting rule-tweak mods, it’s the kind of mod that piques my interest. Anyway, I think I'll make this a reply about the plot and game balance issues you both raise, and save the cross-mod compatibility issues for a subsequent post. I feel that the proper way to begin all of this is to consider the world that the writers devised, but ignore at this initial stage the decisions made regarding the specific order in which the plot is to be advanced. And I also think it important to proceed on the basis that the resulting game can equip any prospective player with the knowledge they need, regardless of whether or not they have played Baldur’s Gate in the past. With that in mind: The Sword Coast is a land in crisis, weakened by the iron plague and ravaged by bandits. The authorities in the lands controlled by Baldur's Gate and on the fringes of Amn are beset by a perfect storm of challenges they find themselves unable to meet, in part because of the deepening mistrust between the two nations. Recall that the Flaming Fist are sent to garrison Beregost in case of Amnian attack, and Amn is wracked by "the Sythillisian uprising", during which time I imagine a border town like Nashkel was left to fend for itself. Gorion's Ward awakens bereaved, alone, and pursued by powerful assassins for reasons that are entirely unknown. They may seek safety in numbers, to hide in plain sight among the masses, or to fade away in the wilderness. Yet, as their bio makes clear, they have longed to live the life of an adventurer, and to expand their horizons beyond the walls of Candlekeep. There can be no doubt whatsoever that Gorion's Ward will pit themself against the forces causing the iron crisis, uncover a wider conspiracy, and track down and unmask the masterminds behind what will be an unfolding mystery – a journey which will take them to the city of Baldur’s Gate. In the process, they will dream unsettling dreams, gain strange new powers, and face further assassination attempts. In a strange twist, their path will ultimately lead back to Candlekeep, where these disparate threads coalesce into a story with only one conclusion: a fight to the death in a ruined temple to a dead god, hidden beneath the very foundations of Baldur’s Gate. The question is, where do they start? And, with respect, I think that Nashkel is the wrong answer. But I think that the Bandit Camp is also the wrong answer, as is the Cloakwood Forest. I think these answers are all something of a red herring - not to Gorion's Ward, but to us. In reality, Gorion's Ward will test themself by defeating hobgoblins, gnolls, ogrillons, ogres, and spiders, in the process returning items to their owners, or claiming those items as the spoils of conquest. As players, I don’t believe we should think about if Gorion’s Ward has any leads, because I think we should remember that there is (apparently) no suggestion of a conspiracy until the beginning of Chapter 3. In my view, the whole point of doing this would be that there is no correct answer about where Gorion's Ward should start! And I’m glad that going to the city of Baldur’s Gate early was mentioned, because I think that the plot can allow that to happen even from the beginning, albeit subject to significant restrictions. It would really open up the world, wouldn’t it? How about being able to recruit Skie, Yeslick, Faldorn, Xan, Coran, and basically everybody in Chapter 2, albeit again subject to some restrictions? Sounds good to me. I was hesitant to mention going to Baldur's Gate early because I assume that this may take a lot of work, but heck, seeing as it was suggested... Anyway, I’m going to post what I've written and come back to this thread fairly shortly, at which point I will make a few more concrete suggestions, involving fewer words.

I've gone back to the issue of the dreams not triggering smoothly from a visual standpoint, and it is now sorted to an acceptable standard (I've edited the code in the spoiler second from bottom in my previous post to reflect the changes). Previously, the sequence was: Rest Movie ---> FadeToColor([0.0],0) ---> Dream Text Screen ---> FadeFromColor([20.0],0) ---> Wake up with the rooms menu open (if resting at an inn). It is now: Rest Movie ---> FadeToColor([35.0],0) ---> Dream Text Screen ---> FadeFromColor([40.0],0) ---> Wake up with the rooms menu closed (the store as a whole is closed). The FadeToColor at 35 makes the switch from dark colours (rest movie), to lighter colours (the normal screen), and back to dark colours (the dream itself) far easier on the eye, and the subsequent FadeFromColor basically mirrors the previous FadeToColor. But getting rid of the rooms menu on waking really makes the sequence look far, far better. Note that the change means that clicking the "Rest" button at an inn (on the screen where it asks "are you sure you wish to rest?") will always close the store, regardless of whether a dream is queued up. This seems like a feature, not a bug; I bet that countless hours have been wasted by players the world over being forced to click to close the store the morning after resting. How does this all sound to other people? I'm still curious about whether it's possible to disable and re-enable the on-rest movie mid-game with BCS script, but that seems less important now. I am far more interested in the general robustness, or otherwise, of the code I've used and the assumptions made. All input is appreciated!

I don't really have anything to add about Diablo. For the most part, @temnix, I was/am happy to discuss matters outside of the scope of the intial technical question(s) I asked! I only split my reply to you into a separate thread because I didn't want it to get in the way of any replies regarding the technical question posed. Because the fact is that sometimes people get technical help when they ask for it, and sometimes they don't. Yes, people have other things to do with their lives than answer questions on forums, and yes, strangers are less likely to receive help than acquaintances. But there's more to it than that. And I figured that when the intial question is already a wall of text, I may be better served not adding further walls of text that aren't strictly related to the technical issue - regardless of how interesting the discussion might be : ) While I'm here, I will respond briefly to the point about the Bandit Camp feeling like a bit of a letdown after Cloakwood. For me, the Bandit Camp is far more difficult than Cloakwood, at least if CHARNAME stands and fights rather than infiltrating the place and running away after finding Tazok's letters. Bear in mind that my comment assumes that SCS is installed, with better calls for help and the tougher end of chapter battles - and with the Bandit Camp, the whole area is one big end of chapter battle! Sure, some players might not install SCS, and some players might not be interested in the main plot walking the walk in terms of difficulty. But they are not the demographic I would be catering for. There are two exceptions, or potential exceptions, to my comments about relative difficulty in the Cloakwood: Drasus' party, and Davaeorn himself (certainly if the SCS improvements are used for these encounters). But then, if CHARNAME hasn't already wiped the floor with Mulahey, and caused all kinds of commotion at the Bandit Camp, why would Drasus and co. be at the Cloakwood Mines in the first place? Both his dialogue and the letter he carries make it crystal clear that he was deployed there in anticipation of CHARNAME's arrival. As for Davaeorn, perhaps the more interesting question to be asked is why, in a more open world, does CHARNAME have to paint the walls of every level of the Cloakwood Mines red with blood on first sight of the place? The answer is that they don't. Perhaps they could sneak in and rescue Yeslick, and return to finish the job after gaining a few levels. And I have several more ideas of things that can be done in the mines before flooding them. Of course, on returning to the Cloakwood, no doubt CHARNAME would find Drasus in their way (and of course, if CHARNAME flooded the mines on their first visit, no doubt Drasus would pop up elsewhere...). Yes, it is necessary to achieve some kind of balance in the game. But people frequently complete the game solo on insane difficulty, so there is plenty of scope to ramp up the difficulty in a few places so that one does not end up with the kind of letdown to which you refer! After all, the game was designed with an XP cap of 89k in mind, and without the additional items and loot from TotSC in mind. The more important thing is ensuring that the player still has easy quests and encounters with which to get themselves started. And as far as that is concerned, well, there are plenty of opportunities for that in Baldur's Gate. If the game was all about a linear plot, then changing a few things would throw the whole thing out of balance, but its because there is already so much else going on that the plot restrictions can be loosened up without unbalancing the game as a whole.

Heh, I should probably clarify that I, too, like Baldur's Gate 1 for what it IS, not just for the nostalgia or for visions of what it could be. I'm glad you mention the music, because I think the score for BG is fantastic. The music on Wyrm's Crossing, on the bridge itself, is just perfect for that moment in the game - it's truly majestic. As an aside, that sharpening of anticipation probably fed my sense of disappointment with the city of Baldur's Gate, which tends to be the point where my interest wanes (So, Scar, you want me to investigate the Seven Suns by... walking into their building and choosing ANY dialogue option? For which I get 2000 gold? Up to 6000 for killing 5 puny doppelgangers? When I am stinking rich already, and the shops in the big city are somehow less well-stocked than those I've already been to? Okaaaaaaaay). You mention revolutionary change but, like I said before, I don't think I'm trying to affect the same outcome as you. To the contrary, I like the idea of solving a problem by making a lot of smaller tweaks at the same time, all of which contribute towards solving the aforementioned problem (while maybe doing something else as well). Take the Iron Crisis, for example. I like it as a plot device, but I thought its (neglibile) effect on gameplay left a lot to be desired. And one can change that by addressing the issue from multiple directions. There are tweaks that make the Iron Crisis affect armour. SCS has a tweak that makes most +1 weapons non-magical and, optionally, affected by the Iron Crisis. With the right blend of tweaks - some of one's own devising; some which build on the work of others; some which a previous modder has already done perfectly - the existing game can start to look very different, albeit within those limitations which you mention. I agree that the AD&D rules can be an uncomfortable straightjacket but, again, there are tweaks which depart from the rules. I view the search for the right mix as akin in some respects to solving a puzzle, which can sometimes be an enjoyable way to pass the time. As far as the issue of modding the plot to add flexibility is concerned, one of the things that makes the prospect attractive is that it requires a fair number of different skills. It may be pure escapism, but it can be good to stretch oneself regardless. I don't really want to delve into the question of whether the community as a whole is appreciative of innovation. All I'll say is that I'm surprised at the extent of the interest in modding (and playing with) interjections, banter, friendship paths, romances and the like. It's not really my thing. Moreover, even in the best-case scenario, where the new content is pitch-perfect in almost every respect, it won't be voiced by the original actors! But I guess its a matter of taste. I also don't really get what it is that makes some ideas/problems attract help or comment (I mean aside from familiarity, or the limited time that others have), while others do not. The kind of thing produced by the community that makes me think "wow, that is great" is stuff like Jastey's Endless BG1. Back in the day I thought it was a real shame that I couldn't beat Sarevok, then move on to adventures new at Durlag's Tower. It kind of prices you into doing the TotSC content first, which is restrictive, and in turn makes Sarevok less of a challenge. From a technical standpoint, I don't know how difficult Endless BG1 was to produce. But I have to applaud the fact that it (a) makes sense; and (b) gives the player (and CHARNAME) precious choice. Anyway. While I can assure you that I am not looking for renown - either in general, or through modding Baldur's Gate - I can very well appreciate that everything else you said might be firmly on the nose. I may well decide that it's all too much effort. But at this point, I'm still by no means sure how much effort is actually required! And I should probably finish up by saying that, in the course of lurking, and digging for info to try to answer my questions, I've seen a few of your ideas, and they struck me as fantastic. Disguises? Sold. Sold sold sold. But I did read what you wrote, and I guess that me saying what I just said makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

Right. I’ve poked about some more, and I have “solved” my problem. Sort of. The code works within the game. But there is probably a lot wrong with the language I’ve used, and my solution is unsatisfactory in some respects, so any help is greatly appreciated. Before posting my code, I should note that I’m operating on a number of assumptions which could be wrong, so it would be great if anyone can tell me if they are wrong. The assumptions are spoilered: Given the assumptions I’ve made, I’ve written the following code (within spoilers). As I said, it does work. The journal works as in the vanilla game and advances through Chapters 2-5 regardless of the order in which the player (a) kills Mulahey; (b) steals Tazok’s papers; (c) kills Davaeorn. The player gets no more than one dream per night, and no more than one dream for each chapter, but can dream multiple times in one chapter if they need to ‘catch up’. The image, text screen, and audio matches whatever the player did to trigger the chapter transition. The ability awarded matches the player’s Rep when the dream happens. And the abilities are awarded in the same order as in the vanilla game (so CLW; CLW; Slow Poison; Slow Poision if ‘good’ throughout). Oh, a few quick questions/clarifications: (A) At multiple places my script has IncrementChapter("") then TextScreen("") on consecutive lines. The 2DAs to be referenced don't yet exist, but I obviously won't be using CHPTXT3.2DA and so on. I think this should end up as IncrementGlobal("Chapter","GLOBAL",1) then TextScreen("2DAFILEOFCHOICEONCESTRINGSMADE")? Given that I won't be using the 2DAs that the game would expect from IncrementChapter, might I be inviting trouble to try to use that action? (B) The 2DA files used in my dream scripting are the existing DRMTXT.2DA files (a) copied; (b) renamed; (c) with the MOS specified in line 2 so it doesn't go looking at BGEE.LUA and do something I don't understand. This was just for convenience while testing, but then I noticed something... (C) ... I noticed that using TextScreen on the existing DRMTXT.2DA files, as described above, preserves the existing functionality from the DRMTXT.2DA whereby the Rep of the player is detected and the correct string (and audio) is used. However, the award of the innate ability was not preserved. In theory, this is good, as it allows me to just use the one .2DA file for each dream (rather than needing two; one for Good Rep, one for Evil Rep). But... I don't understand why part of the functionality was preserved. Anyone? And should the lines for Good_Power etc be deleted, if they aren't doing anything? (D) The triggers used to begin a new chapter are identical to the vanilla game. Nothing needs checking there. (E) Text strings and quests relating to AddJournalEntry are irrelevant. I just left it in the script so I had visual feedback that things were working as I tested it. (F) I deleted innumerable EraseJournalEntry actions for brevity (from the script and/or what I'm posting here). (G) I've used the prefix BK_ in front of my global variables. BK_Dream works much like DREAM. BK_NMines_Done has values of 0 and 1, for whether CHARNAME has or has not killed Mulahey and taken his letters. BK_NMines has values of 2, 3, or 4, which correspond to the value of the CHAPTER global immediately before Mulahey was killed and his letters taken. Cloakwood and Bandit Camp are treated in exactly the same way. Everything else has descriptive names and should I think be understood as it is read in context. Phew. So, here it is (sorry, written with actual Notepad): At the beginning of the game (in ch1cut04.BCS): (Bit I added is in bold. This is the last of the Gorion cutscenes at the end of the Prologue. I think that this is needed somewhere so my code doesn't try to play dreams in Chapter 1. Is it better placed somewhere else?) On entering Nashkel to trigger Chapter 2 (in AR4800.BCS): (Bit I added is in bold. In theory the dream in Chapter 2 can be done by the unmodded game, but letting that happen and having the player begin Chapter 3 without having dreamt is hassle, as you end up juggling two dream globals at the same time. In contrast, the code for the modded flexible sequence can already handle this scenario, so it's better if the modded code also handles the Chapter 2 dream. Note that I aware that I need similar code elsewhere in AR4800.BCS, in the scripts for the Nashkel Carnival and the Nashkel Mines exterior; there's just no point in posting (or writing) it right now. If it is theoretically possible to reach them during Chapter 1, I will need something similar in the Bandit Camp and Cloakwood Mines exterior. Killing Mulahey in Nashkel Mines to trigger a new chapter (in AR5405.BCS): (No point in showing script for AR5404.BCS as well, but I know it needs similar lines) Stealing Tazok's letters in the Bandit Camp to trigger a new chapter (in BALDUR.BCS): (I just stuck this where the existing lines were in BALDUR.BCS. Note that SetGlobal("CDLetterCheckscrl2z","GLOBAL",1) happens in AR1901.BCS) Killing Davaeorn in Cloakwood to trigger a new chapter (in AR1803.BCS): (There is another script, ENDCHA4.BCS, that also advances the chapter upon the death of Davaeorn. However, I don’t think it’s possible to trigger the code… I think it is orphan code that used to be attached to the lift in BG1, but I’m not sure. Anyone know about this?) Is it just me, or is RevealAreaOnMap("AR0900") // Wyrm's Crossing pointless script? I'm sure my unmodded game begins with Wyrm's Crossing already revealed... Either way, it was in AR1803.BCS, and it's a useful stand in for "action that needs to happen when my flexible plot merges with the rigid plot" (if Chapter 5 is the point in the game for that to happen). Tracking and triggering the dreams and award of innate abilities (in BALDUR.BCS): (Script is written as if the game stops at Chapter 5. I either need a line to shut off my dream cycle, or I need to allow my dream cycle to handle the Chapter 6 and Chapter 7 dreams. The latter is probably better. Seems easy enough) I really have no idea if the dream script in particular is any good. Also, there are two specific issues I can identify: (1) BALDUR.BCS already uses a PartyRested() action, which I deleted while testing my dream script: I'm not 100% on the best way to re-enable this functionality with my dream script, and whether to change SmallWait at all given the additional code. (2) The dreams do not trigger as smoothly as I would like. In the vanilla game, when a dream triggers, the dream text screen replaces the on-rest movie. With my current implementation, the on-rest movie plays, then the screen returns to normal, and then the dream text screen plays. I really don't mind the on-rest movie playing first (I may actually even prefer that). But I hate, hate, HATE having a noticeable return to the post-rest screen in between the on-rest movie and the dream text screen! The sequence looks particularly bad when resting at an inn, because you "wake" to the inn's rooms menu. That is behaviour from the vanilla game that I would like to see removed. Can this be done? The FadeToColor and FadeFromColor was my first attempt at addressing the overall problem, and it is not great. The FadeFromColor helps a little, but should probably be slower. The FadeToColor is terrible, although I haven't tried slowing that down as well. I was also wondering if it is possible to either (a) have the rest action always implement a FadetoColor; or (b) dynamically disable the on-rest movie during a game when a dream is due to play, and re-enable the on-rest movie afterwards? In the latter case, note that my script has a dream happen 100% of the time when my BK_Dream global is lower than the CHAPTER global, so that probably helps matters somewhat.

I started a thread here https://www.gibberlings3.net/forums/topic/32579-discussion-on-modding-bgee-so-that-the-main-plot-is-more-flexible/ to reply to Temnix and split any general discussion away from the specific problems I'm trying to solve. Hopefully that's not too greedy... All input on that thread is welcomed : ) @kjeron thanks for the clarifications; they are much appreciated. I feel a bit stupid for overlooking that the audio for the text screens is dealt with in the same way as any other audio associated with a text string. I kind of had a tunnel vision on the idea of it being hard-coded because I couldn't find any scripting for the dreams. Never mind. The way that the backgrounds are specified in BGEE.LUA is a bit weird. It's fine for the chapter transitions and dreams because its consistent, in that line 2 of the 2DA is blank, and BGEE.LUA has the details of the .MOS. It gets a bit weird with "ARRIVE" and "LEAVE" (these are the ones for the Isle of Balduran). Unlike the chapter and dream text screens, these text-screens are triggered with the normal TextScreen action, and there is a reference to the MOS in both BGEE.LUA AND line 2 of the 2DA. The references in the 2DA are, respectively, "8" and "9", which sort of corresponds to [58] and [59] in BGEE.LUA, but... why not "58" and "59" in the 2DA files? And why is any reference needed at all in the 2DA, if it is specified in BGEE.LUA, and the chapter and dream text screens can get away without only a reference in BGEE.LUA? Confusing. To me, at least. I think I've solved most of my scripting problems, but probably badly, and now there are new ones. I'll post what I have fairly shortly.

@temnix wrote a post in the original thread in the Modding Q&A sub-forum; I'm pasting and replying to it below: Perhaps I’m underestimating the amount of work required for what I want to do, but I have my reasons for wanting to try. There are other games, but this one has a nostalgic value to me that others do not (and cannot) have. And while I could in theory create my own plot, and design my own rule system, tweaking an existing plot and rule system is far, far easier. Finally, while I don't have the technical skills required to get involved in game design as a profession, I hope I do have the ability to learn to apply existing tools and knowledge provided by others (Near Infinity, Weidu, the IESDP, etc) to accomplish what I want with Baldur’s Gate. So, really, while your proposed option – pouring effort into a new game – may be the correct choice for some people, but I don’t think it’s a realistic prospect for me. My options are actually (a) carry on with Baldur’s Gate; or (b) give up. I also think you may be overestimating the extent to which I'm willing to try to change the game. I'm not aiming to try to "turn these games into something completely different, nor force players to take the role-playing aspect seriously", as you said you were looking at doing; I just want to loosen up some artificially-imposed restrictions. I understand why the game was designed with a linear plot, but it reduces my desire to play the game again. Of course, the interesting thing about Baldur's Gate is that the game world is already fairly open. But, in my opinion, the satisfaction derived from that freedom is constrained because: (a) the plot still tries to railroad you into going to the Nashkel Mines straight away; (b) the plot tells you the Nashkel Mines are a scary pit in which Amnian soldiers and adventurers are disappearing; (c) makes the Nashkel Mines easy enough to complete with level 1-2 characters, which makes going there at mid-levels a snooze-fest; and (d) prevents you from addressing the bandit problem before doing the mines, while at the same time often assuming that, if you are off the beaten track of the Candlekeep -> Friendly Arm Inn -> Beregost -> Nashkel route, you are in Chapter 3. It could be a lot better. The obstacles you cite, and the examples given, are noted and understood. I believe that the existing audio can be edited to produce text screen voice-overs which make sense for any of 6 alternative pathways through Chapters 2-3-4-5 but, if not, I'm willing to lose the audio (or, more likely, have the first 1-2 sentences of the text screen accompanied by a voice-over; something the game already does with NPC conversations). However, I view the dream sequences as integral to Baldur's Gate, so if I can't get them to work as intended then it's time to give up! I think that the only "chunk of the world" that "falls out" with a less linear plot is the sense of uncovering a mystery layer-by-layer. Yet that sense doesn't go away entirely and, in my opinion, the trade-off is well worth it (for a modded game looking to maximise replayability; perhaps not so much for a commercial venture). Happy to discuss this in more detail!

[Edit] My ideas for this proposed mod developed both during the course of this thread and in the 11-month interim between what is currently the last post in this thread and the making of this edit. In particular, the proposed mod - which I'm now calling "Baldur's Gate: Open World" - has expanded in scope to allow for Chapter 2 to be triggered in six additional ways, and Chapters 2-6 to be completed in any order. Note that while many of my ideas from pages 1-3 of this thread remain on the table, some ideas do not. [/Edit] I am interested in modding BG:EE so that the main plot is more flexible (at the very least, the player can complete the Nashkel Mines, Bandit Camp, and Cloakwood Mines in any order). I posted a query about a related specific technical issue in the Modding Q&A sub-forum, and the responses broadened the thread into a more general discussion of obstacles facing anybody wanting to mod BG:EE in this fashion, and the pros and cons of trying to do so. I think that there might be an interesting discussion to be had but, either way, I wanted to put that in a different thread. So: Would anybody be interested in playing BG:EE were it modded so that the main plot is more flexible? Exactly how much effort would it take to mod the game in this fashion? And what, in your view, would the pros and cons of such a mod be? The original thread is here: https://www.gibberlings3.net/forums/topic/32558-modding-chapter-transitions-and-dream-sequences-in-bgee-edited/

I just wanted to say that while I think that many of these ideas make for good gameplay, some of them seem more worthwhile to mod than others. For example, while I agree that stealing from stores is ridiculous, it's easy for me to manage that by either (a) not stealing at all, or; (b) stealing a few items before deciding that my thief has done all that they "should" get away with that game. On that basis, I think that the time spent on adjusting the stealing mechanic is probably better spent elsewhere. My position changes if you're able to introduce critical failures for stealing, and some kind of consequence upon failure, as that's the kind of thing a player can't easily duplicate by their choices. In contrast, I think that a global change to reduce the effectiveness of kiting would be brilliant, and if you modded the game to make all enemies move slightly faster (with their animations changed to match) then I would bite your hand off to install that mod. While this obviously wouldn't eliminate kiting as an option (as Bartimaeus pointed out), it would make it a little clearer to the player when they are kiting. And, to me at least, that is important, because dispersing and retreating from melee-users in order to wear them down with ranged weapons is a legitimate tactic that should still be open to players. But if those melee-users have been modded to move faster than you, and they still aren't landing a blow, then that tells a player who wants to play fair that it's time to say "oops, you caught me", and to make at least one party member engage in melee. I think that the use of timers for specific quests could also be a good idea, so long as you're up-front about what is happening before people install (and the journal and/or other characters are used to clearly inform the player about what is going on during the game). But one thing you have to be careful about is that introducing timers doesn't accidentally make it easier for the player. Take for example Chapter 7 in BG1. Let's say you add a timer by fixing the date and time of Sarevok's attempt to assasinate Grand Dukes Belt and Liia, with the consequence being that the player loses the game if they don't get to the coronation on time without the necessary invitations and proof. You can inform the player of this via specific in-game dialogue about Sarevok's impending coronation, and you can enforce your timer by having Flaming Fist Bill "know" when the coronation is due to take place (and therefore when he should and should not let the player into the Ducal Palace). But what happens if the player is running ahead of your timer by at least 8 hours? If the timer is fixed, then the player is going to have to rest. And if the player rests, then they will heal and memorise spells. And if the player was observing their own timer, and going through Chapter 7 without resting in order to increase the difficulty, then your mod will have messed that up, and accidentally made things easier for the player. So it isn't entirely straightforward. I hope that offers some food for thought, anyway. Maybe I should add that I read the discussion between subtledoctor and Bartimaeus, and I understand the former's point. I'm absolutely not saying that there is no reason to tweak stealing from stores because I can use willpower; I'm saying that it seems less of a priority, as it is easier for the player to self-manage their own limitations on the mechanic.

Thanks for taking the time to respond @temnix ; it’s very much appreciated. On the technical side of things, I’m aware of the CHAPTER global and can see references to it governing the likes of Teven, Raiken, Tranzig, and Officer Vai. As for the chapter transitions themselves, I can see where conditions for triggering the transitions are checked and the IncrementChapter function is used. For example, with the Chapter 2-3 transition, I can see that both AR5404.BCS and AR5405.BCS check for Mulahey’s death and/or whether the party has SCRL2V.ITM. As far as BALDUR.BCS is concerned, I see IncrementChapter used on the CHAPTER global only for the Chapter 3-4 transition (together with a check for SCRL2Z.ITM). The confusion on my part, as I tried to make clear in my intial post, is over the location of any of the scripting regarding the DREAM global, and where the game tells itself specifically to look for the audio and visual accompaniment for the text screen when incrementing the CHAPTER global (edit: or indeed for any text screen). For example, with the Chapter 4-5 transition, after using IncrementChapter(“CHPTEXT5”), how does the game know to display GUICHP5A.MOS and to play CHAPTER4.WAV? It is from opening a saved game and looking at its globals that I was able to see that there is a DREAM global. But for one reason or another, whenever I try including a .GAM file in any kind of search, I end up with a recurring error message “Error reading BALDUR.GAM null”. and I have to restart NearInfinity. So I’m just lost at the moment, really. As for the rest of your points, they’re substantive and you/your points deserve an answer, but I’m going to hold off on that for a little while to see if anybody is willing to chime in on the technical side of things.

If we are talking about using backstab on unsuspecting targets, then I just choose not to use those tactics on mages or priests. It is less than ideal, but in those circumstances it is easy to account for the drawback so that SCS does what it is intended to do and allows enemies to prepare. I feel that the problem is more pronounced when a caster sees the party and combat begins. If I have autopause for when enemies are sighted then, much like declining to backstab so that SCS works as intended, I can similarly decline to target the mage until their pre-battle casting is finished. The difference here is that, as combat has begun, I cannot control the consequences of my decision to let SCS work as intended, and the end result is that enemy mages benefit more from my decison than SCS intends, and more than I intend. The problem is that enemy mages don't say 'right chaps, thanks for the pause, but I've got my buffs cast now, so let's roll initiative in 3... 2... 1. They just start casting and, in the absence of supernatural reflexes that let me pause the game at that point, mages end up getting a head-start in what they want to do. This scenario can be worse when the party has used its actions on other hostile creatures. I just wonder if it is feasible for the game to do something a little more invasive that basically makes the enemies and players play fair, so that combat as a whole effectively begins only after pre-battle casting has finished? Alternatively, if the pre-cast spells triggered the auto-pause in the same way that normal spells can (with that option enabled), then I think that would also be an improvement. Either way, I'm grateful for the component and plan to keep using it.

Quick post about a few things, tagged @DavidW as it contains a bug report (1) General praise This mod is amazing, and thank you so much for all the effort you have put into it. I cannot imagine ever playing BG without it again. (2) Bug report regarding BG1 Tactical Challenge: Improved Doppelgangers This component misses some of the doppelgangers in the Merchants' League Estate (Aldeth Sashenstar's quest). I poked around in Near Infinity and am fairly sure I can see where the oversight occured. In brief, there are 4 scenarios to trigger the dopplegangers: (1) attack Zorl; (2) attack Irlentree; (3) give Brandilar the incriminating letters taken from Zorl's office; (4) give Aldeth the incriminating letters taken from Zorl's office. The first three scenarios result in SetGlobal("ZorlDopple","GLOBAL",1), which (a) makes Zorl transform himself on the middle floor; (b) makes Irlentree transform himself and create 4 doppelgangers on the bottom floor; and (c) makes AR0129.BCS create 10 doppelgangers on the top floor. These scripts all result in the use of your new .CRE, dw#dopzo, which is fine. The problem is with Scenario (4). Giving Aldeth the incriminating letters taken from Zorl's office leads to State 29, Response 47, Action 12 in ALDETH.DLG, which starts aldcut02.BCS. This is the cutscene which puts the party, the 4 named characters, and 14 merchants on the top floor. The 14 merchants created by aldcut02.BCS are dopald.CRE, which use dopald.BCS. This BCS still uses DOPPLEGANGER_CHANGE2, so they end up turning themselves into the weaker versions of the doppelgangers (they even nerf Zorl and Irlentree, too!). (3) Pre-battle casting Just wondering if there is scope to amend this component so it (effectively) pauses combat until the pre-battle casting routine is complete? Could it trigger a cutscene, perhaps? The component is still pretty good, and I'm grateful for it, but it is awkward how the party's AI can take chunks out of enemy casters' defences before their pre-buffs are loaded. One can get around this to some extent by attacking other hostiles while waiting for the caster pre-buffs to load, but that uses up actions, so the player is less likely to be able to interrupt the enemy caster once its buffs are loaded up and the party has started to target the caster(s) again.

Perhaps this should be in 'General Mod Discussion'; apologies in advance if I've posted in the wrong sub-forum. Anyway, I'm hoping someone can confirm for me whether it's possible to mod the chapter transitions in BG:EE to the extent I want to mod them. I'm currently only at the stage where I'm poking about using NearInfinity and the IESDP to gain a rudimentary understanding of how things work, but I'm wondering if some of what I want to do is hardcoded. By 'chapter transitions', I mean the cut-scene (with image, text screen, and audio) that plays after the player completes a specific task, the creation of a new section in CHARNAME's journal, the dream sequence (again with image, text screen, and audio), and the award of a new innate ability. And what I'm looking to do is allow the player to complete the three tasks that trigger the transitions in Chapters 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 (kill Mulahey; steal Tazok's letters; kill Davaeorn) in any order they choose, with the completion of each task triggering a chapter transition and all that goes with it. Put differently, I want a game in which all of the following 6 pathways to progress the game are valid ones, instead of only the topmost one: Path 1 - Ch2: (CLW/LMD) Nashkel Mines - Ch3: (CLW/LMD) Bandit Camp - Ch4: (SP/H) Cloakwood Mines - Ch5: (SP/H) Baldur's Gate. Path 2 - Ch2: (CLW/LMD) Nashkel Mines - Ch3: (CLW/LMD) Cloakwood Mines - Ch4: (SP/H) Bandit Camp - Ch5: (SP/H) Baldur's Gate. Path 3 - Ch2: (CLW/LMD) Bandit Camp - Ch3: (CLW/LMD) Nashkel Mines - Ch4: (SP/H) Cloakwood Mines - Ch5: (SP/H) Baldur's Gate. Path 4 - Ch2: (CLW/LMD) Bandit Camp - Ch3: (CLW/LMD) Cloakwood Mines - Ch4: (SP/H) Nashkel Mines - Ch5: (SP/H) Baldur's Gate. Path 5 - Ch2: (CLW/LMD) Cloakwood Mines - Ch3: (CLW/LMD) Nashkel Mines - Ch4: (SP/H) Bandit Camp - Ch5: (SP/H) Baldur's Gate. Path 6 - Ch2: (CLW/LMD) Cloakwood Mines - Ch3: (CLW/LMD) Bandit Camp - Ch4: (SP/H) Nashkel Mines - Ch5: (SP/H) Baldur's Gate. In order for the alternative paths to make sense, I envisage creating 12 or 15 alternative cut-scenes to replace the existing 3 (without audio, or with a few phrases/sentences of the existing audio spliced together). I don't want to make any changes to the content of the dream sequences, but the specific dream that occurs will in effect need to be linked to the specific task completed (kill Mulahey; steal Tazok's letters; kill Davaeorn) rather than to an increment of the chapter. Finally, the specific innate ability awarded after a dream would ideally need to be de-linked from the dreams with which they are associated. Take for example a game that follows Path 5. I want the game to advance forward one chapter, which means that I want the game: (a) to choose and play a specific alternative cutscene with content recognising that CHARNAME has killed Davaoern, but has not yet killed Mulahey OR stolen Tazok's letters; (b) to create a new section in CHARNAME's journal titled 'Chapter Three' (not Chapter Five); (c) to play the existing dream sequence currently associated with killing Davaeorn and moving onto Chapter Five; (d) to give CHARNAME a second helping of CLW/LMD, which is consistent with what they currently receive for moving to Chapter Three, but not consistent with what they currently receive for killing Davaeorn (which would be SP/H). If in the next game I follow Path 1, I want the chapter transition after killing Davaeorn to happen more or less as it does in the vanilla game. I hope all of this makes sense? Using the Cloakwood Mines as an example, I see that the change in chapter after killing Davaeorn is triggered with IncrementChapter("CHPTXT5"), which points at a 2DA file with stringrefs for the name of the chapter and the content of the text screen (CHPTXT5.2DA). I see a similar 2DA file relating to the dream sequence (DRMTXT5.2DA), which also references the new innate ability to be awarded (SPIN102/SPIN105). I see the .WAV files and the .MOS files providing audio and image for the cut-scene (CHAPTER4.WAV and GUICHP5A.MOS) and the dream sequence (DREAM4G/E.WAV and GUIDRM5.MOS). Finally, I am aware from the .GAM files that there is a Dream Global Variable. But what I can't see is any script in which the game tells itself what .WAV and .MOS files to access, or how it tells itself to look at DRMTXT5.2DA, or makes any reference whatsoever to the Dream Global Variable. I'm hoping this is just because I don't yet know what I'm doing, rather than because what I eventually want to do cannot be done! Any clarifications will be very much appreciated.