Demivrgvs

Ok, we've not set everything into stone but most things seem decided up to 4th lvl spells. I'll put down a few more thoughts before moving to 5th lvl spells.

 

Acid Arrow

While I'm still uncertain regarding Flame Arrow as a whole (# of arrows, max dmg output, etc.), I'm quite certain I'd reintroduce its physical damage. I know Acid Arrow never had it, but what about adding a small 1d6 physical damage to it? I think it would really suit it and make more clear its concept as a Conjuration spell (in 3rd edition this spell even bypass magic resistance because it's considered a real arrow).

 

I'm obviously speaking of adding 1d6 dmg to the dmg output on hit (1d6 missile + 2d4 acid), the ongoing damage each round would remain unchanged (2d4 acid).

 

Contagion

I think I never used this spell in my life, not even after SR's buff. What do you think of it? Is there something I should do?

I use it on some necromancers, it is efficient on fighter. Despair is overall better, but Contagion also slows its target, which is a good point.

The problem is that Contagion's effects are only slightly worse than Emotion's ones, but the latter has a huge friendly AoE. Generally failing the save against single target "save or else" spells means the target is almost completely doomed (charmed, polymorphed, feebleminded, petrified, insta-killed, and so on) whereas in this case the target is severly hampered but can still pose a serious threat.

 

Long story short, this spell cannot truly compete for a 4th lvl spell slot imo unless:

a) on a failed save the disease effects are even more "damaging/disabling" than now

b) we add a secondary effect (e.g. a lesser disease?) with no save

c) we make it affect multiple targets (either via classic AoE or my suggested plague-like solution)

 

 

Speaking of Emotion vs Contagion again, one more thing we could do is adjusting their saves. Within V4 I'm going back to a more AD&D-like save penalty system (unlike V3 which makes all save directly tied to spell's lvl and only to that - a la 3rd edition), thus we may for example opt to have Emotion's save vs. spell at -2 penalty and Contagion's save vs. death/poison at -4.

 

Otiluke's Resilient Sphere & Polymorph Other

My enchanters use them a lot. First, it is almost impossible to script Otiluke's Resilient Sphere in a defensive goal. So I'm only using it as a disabler, like Polymorph other.

In that regard, Polymorph other is clearly better, so I only use Otiluke on some occasion for more variety.

Polymorph Other is a deadly spell. With proper detection spell on this one, an enchanter can totally disable several players, and combine with other enchantment spells, he can pretty cause havoc on party

Considering this lvl has a bunch of "must-have" such as Stoneskin and MGoI, I expected true Enchanters to fill the remaining 4th lvl spell slots with Confusion, Emotion and Malison.

 

Anyway, I do think Polymorph Other is a valid spell, I just don't know its true effectiveness because I couldn't use it much. Otoh Resilient Sphere isn't a valid option at all even after V3 improvements, though its defensive role can be effective sometime. Considering ORS doesn't harm the target at all, I'd probably vote to assign it a -4 penalty against its save, to make it at least appealing as an offensive save or else disabling spell.

 

Polymorph Self

Polymorph Self is a very important spell to me, as it allows mage to enter combat at low levels. But I haven't played with this spell since I haven't made any level 7+ transmuters yet.

This spell rocks within SR imo, and V4 will make it even more cool with Fire Salamander and Troll forms offering even more variety. It's really a shame SCS doesn't have dedicated Transmuters.

 

Simbul's Spell Matrix

As discussed elsewhere. We're seriously thinking to make all sequencer and contingencies innates at will abilities gained by mages at lvl up. It would make SCS fights more fair (SCS mages always have all triggers/contingecies ready), and it would eliminate the odd "rest - prepare triggers - rest again" routine I hear from most players (though I never did it).

This is a good idea, since for example, all these spells are a pain for sorcerer with their small limitation of spells.

And memorize, sleep, and then replaced by another spell, sleep again... painfull !!

Ok, it seems we have large consensus on this matter, which is good considering it's a pretty huge change.

 

I'll be back for 5th lvl spells asap.

There is really a lot going on here now.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg. ih ih ih Fortunately V3 is already a wonderful base, we can still do a lot, but at least it's not like the huge gap between IR V2 and V3 imo.

 

Flame Arrow

I would go for another solution: grant more arrows at early levels like you said but instead of being unharmed with successful save just lower the damage dealt instead.

We've discussed this more than you can imagine. There are tons of variables and we still haven't decided which solution is best. I'll try to put down everything to see if we can find together the solution.

 

Damage Type: we were discussing the possibility of reintroducing a small part of physical dmg (which is fine considering the spell is a conjuration), but I'm not 100% sure (Acid Arrow has always been fine as acid-only, why not Flame Arrow?). If we opt for re-introducing it I'd go with missile dmg instead of vanilla's piercing, and it shouldn't be half of the total dmg, but only enough to simulate an arrow's dmg, thus 1d6 per arrow.

 

Save for half damage or no damage: conceptually I think this save is supposed to simulate the missing "touch attack" (even Acid Arrow would need a hit roll in PnP, but for balance reason it's fine as it is imo). If you make the save you have avoided the arrow, if you fail the save you take full damage. Having the arrow still hit the target but deal half dmg on successful save make little sense imo. No? Not to mention that since V3 this spell consider each arrow separately, thus you still have to make many saves in a row to avoid all arrows!

 

Damage output: how much total damage is this spell supposed to do? Right now it deals "only" 1d6/lvl, but I think it should deal slightly more damage than Fireball considering the latter can hit quite a few targets with its huge AoE. The amount of damage though largely depends on damage type (two dmg types are more effective) and save type (if the save negates only half dmg than a smaller dmg output can be fine).

 

One very daring thought I just had could be of drastically lowering both dmg per arrow (e.g. 2d6) and total dmg, but making the spell not allow a save at all. This way the spell would work as a mix between Acid Arrow (no save) and Magic Missile (multiple hits, no duration).

 

Let me know what do you think of the various variables I discussed above, then I'll try to find the most balanced solution based on your feedback.

 

I wrote many other comments but this awful message system introduced after the unsatisfactory overhaul of the G3 board made it disappear somehow.

Nooo, sadness.

I guess we got used to you being absent, and then all of a sudden you're here full, and that's nice, but just gives us a chance to return ;-)

Yeah, sorry for that, I had a couple of very tough months.

 

Dire Charm

I'd love to make all charm spells as they should, but it all depends on ToBEx I guess.

Would be nice, what do you need?

I need the opcodes to work as they should. Right now the AI correctly can't control a charmed creature (only a dominated one) but when used by players even 1st lvl spell Charm Person allow full control. In theory the 1st lvl one shouldn't let you control the target, it should mainly work as a sort of daze/hold spell, or for quest related purposes (doesn't BG1 uses it in a bunch of circomstances?).

 

Dire Charm instead should add a sort of berserker state to the target, making him fighting on your side, but only in melee. Domination is the only charm spell working as it should, granting complete control over the target, spellcasting included.

 

Confusion

Disable it. 4th level needs space for new spells, and with Chaos on 5th I see no reason to keep Confusion.

As I told you in chat, Confusion is the most canonic of the two spells, thus I'm really against removing it.

 

Contagion

Emotion Despair beats it hands down. Change to Enervation.

Indeed Despair is a much better option. Contagion has slightly more appeal for the AI because players have to deal with its very long duration, but it's hard to find a slot for it anway considering all the great spells at this lvl (e.g. Stoneskin, Emotion, Improved Invisibility, Malison, Polymorph Self, etc.) are way more appealing.

 

Enervation is a really great suggestion imo but disease is a really underused effect within BG and I feel it's a pity to remove one of the very few sources of it.

 

What about making it a sort of lesser Plague (aka PnP Mass contagion)? Target creature can avoid getting sick, but still brings the incubation around potentially infecting nearby allies. Bad idea?

 

Dimension Door

Move to 5th level as a Greater DD. Caster receives an innate refreshable DD for a limited time. LOS is required.

So we have two options:

* moving the current version to a lower lvl (perhaps I'm mad but I'd say even 1st lvl could be fine, especially with Line of Sight limit)

* moving it to 5th lvl as you suggest

Let's see what players think about it.

 

Fire Shields

They are fine, but we're thinking of making them work "a la Spell Immunity", sharing the same spell slot and allowing the choice between the two "on the fly".

Will it still be possible to use Fire shield + BLue Shield in a sequencer in you do that ?

Yes. Making it work via sub-menu a la Spell Immunity was possible even before, but afaik ToBEx is now making possible to use those sub-spells via contingencies and triggers (making SCS mages not "cheat" anymore when using SI that way).

 

I'd prefer Elemental Shield ala NWN, with combined effect rather than selection menu. The second shield is moved to 5th level as Acid Sheath.

I kinda like the concept (mainly because I dislike the blue version of this spell), but in the end I think we'd mess too much with something all players got used to use and see. No?

 

Spirit Armor

I thought it was ok, but I the competition for that spell slot is tough. I'll think about possible small improvements.

 

Kit Revisions

And what about the fighter kit revisions?

I'm kinda stuck with the Wizard Slayer (and I also depend on Ardanis for a bunch of code related things), everything else is done.

Sigh, I was hoping for more feedback before moving to 4th lvl spells. Anyway...

 

Skull Trap

Set the casting time to 1 round. It's a "trap", so using it in combat should be more tricky.

I do think it would be very appropriate, almost a must. With a higher casting time and slightly smaller AoE compared to Fireball, I would finally not be bothered by Skull Trap having the higher damage output and better damage type (though a 3x ST sequencer would ignore the casting time tweak and still be clearly superior to a 3x FB).

 

It being a trap also compensates for lower damage than Fireball.

Early on, because later on it's actually more damaging. Anyway, my only doubt is the dmg output progression, I wanted to know if players prefer the current SR's solution or SCS one.

 

 

Fireball

I'm for keeping 30' radius. ST does more damage and can be set in advance, but FB is faster and covers larger area.

Fine with me.

 

Spell Thrust

You may be right. However, is there a point?

Each spell removal (lesser ones in particualr) need something to make it somewhat special, different from the others. For example Secret Word now belongs to a different school (Enchantment), and has the clear advantage of having an instantaneous casting time (as all PW spells). I think this spell could remain the only one able to bypass Improved Invisibility without the need of Detect Invisibility, TS or similar spells.

 

 

Break Enchantment

I really like what we did to the old Remove Curse. If I can I'll make it work against charms too.

 

Confusion

Many players asked to reduce the duration and I'm probably fine with it. My biggest concern though is finding a way to make Confusion and Chaos more different.

 

Contagion

I think I never used this spell in my life, not even after SR's buff. What do you think of it? Is there something I should do?

 

Dimension Door

I was thinking to move it to a lower lvl spell slot. With or without "line of sight" limitation it's simply not worth a 4th lvl spell slot imo, am I wrong? Then there's the neverending doubt above the just mentioned LOS and its potential game breaking behaviour.

 

Emotion: Despair

A very nice debuff against melee oriented parties, it probably doesn't need any change unless you want me to make it identical to PnP (aka a Mass Doom spell).

 

Enchanted Weapon

I'm changing its school from Enchantment to Conjuration as the concept and description suggest ("This spell conjures forth a +3 enchanted weapon..."). If you prefer I can rename it Magical Weapon, but it's really not a big deal imo.

 

Farsight & Wizard Eye

Really too much similar. I would at least make the latter an actual conjuration/summoned creature.

 

Fire Shields

They are fine, but we're thinking of making them work "a la Spell Immunity", sharing the same spell slot and allowing the choice between the two "on the fly".

 

Greater Malison

What about making it count as a not dispellable curse? It does fit the concept imo, and this buff may please those who didn't liked me making this spell as per PnP (aka halving the monstrous -4 penalty to saves). I'd obviously make Break Enchantment work against it.

 

Ice Storm

I think it's fine, but I'd like to know players opinion. Does many of you use this spell? How does it perform?

 

Improved Invisibility

It's fine as it is, and the tweaks to Detect Invisibility and TS will actually make it better.

 

Minor Globe of Invulnerability

It's obviously fine as it is.

 

Monster Summoning II & Spider Spawn

I'll discuss all summons in a separate topic.

 

Otiluke's Resilient Sphere

Did I do a good work on it? Is it fine now?

 

Polymorph Other

Did I do a good work on it? Is it fine now? This spell is really a pain to balance and I need your feedback.

 

Polymorph Self

The flaming halberd wielding Flind form will be replaced by a much better Fire Salamander form. I would add a Troll form, but it may not necessarily replace the Ogre form as the latter offer an option with a +2 blunt weapon (aka an anti-golem form).

 

Secret Word

I simply love what I did to this spell in V3.

 

Simbul's Spell Matrix

As discussed elsewhere. We're seriously thinking to make all sequencer and contingencies innates at will abilities gained by mages at lvl up. It would make SCS fights more fair (SCS mages always have all triggers/contingecies ready), and it would eliminate the odd "rest - prepare triggers - rest again" routine I hear from most players (though I never did it).

 

Spirit Armor

Is it fine as it is?

 

Stoneskin

It's obviously fine as it is.

 

Teleport Field

If I'm not wrong most of you think this spell should not allow a save as per vanilla, am I correct?

 

As a side note I will probably add a Dimensional Anchor spell.

I had nothing to do at work this morning thus I've used the spare time to continue a discussion I left hanging for really too much. Let's procede with 3rd lvl arcane spells!

 

Clairvoyance

I think V3 version is a really nice solution to create a unique and effective Divination spell, isn't it?

 

Detect Illusion

I have mixed feelings about this. At least the planned changes to Detect Invisibility will finally make this spell an alternative with really different properties, but I always thought this spell should actually be Dispel Illusions (that's what it does), which in PnP is an Illusion spell. If either SR or KR will ever offer an option to make opposite schools more rationale, making Illusion the opposite of Divination (and not the random Conjuration!) the change would be even more crucial. As always, feedback is welcome.

 

Dire Charm

I'd love to make all charm spells as they should, but it all depends on ToBEx I guess.

 

Dispel & Remove Magic

Back then there was a discussion about adding a cap (or at least a slower progression after 20th caster lvl) to these spells to prevent them being "the ultimate antimagic spell despite cheapness" for very high lvl characters...but in the end I guess we decided to do nothing, haven't we?

 

Fireball

Would you like its AoE to match PnP's 20 feet radius instead of vanilla's 30 feet? It may seem a nerf, but it doesn't necessarily is so for experienced players imo. A slightly smaller AoE allows a more controlled use of it, letting casters use it more often even close to the battle while more easily avoiding to hurt allies.

 

Flame Arrow

Now, this spell is a pain to balance. Both its vanilla and V3 version suffer of an unbalanced power lvl progression, which makes this spell a really poor choice early on, and a slightly OP 3rd lvl spell later on. After discussing it with Ardanis I'd suggest to make it grant more arrows more quickly (e.g. 1 arrow every 2-3 lvls), while we can balance its early dmg output by making the save negate all damage (you still have to make a separate save for each arrow!) and its later potential by capping it at a lower lvl (e.g. 12th caster lvl).

 

Ghost Armor

V3 made this spell more appealing imo, but I still feel something could be done to make it shine a little more, I just don't know what.

 

Halt Undead

I guess there's nothing to discuss here.

 

Haste & Slow

Custom secondary types will finally allow me to make them correctly cancel each other as they should. I'd love to make Haste grant "only" +50% movement rate, but I'm not sure I can. One thing I do want to do is making Slow actually work on non-warriors too, by making it halve the attack rate of creatures with apr 1 by 1/2. I'd dare to say this is a fix rather than a tweak!

 

Hold Person

I guess there's nothing to discuss here.

 

Invisibility Sphere

I'm unable to make it work as per PnP, but I think a small tweak can at least make it serve a purpose. I suggest to reduce its casting time to 1, but heavily nerf the duration down to 10 rounds. This way the spell won't be a cheap Mass Invisibility, but either a very fast "escape" option or a powerful choice for multiple mage-thief backstab combos.

 

Lightning Bolt

Unfortunately I still haven't found a solution which really satisfies me. Let's hope BGEE will make projectiles more "moddable".

 

Melf's Minute Meteors

I guess they are fine as they are. The only suggestion could be to make them deal 100% fire damage instead of missile+fire, but either solutions are fine imo (and both have pros and cons).

 

Minor Spell Deflection

The whole Spell Deflection/Turning system will be heavily changed as an optional component to work in a more consistent and effective way.

 

Monster Summoning I

We have discussed (and we will discuss) this more in depth in a separate topic. Let's just say I'd love conjurers to have a MS spell (or at least somthing similar) for each spell lvl (even 1st and 2nd lvl).

 

Non-Detection

As discussed here, I'll make it work much more similarly to PnP. When targeted by Detect Illusion, Oracle, or True Seeing the protected creature will be allowed to make a save, a successfull save means the divination fails, a failed save means DI/Oracle/True Seeing are able to detect the protected creature.

 

Protection from Missiles

This spell is considered OP by some players, but I don't see many alternative solutions (other than the current one, which more or less is as per Forgotten Realms PnP) to make it appealing. Btw, IR V3 makes Dispelling Arrow work against SR V3's PfM.

 

Skull Trap

I'd love to make it 100% as per PnP, but I can't because the AI wouldn't handle it well. I'm starting to think DavidW made a more balanced choice when we decided to nerf its dmg output (he used vanilla's 1d6/lvl but capped it at 12th caster lvl, I used PnP 1d4/lvl capped at 20th caster lvl). What do you think?

 

I'd also apply a relatively small conceptual tweak, making its damage count as necromantic negativy energy as per PnP. That means it won't harm undead creatures anymore (opening new tactics for necromancers) and we may also think about making Negative Plane Protection work against it.

 

Spell Thrust

I think this spell removal may actually keep its small AoE to keep it appealing. What do you think?

 

Vampiric Touch

This spell probably suffers the same (or similar) problem of Flame Arrow and Skull Trap, should we alter its dmg/drain progression?

 

Potion of Healing

Effects:

Cures 10 hit points

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: vanilla's potion cured 9 hp. I've also changed its base price from 75 to 25gp (keep in mind that within IR you don't get the huge 50% discount from having a high reputation).

 

Potion of Extra Healing

Effects:

Cures 30 hit points

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: vanilla's potion cured 27 hp. I've also changed its base price from 450 to 100gp.

 

Potion of Superior Healing

Effects:

Cures 50 hit points

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: vanilla's potion cured 40 hp. I've also changed its base price from 650 to 200gp.

 

Potion of Regeneration

Effects:

Drinker regenerates 1 hp per second for 60 seconds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: regeneration rate is 3 times faster but duration is 3 times shorter. I've also changed its base price from 500 to 250gp.

 

Antidote

Effects:

Cures poison effects

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: unchanged. Vanilla's base prices was 100, is it too high?

 

Elixir of Health

Effects:

Cures disease and poison effects, restores 10 hit points

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've made it cure blindness/deafness as per Cure Disease. In theory I'd like the elixir to not cure poisons, in order to make antidote potions more appealing, but I don't know if the AI can handle that (SCS AI does use this potion, and I suppose it gives such effect for granted). Vanilla's base prices was 250 and it seems fine.

 

Potion of Hill Giant Strength

Effects:

Drinker's STR is set to 19 for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: vanilla's potion lasted 10 turns instead of 1, but it was easily dispellable whereas all IR's potions are not dispellable. Base price still is vanilla's 300gp.

 

Potion of Stone Giant Strength

Effects:

Drinker's STR is set to 20 for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but I've changed its base price from 500 to 350gp. The difference between STR 19 and 20 or between 21 and 22 is marginal compared to the difference between 20 and 21, 22 and 23, or 23 and 24, and I've reflected this in their prices.

 

Potion of Frost Giant Strength

Effects:

Drinker's STR is set to 21 for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but I've changed its base price from 750 to 500gp.

 

Potion of Fire Giant Strength

Effects:

Drinker's STR is set to 22 for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but I've changed its base price from 1000 to 550gp.

 

Potion of Cloud Giant Strength

Effects:

Drinker's STR is set to 23 for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but I've changed its base price from 1250 to 750gp.

 

Potion of Storm Giant Strength

Effects:

Drinker's STR is set to 24 for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but I've changed its base price from 1500 to 1000gp.

 

Potion of Fire Resistance

Effects:

Grants +50% fire resistance for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: almost as per vanilla. The effect is now undispellable making it much more effective, but it can now be detected by the AI and removed by a Breach spell (and Pierce Shield for SR players). Duration is reduced from 10 to 5 turns. I've changed its base price from 400 to 250gp.

 

Potion of Cold Resistance

Effects:

Grants +50% col resistance for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but its base price already was 250gp.

 

Potion of Insulation

Effects:

Grants +50% electrical resistance for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: same as above, but I've changed its base price from 170 to 250gp.

 

Potion of Invisibility

Effects:

Drinker turns invisible for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've simply modified it to make it detectable as an 'illusionary protection', reduced the base price from 250gp to 150, and reduced the duration from 12 hours to 5 turns.

 

Potion of Defense

Effects:

Grants +4 AC for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Vanilla's version set AC to 0, while PnP has various versions which grant from +1 to +5 bonus to AC. I've opted for +4 AC and made it non-cumulative with itself. Cosmetically it's a "metallic" version of SR's Barkskin, and I'm also using vanilla's Ironskin portrait icon (not used anymore within SR). Duration has been reduced to 5 turns, and price from 700gp to 350.

 

Potion of Speed

Effects:

Drinker is hasted for 10 rounds

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Previously named Oil of Speed. Oils are applied upon a creature/item (which requires quite some time), they are not imbibed, and in PnP they were clever enough to make it a potion and not an oil. Duration is reduced from 5 turns to 1 turn. Price has been reduced from 500gp to 250.

 

Potion of Freedom

Effects:

Free Action for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've modified it to make it detectable as 'specific protection', while duration still is 5 turns. This is a rare case where vanilla's price seems too cheap to me. It was 250gp, but I've raised it to 400.

 

 

Potion of Clarity

Effects:

Immunity to charm, confusion & fear for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've only modified it to make it detectable as 'specific protection', and removable with Breach. Ironically it's completely different from PnP, because PnP Potion of Clarity grants True Seeing! Price has been reduced from 700gp to 500, while duration still is 5 turns.

 

Potion of Invulnerability

Effects:

Immunity to non-magical weapons, +2 bonus to AC and saves for 1 turn

Usable By:

Warriors

 

Notes: I've made it as per PnP. This potion now grants immunity to normal weapons, and +2 bonus to AC and saves; instead of setting AC to 0 and granting +5 to all saves. The effects last 1 turn instead of 5. Can still be used only by warriors, but I wouldn't mind to remove this restriciton. Vanilla's price was 1200, IR's one is 750.

 

Potion of Master Thievery

Effects:

Grants +20% bonus to Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Pick Pockets and Open Lockets for 5 turns

Usable By:

Thief

 

Notes: In vanilla it granted +40% to Pick Pockets and Open Locks, while in PnP it grants various bonuses based on user's level (a la aTweaks). Multiple uses of this potion won't stack anymore. Duration has been reduced from 15 turns to 5. Price has been reduced from 400gp to 200.

 

Potion of Perception

Effects:

Immunity to backstabs, +20% bonus to find/remove traps & detect illusions for 5 turns

Usable By:

Thief

 

Notes: In vanilla it granted +20% to Find/Remove traps, Pick pockets, Open Locks, and Hide in shadows. I've opted for +20% to Find/Remove Traps and Detect Illusions, plus 'immunity to backstab' which is very appropriate imo. Multiple uses of these potions won't stack anymore. Duration has been reduced from 30 turns to 5. Price has been reduced from 350gp to 150.

 

Oil of Fiery Burning

Effects:

Weapons coated with it deal 1d6 additional points of fire damage on contact - the effect lasts for 1 turn

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Completely changed from a lesser Potion of Explosions to something quite unique. Price has been reduced from 500 to 250.

 

Potion of Explosions

Effects:

Inflicts 6d6 points of fire damage to all within 30 feet from the point of impact (save vs breath for half damage)

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: almost unchanged, but I've made it bypass magic resistance and changed its base price from 450gp to 250.

 

Potion of Firebreath

Effects:

Target suffer 6d10 points of fire damage (save vs breath for half damage)

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Is vanilla's 6d10 points of damage too much? Price has been set to 250.

 

Potion of Heroism

Effects:

This potion is imbued with a powerful enchantment, which blesses the drinker with great bravery and morale in battle. The imbiber's morale is raised by 2, as well as attack and damage rolls. The potion also increases the recipient's hit points by 10%, and these bonus hit points are lost first when the recipient takes damage. Multiple uses of this potion are not cumulative. The effect lasts for 5 turns, and cannot be dispelled.

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've made it similar to its PnP version and set its price to 400gp.

 

Potion of Power

Effects:

This elixir blesses the imbiber with a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls, grants +20% to all thieving skills, and raises morale by 2. In addition, any spells cast after drinking this potion will be cast as if the caster were two levels higher. Finally, the potion increases the recipient's hit points by 20%, and these bonus hit points are lost first when the recipient takes damage. Multiple uses of this potion are not cumulative. The effects last for 5 turns, and cannot be dispelled.

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've made it similar to its PnP version and set its price to 1000gp.

 

Potion of Mirrored Eyes

Effects:

Immunity to all forms of gaze attacks for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: vanilla's description was misleading, as the potion worked more or less like a Potion of Protection from Petrification. I've made it work as it should. Current price is 200gp.

 

Potion of Sight

Effects:

Drinker is able to see in darkness as easily as in daylight, and detect invisible creatures. The imbiber is also cured from any form of blindness and is immune to it for the duration of the effect, which is 1 turn

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Infravision. I've made it work as per PnP. Price is 300gp.

 

Potion of Stone Form

Effects:

Grants 5 layers of stoneskin for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Completely changed, as it previously set AC to 0, lowered DEX by 3 and improved saves by 3. I hope your warriors will like it! Btw, I've set its price to 500gp.

 

Potion of Absorption

Effects:

Grants +20% physical resistance for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: it was more or less another inconsistent potion of electrical resistance. I've completely changed it and set its price to 400gp.

 

Potion of Magic Resistance

Effects:

Grants +20% magicalresistance for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: I've renamed it as per PnP, Potion of Magic Resistance (instead of Potion of Magic Protection which was confusing imo). In PnP this potion has 5 doses, each granting a +10% non-cumulative bonus to magic resistance for 4d4 rounds (1 turn on average). In vanilla it granted +50% bonus for 10 turns, though being easily dispellable made it pretty weak agains non-vanilla AI (e.g. SCS's one). I've opted for +20% bonus, non-cumulative with itself, but cumulative with other sources. I've set its price to 500gp.

 

Potion of Magic Shielding

Effects:

Grants +50% resistance to all forms of magical damage, and guarantees drinker will always be successful when rolling saving throws. The effects last for 1 turn, and cannot be dispelled.

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: In PnP it doesn't grant 50% resistance to elemental and magic damage (successfully saving against damage-dealing spells already do that) and I'm not too much against it, let me know what you think. This incredibly powerful potion shouldn't have a duration higher than 1 turn imo, and its price has to be considerably high, 1000gp.

 

Potion of Magic Dispelling

Effects:

Dispell all magical effects on the drinker

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Magic Blocking (too much powerful effect for a potion, and there's a green scroll doing the same thing). Following aVENGER suggestion I've turned it into a "simple" dispelling potion (with 100% chance to work), and no anti-magic effects. Its price is reduced to 300gp.

 

Potion of Rage

Effects:

The drinker gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls, a +2 bonus to damage and a +2 bonus to saves vs. spell. However, the enraged character is also unable to perform actions that require concentration, like casting spells or using thieving skills. The effect lasts for 1 turn, and cannot be dispelled.

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Strength. Potion price is 150gp.

 

Potion of Evasion

Effects:

The drinker can evade the effects of the following spells: Burning Hands, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Call Lightning, Flame Strike, Cone of Cold, Sunfire, Chain Lightning, Delayed Blast Fireball and all forms of Dragon's Breath. The effect will last for 1 turn, and cannot be dispelled.

Usable By:

Thief

Monk

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Agility, but I'm not 100% about this solution. We've decided to make it usable only by monks and thieves to avoid heavy armored characters using it. Potion's price is 350gp.

 

Potion of Toughness

Effects:

Drinker's hit points are raised by 20% for 5 turns

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Fortitude. Price is 250gp.

 

Potion of Vocalize

Effects:

Drinker is immune to silence for 1 turn

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Genius. It works as a Vocalize spell. Very useful for clerics, druids, paladins and rangers, as they previously had no way to counter a silence effect. Price is 250gp.

 

Potion of Restoration

Effects:

Lesser Restoration

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Mind Focusing. It works as a Lesser Restoration spell. Price is 300gp.

 

Potion of Memory

Effects:

The drinker brings back into memory two spells of 4th-level or lower that have been previously cast

Usable By:

All

 

Notes: Replaces Potion of Insight. It works more or less like Word of Recall, but it can restore two spells no higher than 4th lvl (instead of 5th). I think its price should be considerable to prevent rich spellcasters from getting an almost infinite amount of mid-low lvl spells. It currently is 500gp.

Haste

... the +1 THACO / +1 AC comes from DnD 3.5, and doesn't really belong here... the spell is powerful enough without that bonus.

Those bonuses aren't there because I'm a 3.5 fan, they are there because I do think Haste should be specular to Slow. If Slow lowers target's speed, apr, AC, to hit chances, and so on, then Haste should do the opposite (in fact, each of these spell is supposed to cancel the other).

 

Improved Haste

Granting additional APR & speed is more than enough power for that spell, I really don't understand the reasoning for boosting these spells even more by granting THACO and AC, beside having the spell look more "D&D 3.5-like", which is not what your mod is trying to achieve (?)

 

These spells were already "bread & butter" of Baldur's Gate I & II before even boosting them. It's like granting bonus to other very powerful spells, like PFMW or Time Stop, or Improved Alacrity & so on..

Who told about boosting IH? If anything my suggested changes are a slight nerf (increasing its "minimum effectiveness" but drastically lowering its maximum potential).

 

-1 Spell Casting Time

I'm really against this for both conceptual and balance reasons. Actually I'll surely check that rumor about haste/slow opcodes affecting casting speed because that would be hugely unwelcome!

 

Another thing that you could do would be to rename the spell into "Alacrity" rather than Improved Haste, and have it grant the same bonus as Improved Alacrity, but for the duration of 1 round, which would make it balanced, I guess ?

This would turn an already very powerful spell into an absolute monster (with your suggested casting speed bonus it would be even worse!). This is madness!! No, this is Spartaaaa!

Haste & Improved Haste

Polytope's point is indeed valid (IH has much more potential if cast on multiple fighters), but I actually think even a single IH on a dual-wielder fighter can be hugely more effective than Haste on multiple fighters. First of all, you're going to cast IH on your best fighter, and granting 2x apr to the warrior wielding your best weapon/equipment/stats is exponentially more effective than +1apr to multiple characters imo (e.g. if such "champion" had 4 apr you would need at least 4 fighters of identical power level to reach the same effectiveness with a normal Haste, and you'd be using four chars to achieve what you could have done with only one, leaving the other three to different duties!).

 

On top of that, IH lasts twice as much as Haste and doesn't cause fatigue! Long story short, if used on a dual wielder the current Improved Haste pratically is Greater Whirlwind Attack on steroids imo (lasts 20 times more, improves AC/THAC0, boosts regeneration, allows super fast movements).

 

As you might have guessed I do think IH is kinda OP when cast on certain characters, but at the same time it's very lame when cast on non-warriors! It's ridiculous that casting a 6th lvl IH on an rogue/priest gives you +1 apr to a single character when the 3rd lvl Haste would have given you +1 apr to the whole party!

 

So, what I already planned to suggest is to make Improved Haste grant +2 apr instead of 2x, evening its effectiveness on all characters (and all weapon styles, as it would also be a more fair solution to balance 2handers and dual wielders).

 

Summarizing what I wanted to suggest, 3rd lvl Haste:

* +1 apr, AC, THAC0, and speed factor (the latter would be a new entry)

* if possible something like +50% movement rate instead of th current +100%

* last 10 rounds

* whole party, but 5 rounds fatigue after it (note that SR's fatigue also affect spellcaster's casting speed factor)

 

6th lvl Improved Haste:

* +2 apr (finally affecting non-warriors), AC, THAC0, and speed factor

* +100% movement rate

* last up to 20 rounds

* single target, but no fatigue after it

Slow & Haste

Also, using any opcode besides 16 for haste won't correctly set STATE_HASTED for AI purposes, same problem I run into when trying to change the overpowered blindness effect.

Yeah, I do feared that not using the original opcode could be a problem, but at the same time it would be the best way to do a "clean job".

 

Regarding the repeating EFFs issue, as far as I remember even if Blade Barrier works through multiple 146 sub-spells you still get 2x rate. I'll try to find some time to test it.

 

Slow is actually a considerable debuff for characters with only 1 apr, because they're probably spellcasters and it doubles the casting time of any spell.

I have tested slow a lot while modding and I assure you it is worst for caster than fighters. Slow movement speed + double casting time make a spellcaster very fragile.

Ehh? Are you guys sure? I was almost sure neither haste nor slow opcodes had any effect on spellcasting (only the casting glow animation was affected). Sounds like I have to test it again, especially considering both spells have this line "Spellcasting and spell effects are not affected" in their description!

 

Insect Plague

It seems like most of you agree the spell itself is quite devastating when it is not interrupted. My point is that such weakness is necessary because else this very powerful omni-purpose spell (it can cause fear, it weakens opponent's AC/thac0, it can completely disable spellcasters and it damages everyone in a huge friendly AoE!) would also be fast to cast and thus really too good! I know priests cannot protect themselves as good as mages, but making their spells too fast to counter that isn't the right solution imo. See below.

 

Druid have almost nothing to protect them from spells, so they can easily be interrupted by spells.

 

See a druid cast insect plague? you have a full round to interrupt him!

It's less easy when you fight a full group, but when it is a lone caster, it's rather easy.

As Dakk says this is a known "issue", but even looking into each and every PnP book I found very few ways to improve their anti-magic defense.

 

To prevent this, I made it an avenger and improved invisibility is a life saver (as for many spellcasters too)

Yeah, but Improved Invisibility really doesn't suit druids, and we cannot turn avery druid in the game into an Avenger.

 

I should see what TobEx can do about this. I've installed new spellcasting interrupt system (and no interrupt on 0 damage) but didn't test it yet.

Can you please report your tests to us? You really don't know how much hope I have in that tweak! If it works as intended it should finally allow priests to perform their role even wthout PfMW-like buffs thanks to their heavy armors and hp.

Haste & Slow

From my humble gamer experience, I do think that this spell remain overpowered. ...

Well, this is a long story...but in short, I agree with a lot of your points. The doubled movement rate can be abused to exploit the poor AI, and being able to cast it on the entire party plus summons makes it extremely powerful for a 3rd lvl slot (the spell effectiveness is hugely dependent on how many allies can beneft from it).

 

I think there's also a particularly huge issue that needs to be mentioned: haste opcode causes all repeating effects to take place twice as fast, which can lead to some serious problems like Blade Barrier (or any aura-like effect) triggering twice as much per round. That can be almost game-breaking depending on which repeating EFFs are affected imo. The other side effect of this is the one you mentioned about regenerating and poison effects. The latter almost never affected my games, but the former can be actually quite OP if applied on chars with very high regeneration rate (e.g. even 7th lvl Regeneration spell becomes a monster if coupled with haste).

　

Now, long story short I'll just list what I was going to suggest and why:

- first of all, I thought about getting rid of the hardcoded haste/slow opcodes. I hope this doesn't clash with Detecable Spell system because it's pretty much mandatory for everything else

- with a custom sec type we could finally make Haste and Slow properly counter each other

- Haste should grant a lower movement rate bonus compared to improved haste imo (e.g. if Improve Haste remains +100% then Haste could grant +50%).

- if possible I'd like Haste and Slow spells to affect recipient's attack speed factor

- Slow should affect non-warriors characters too (chars with 1 apr are unaffected by the current Slow spell)

- Haste and Slow spells should not affect repeating EFFs, regeneration rate and poison hp loss rate

 

Insect Plague level 5 :

About insect plague : I don't know about others players but I don't like the one round casting duration. I have not memorized this spell at all in my game. The vanilla casting time (5) was fine Imo.

I'm not sure about this, mainly for two reasons:

- this is a summoning spell, and all summons currently takes a full round to be cast

- this spell is really devastating imo, and having a very long casting speed is there to partially balance it

 

Speaking of this spell, leaving aside its casting time, I'd like to have some feedback on these spells (insect spells in general) after the huge revision we applied to them.

 

Also note that I do intend to suggest making this spell ignore magic resitance (again, this is a summoning spell), and such change would further increase its potential (quite a lot actually!).

 

Chaos level 5:

Again, from my gamer experience, I think the vanilla duration was fine. (5 rounds + 1every 6level). I actually play with the vanilla duration and enemy have ofen the time to recover from chaos effects. It's really fun when you must finish a mage before chaos takes end. Why only me complain about a 10 round duration?

I think I already answered to a similar request quite a few times. Yes, I'm fine reducing its duration, but my try dream would be to make this spell a little more different as I hate it to be a copy of Confusion. That being said, the lower duration tweak can also be applied to Confusion.

 

Lower Resistance:

Maybe I am wrong but in vanilla, I remember that a string in the box indicated the amount of magic resistance lowered. Same for Pierce magic.

To implement them I should add new strings, because the old ones don't cover all the % values.

I've just sent to cmorgan V3.1 but don't hold your breath for V4, with my times it won't be out so quickly!

I had promised myself to wait until SR v4 before starting a fresh game, but I've failed my saving throw. Time to start a fresh game! Though since you just sent in 3.1, I suppose I can spend a few more days picking mods to install. How long does it usually take to be downloadable from the main page?

I don't know how long does it take...for example now it's taking more than expected because gmail hates me (delivery failure) and cmorgan is too busy with real life. I've just sent the mod to Berelinde too, but I may upload it myself to a temporary host (as I did for IR V3 beta) if necessary.

 

I also just wanted to thank you for all your work modding this game... You and the other modders taken a beautiful gem and managed to polish it into being even more amazing. I think back on my giddy delight when I beta'd Baldur's Gate back in mid 1998 (I still have the discs that Ray Muzyka burned off for me!) and now I don't think I'd ever devolve back to playing it unmodded for anything.

You're welcome. It's indeed amazing how great this game can still be after so much time!

It seems I will have to wait for SR v4 to really start playing this game...

Yes, so do I. And I'll need to check again all my spellbooks to see what should be changed with SR 4.0 !

Hopefully, this will be the final version eheh

I've just sent to cmorgan V3.1 but don't hold your breath for V4, with my times it won't be out so quickly! Regarding it being the "final" release, yes it will. Speaking of final releases, IR V3 (hopefully out within a bunch of days) almost surely is a final version too. After that I think small updates may take place (e.g. few changes, new languages. etc) but nothing major. I'll devote myself only to Kit Revisions.

My bad, didn't see there was hotfixes patch

 

Well, I am concerned by 2 spells : Spell shield (level 5) and spell shield (level 8)

2 differents spells with the same name.

 

Since the level 8 spell is an improved globe of invulnerability, I would have called it "Major Globe of Invulnerability"

The 5th lvl one was disabled back then because it was bugged. I suggested a solution to finally fix it a year ago, and Ardanis coded it right away, but until SR V4 only the most recent SCS version has implemented such tweak.

 

The 8th lvl one will indeed be renamed into Greater Globe of Invulnerability for SR V4. The original 5th lvl Spell Shield will be restored instead.

Happy new year

Happy new year.

 

Well, back to business. I have tested Spell thrust and Secret Word

Very small radius makes it difficult to use them efficiently

5" radius, it's melee range. So, beeing area of effect is almost useless since there is almost no chance that many casters are that closed.

And melee range is tough, and if target move a bit during cast, it will just be wasted.

 

I would have prefer a single range target spell compared to these ones.

Or a bigger radius like 10"

Sounds like you aren't using the hotfixes, because those spells already works more or like as you wish. Secret Word is single target. Spell Thrust has a larger 15 feet radius AoE.

 

Btw, the old 5 feet radius AoE wasn't there to give those spells a real AoE, but only to make them bypass Improved Invisibility.

Summon Shadows

Tanks are good vs AI. Players will just ignore them.

All my tests are done within my mod, so it is enemy that use spells on me. I prefer dangerous summon that I must disable quickly than harmless tanks that I can avoid freely.

Currently, a level 9 necromancer casting 2 summon shadow (so 6 shadows) is something player can almost ignore. Ogres don't have better thac0 but they hit like a truck with their 19 strength.

Ah ok, point taken then. Against players it's probably better a "glass cannon" type of summon. The only threat they pose is their STR drain, but I guess only wraith's level drain is considered a real issue, especially considering the save vs chilling touch is quite easy to make for players (then again, I purposedly made those saves quite easy because I feared more the abuse of STR/lvl drain vs AI poor saves). If we do agree about improving shadows than I think their chilling touch is pretty much the only aspect that can be buffed.

 

Vampiric Touch

Larloch doesn't allow any save either and is still faster and range spell.

As I said, I'm all for making VT grow bigger faster. After that, the other difference could be that LMD's increased max hp should be less and quicker to fade. Multiple hp increase (note: max hp, not normal heal) shouldn't stack, thus the necromancer would surely look forward to increase his max hp by 30 (which for a mage means almost doubling his base hp) for a long time instead of by 10 for a short time, wouldn't he?

 

Again, for a necromancer, what's the point to choose vampric touch over skull trap ? Skull trap does more damage and is area of effect

Well, leaving aside Skull Trap has always been a little too much effective, these two spells should serve a completely different role. VT should be memorized only once imo, and used as a mean to heal himself (almost a full heal effect for a mage) or buff his hp while also damaging the target. Damaging the target is only a part of VT (not even the most important imo), while it's Skull Trap's only purpose.

 

Btw, Skull Trap will probably be even more useful within V4 for AI controlled necromancers using undead summons, as I'm planning to make it count as negative energy damage (as per PnP) thus not affecting undead, and turning it into a sort of "party-friendly" AoE when used this way.

I'll only add small feedbacks from time to time

Youre welcome.

 

Summon shadow. I tested it at level 9 and I was disapointed. 3 shadows on a level 5 party doing nothing at all but waiting to be killed.

On a fighter with 3 AC, those 3 shadows took about 5mn to kill him, maybe I got unlucky ?

 

Compared to monster summoning 3 or spider spawn, summon shadow seems very weak to me.

Too bad, it is the only level 5 necromancer spell. I think I would prefer only one summon but stronger. In that regard, I really like summon death knight at level 7

Mmm, shadows/wraiths seemed pretty solid back then. They should peform well as "tanks" because of 50% dmg reduction and huge amount of resistances/immunities (they are both undead and incorporeal). I may have overstimated them a little, but do they really look bad compared to MSIII's ogres or ASII's leopards? Mmm...

 

As others, I agree that gnolls are useless. On this level, spider spawns are a lot better, it is not even comparable.

Ok, point taken. Gnolls are not worth a 4th lvl spell. Iìll take this in mind for V4.

 

Dimension door, can't see why I would memorize it, basically useless and at this level, there are a lot of very interesting spells.

To be honest, even as a level 1 spell, wouldn't change my mind

Well, being able to completely avoid a Horrid Wilting by quickly DD away with a 1st or 2nd lvl spell woulnd' be bad at all imo, would it?

 

Color spray : one of my new favorite level 1 spell, very powerful, but need to be in close range and often miss target

There's very little of me in this, as it's mostly as its old AD&D version was, before getting nerfed to the point of being uselss.

 

True strike : I'm trying to make a good use of this one, scripting mages to cast it and attack after, but it is very difficult to use since it expires very quickly. Good combo with melf meteor through.

You're not the first to say that this spell has limited potential outside few great combos (e.g. Harm + TS for a cleric/mage). It's already better than in PnP, but probably not enough...I'll think about it.

 

Larloch : previously useless, now it's good. 10 life drain is nice and my necromancers abuse it now. But now, Vampiric touch seems bad at low levels.

On a level 9 necromancer, it's about 8 for larcoch, and 12 for vampiric. Considering larloch is level 1 and cast very quickly and at range, I don't see the point to use vampiric touch below its maximal potential.

Good point. We could probably make VT's dmg/drain effect increase at a faster rate (2hp/lvl) and cap at a lower lvl (e.g. 15th). I have to keep VT's early/mid game dmg potential under control though, because it may be a close range spell but it doesn't allow any save and uses the most effective source of dmg (magic).

 

More tomorrow

Well, tomorrow morning I'll go in Toscana for a couple of days, but I look forward to more feedback as soon as I get back!

While reading a most amusing LP (http://www.shsforums...shtars-journal/), I saw this:

I believe SR is installed, mainly because the worthless Know Alignment is replaced by the awesome Know Opponent, and if it is - should it not be "Divine" in both instances ("header" and title)?

You can easily notice the long description doesn't belong to SR though, because I don't use that format. If SR is installed a mod probably ovewrote SR's spell, or SR's description.

Friend level 1 : I suggest to forbidd stacking (too cheap way for discount and it doesn't make cense to reach 25 value with a level one spell).

It's not supposed to be stackable. I already told Demi about it and he will fix it.

Yep sorry, I thought I already fixed that! I'll do it right away to avoid forgetting it again.

 

I also really do think that spell deflection/turning should absorb spell like chaos, Grander malediction, greater command, despair, silence, horror....

 

Theses sort of spell cannot be considered like area spell but more like "multiple centered directly upon wizard spells" and should obvisouly be absorbed.

 

What do you think about it ?

There was a plan for V4 to "merge" Spell Deflection and Spell Turning (they never works anyway within this game because of how the AI detects/reacts to it and the whole spell removing system which doesn't exist in PnP), turning them into a NWN-like spell protections which works vs AOE effects too. It is supposed to be an optional component, and I think Ardanis already coded and tested it, I just cannot find the whole discussion behind it anymore (SR's forum has a become huge and some topics are really massive ).

Energy Blades

Are the +10 bonus to the base unarmed THAC0, and no proficiencies apply?

Yes and yes.

 

Black Blade of Disaster

So the caster/wielder have THAC0 set to 0, with an additional +5 to hit (as quoted in bold) bonus on top (for a THAC0 of -5)?

Exactly.

 

Do other boni apply, like STR and from items that grant bonus (gauntlets, bracers etc)?

All bonuses apply, and as mentioned by the description the wielder can benefit from having long sword spec or mastery. As of now the only bonus that doesn't apply is STR because BBoD is considered a blade made of pure energy.

Deafness

Damn, we checked only vanilla and SCS AI...I hate you! May I ask why you're using such a terrible spell? Is it a must have?

I thought it was pretty good for disabling low-level spellcasters. As you may know, some of RR's Shadow Thieves carry level 1-2 spell scrolls and Deafness seemed like a nice fit.

Well, as good as it can seem to you, even 1st lvl spells outshine Deafness vs spellcasters and can at the same time be used against non-spellcasters. For example Charm Person (instead of 50% spell failure you get an allied mage), Spook (it has a huge -4 penalty on its save and a fleeting spellcaster is better than one who can still cast spells 50% of times) and Blindness too in theory but against players it doesn't work as it should.

 

Another thing to note, if you want any of SR's new spells to be used by SCS/RR/aTweaks' AI, the chances for that are much better if you make them party friendly.

I know, in fact the latest SCS is using quite a lot more spells than it previously did also thanks to this (e.g. Silence, Glyph of Warding, Symbols, etc.) and that's also why I planned Snilloc's Snowball Swarm to be party-friendly (as I do wish the AI to start using much more non-fire based spells). Anyway, if both this spell and SSS have to be party-friendly I'll have to make them "different" in another way, like making the former much less damaging than planned.

 

Btw, which name are we going to use?

Since RR already adds Sound Burst as a bard HLA, Sonic Blast sounds better to me.

Hey that's not fair! I trouble myself about using a 1st lvl spell name for a 2nd lvl one and you instead use a very well known 2nd lvl spell name for an HLA?!? Sigh, I guess I have to live with the lesser famous name.

 

Fireball

What do you think of reducing its AoE from 30 to 20 feet as per PnP? Would that be an advantage (more controllable in case the caster is struggling to not hit his allies) or not (in case there's no vulnerable ally to worry about)?

Great, that would reduce the sequencer "exploit" a bit.

Sequencer exploit?

 

The spell was much better in combination with unnerfed ProtfFire.

Unnerfed ProFire?

 

Flame Arrow

Remember the starting scene after Chateaux Irenicus.

Irenicus doesn't use Flame Arrow anymore when SR is installed.

 

Protection from Missiles

I thought there was a much more wide consensus about it being OP, whereas it seems quite a few of us (me, Shaitan, Salk, Incantatar) don't consider it such. Anyway, the solution of making it grant a huge AC bonus means the spell will more or less work the same way (just less consistently).

 

If we implement this solution I wouldn't make it protect from Melf's Acid Arrow and Flame Arrow because such immunities would be "out of the blue" for a AC enhancing spell, though Shield spell pretty much has a similar "out of the blue" immunity vs Magic Missile.

 

P.S Am I the only one who finds starnge this spell is one of the few imposing a huge animation overlay over the protected creature despite its surely not-impressive power?

 

Skull Trap

For many reasons I really cannot make it work as per PnP.

 

Perhaps casting time should be increased to 1 turn, as with Symbols? This is a trap, after all, ought to take some time to place.

Oh, I forgot to suggest that myself! I think it's a must (Fire Trap and Glyph has 1 round casting time too), and it would also make Fireball much more appealing with its faster casting time.

Deafness

This spell will be completely reshaped. It will get a small non-friendly AoE (the AI NEVER uses it anyway)

RR's AI does use Deafness actually.

 

Therefore I'd prefer it is stays either party friendly or single-target, whichever is more convenient for you.

Damn, we checked only vanilla and SCS AI...I hate you! May I ask why you're using such a terrible spell? Is it a must have? In theory I've no problem helping you out making it party friendly, it's just that Snowball Swarm was going to be party friendly too, and the latter has an animation which indeed looks as party friendly (I cannot extract IWD one, else I would gladly make it unfriendly), while the former looks unfriendly instead. We could live with both spells being friendly, but that would make the two spells slightly overlapping each other in terms of "usability".

 

Btw, which name are we going to use? I'm slightly in favour of Sound Burst right now, because of the two common PHB spells (the other one is Shout) it's the closest one in terms of lvl (the same, instead of Shout's 4th lvl) and concept (burst radius, not necessarily centered on the caster instead of cone shaped starting from caster). After all the only difference between PnP and our version is that we replace 1 round stun with deafness, which may actually fits a sound-based effect more than stun. The only other candidates probably are Spell Compendium's Sonic Blast and to a lesser extent PHB's Shatter.

 

Flame Arrow

Am I the only one who think this spell starts really too much weak (at 5th lvl it only does 4d6 fire dmg to 1 target) and ends up slightly too powerful (a 3rd lvl spell inflicting 20d6 dmg?)? What about having the caster get more arrows sooner (e.g. 1 arrow every other 2 lvls above 1st, or 1 arrow every 3 lvls?) and then cap a little bit earlier (9-12th lvl)?

You could increase the missile fraction of damage (to distinguish from fireball), but for a creature hit by multiple flame arrows in a round allow a second saving throw for the fire portion. This would make FA a bit stronger against groups of creatures, but not overpowered against a single creature.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by adding another save...

 

After discussing it with Ardanis I'm going to suggest this:

a) caster get 1 arrow every two lvls, up to 5 arrows

b) each arrow deals 4d6 fire dmg as per V2

c) on a successful save the target will avoid the entire dmg instead of halving it

 

Protection from Missiles

Quite a few players reported this spell to be really too much powerful, especially within BG1. Should I nerf it by making it grant immunity only against non-magical missiles as per vanilla, but granting a huge AC bonus vs missiles?

The 2nd ed version is actually mentioned as reducing missile damage by 1 pt per die (about 15%) even against magical missiles, which could be added.

Yeah I know, but physical resistance isn't going to be much useful for spellcasters (unless ToBEx concentration check will ever work). I'm really uncertain...but if I really have to remove the immunity I'd prefer AC over resistance.

I've updated the first post with what I believe is pretty much established for 1st and 2nd lvl spells. Now, 3rd lvl spells...

 

Dire Charm

As previously mentioned, I'd like to make it work as per PnP, making the target go berserk, but I have to find out if this could mess with the AI.

 

Fireball

What do you think of reducing its AoE from 30 to 20 feet as per PnP? Would that be an advantage (more controllable in case the caster is struggling to not hit his allies) or not (in case there's no vulnerable ally to worry about)?

 

Flame Arrow

Am I the only one who think this spell starts really too much weak (at 5th lvl it only does 4d6 fire dmg to 1 target) and ends up slightly too powerful (a 3rd lvl spell inflicting 20d6 dmg?)? What about having the caster get more arrows sooner (e.g. 1 arrow every other 2 lvls above 1st, or 1 arrow every 3 lvls?) and then cap a little bit earlier (9-12th lvl)?

 

Ghost Armor

I'd personally rename it Phantom Armor (its PnP name) but it's not a big deal. Is this spell appealing? Does it need a small boost?

 

Haste & Slow

Using custom secondary types we'll finally be able to make these two spells cancel each other correctly. I'm also thinking about a possible solution to make Slow really halve apr to all those classes with only 1 attack (aka all non-warriors), as the opcode itself doesn't reduce their apr to 1/2.

 

Invisibility Sphere

Following players suggestions I'd make this a short lasting (max 1 turn) but quick casting (speed 1) spell.

 

Lightning Bolt

Assuming I cannot make it work as per PnP, this spell has to be THE "1 target damaging spell" of choice on this lvl. Is the current dmg output and its progression fine? Does Flame Arrow still outshine it? Any other suggestion?

 

Non-detection

Non-Detection currently doesn't grant complete protection from Detect Illusion, Oracle and True Seeing, it does only in case the protected creature is invisible via thief hide in shadow ability, but not via invisibility spells. Using a custom secondary type we should be able to make it work more similarly to PnP (e.g. it will also protect other illusionary protections such as Blur or Mirror Image). When affected by DI/Oracle/True Seeing the protected creature will be allowed to make a save, a successfull save means the divination fails, while a failed save means Non-detection is breached and DI/Oracle/True Seeing are able to detect the protected creature.

 

Protection from Missiles

Quite a few players reported this spell to be really too much powerful, especially within BG1. Should I nerf it by making it grant immunity only against non-magical missiles as per vanilla, but granting a huge AC bonus vs missiles?

 

It has also been suggested to make it scale with caster lvl, but doing that is kinda problematic (I have to create/add a bunch of pro files and patch all ammos and throwing weapons), especially if I also have to take into account mod-added items.

 

Skull Trap

Leaving aside that I'd really love it to work as per PnP (the skull is placed upon a conjured skeleton, and explodes when hit) but I can't do that, I'm simply thinking of making it not affect undead creatures (as per PnP) as it inflicts negative energy damage.

Deafness

Now, it's my turn. Something a little more radical which would hugely improve Deafness without removing its core concept would be to "replace" it with a 2nd lvl implementation of another PnP spell, Sonic Blast. We also thought about the much more common Sound Burst, but it's bard-only in PnP, and it stuns instead of deafening. Similarly another Spell Compedium's spell was Thunderclap, a 3rd lvl spell which both stuns and deafen.

Great idea, but I would prefer Shout. Has a much more classic PnP feel to me.

Shout is indeed a real classic!

Indeed, the end result I was suggesting was clearly inspired by Shout, and we actually found those other spells (Sonic Blast, Thunderclap) by looking for similar spells with a lower lvl. That being said, if most of you prefer to use that name despite the two lvl difference (Shout is a 4th lvl spell) it could be fine with me, but while PnP Shout is a cone spell, I only have thr animation for a Sound Burst-like circular AoE spell.

 

Chaotic Commands vs Mind Blank

Basing on it's description... Chaotic Command protects only against compulsive spells. Things which say to you what to do. Command: Die, Hold Person, Charm Person, Dominate. It doesn't protect you from randomization spells like Chaos or Feeblemind.

 

On the other hand Mind Blank creates shield which makes your thoughts unavailable to anyone - so it grants full protection against mind-affecting spells.

Keep in mind CC has to remain pretty much unchanged to not mess up the AI (aka immunity to confusion and feeblemind will stay). Otoh, Mind Blank can offer even more protections, such as granting immunity to ALL enchantments including things such as Doom, Bad Chant, Malison, Crushing Despair, and so on.

 

New Divination spell

About high-level Divination spell which makes you "prepared for everything" - what about something like: first time when you'll encounter opponent (hostile creature) you get free round of time stop? That makes you really prepared for everything. That'd also justify the fact that SCS mages have their defences up (and even this funny tick when they do so). I'd say level 6 or 7 would be fine for effect like this.

Ehm...this is really too much non-pnp imo.

Blindness

Is it possible/would you consider only affecting visual range for the player? This way AI can deal much better, pretty much as the player would.

Mmm, leaving aside hardcoded issues (I think this cannot be done) the end result would be pretty much strange, as you'd have a blinded character simply suffer -10 thac0 and still able to do pretty much everything else normally, like casting a spell at a target 30 feet away from him.

 

Deafness

The idea of Deafness penetrating Improved Invisibility is interesting. You could also make it into Blindness/Deafness and have it inflict blind and deaf penalties with a -1 saving throw over the level 1 spell Blindness.

Combining the two of them would create a very powerful 2nd lvl spell, which would make 1st lvl Blindness completely redundant...you know I don't like that sort of things.

 

Might be interesting to add some beneficial effects, and turn it into a utility spell. I'm thinking immunity to Command, Bard Song, Chant, greater command, Power word spells etc, Siren's charm. Things you really need to hear for them to affect you.

Yeah, I do thought about this, and I may actually work on it if we assign a custom sec type to Deafness, but that isn't going to make this spell more appealing anyway because it's not like you'd want your caster to deafen himself (not to mention there's a save to avoid it). You could actually want your fighters to be deafened, but it's not something I would provide incentives to.

 

Also vocalize should cancel the spell failure part.

Not sure about this...

 

But I don't get why it should penetrate II: what's the logic?

Because without an AoE this spell is completely useless (just compare it to Silence or its lower lvl cousin Blindness), and assigning it an AoE makes it bypass II.

 

Failing that, how about swapping these two around?

As it stands now I'd probably not use Deafness even as a 1st lvl spell, would you?

 

Now, it's my turn. Something a little more radical which would hugely improve Deafness without removing its core concept would be to "replace" it with a 2nd lvl implementation of another PnP spell, Sonic Blast. We also thought about the much more common Sound Burst, but it's bard-only in PnP, and it stuns instead of deafening. Similarly another Spell Compedium's spell was Thunderclap, a 3rd lvl spell which both stuns and deafen.

 

Long story short, the daring suggestion is to turn Deafness into an Evocation spell, Sonic Blast, with a small 10-15 feet radius AoE, making it inflict a small amount of damage (4d4?) and forcing targets a save to avoid being deafened. What do you think?

 

Spell schools

Blindness: Necromancy > Illusion

Mage Armour: Conj. > Abjuration

Luck: Ench > Abjuration/Divination

Ray of Enf.: Ench > Necromancy

Stinking Cloud and Web should indeed be conjuration

Blindness: what would be the benefit of making it an illusion? The only thing it would accomplish imo is making the whole "Cure Disease removes blindness" thing quite absurd, as an healing spell would dispel an illusion.

 

Mage Armor: this has always been a trademark of conjurers and I think it should stay. Otoh, I could probably vote to make Shield an abjuration spell as per 3E.

 

Luck: I really don't know which school would fit it best, but I wouldn't change a pre-existing school unless I have a very good reason to do so.

 

Ray of Enfeeblement: good point, necromancy does fit a STR draining spell much more than enchantment school (another point for 3E).

 

Stinking Cloud & Web: yeah, I really cannot understand how the hell these could be considered evocations back then.

Hi all,

this is my first post here, normally I'am more the reader in the background.

You're welcome!

 

Chill Touch

Bypassing PfMW-like protection via cold damage sounds good and could help to interrupt spellcasters, so there is at least a use for multiclass mages and bards (and even single class mages). If you find a way to implement this without removing the "+1 enchantment to determine what it can hit" part, its cool.

No, that's not possible. Afaik the only two ways to implement this are:

a) flag Chill Touch as magical while keeping vanilla's +0 enchantment

b) flag Chill Touch as magical while assigning it high enchantment lvl (e.g. +7)

 

a) Is not an option imo unless we want this spell to not work against tons of cretures including pretty much all undead ones.

b) That would mean making it affect ALL creatures. This seems the lesser of the two evils.

 

P.S Both solutions also require to tweak PfMW to make it work as Mantle spells does (aka "immunity to enchantment lvl" instead of "immunity to every weapon with the 'magical' flag")

 

 

2nd lvl arcane spells

I'll add more stuff to the discussion as only a bunch of 1st lvl spells is not enough for me!

 

Deafness

This is the worst 2nd lvl spell imo (Detect Alignment cannot even be called a spell imo), and I cannot tolerate that it's lower lvl cousin, Blindness, is ridiculously more powerful than this. Any suggestion? Adding small AoE (at least it would bypass II)?

 

There's a rare PW:Deafness in PnP, but we already have a PW at this lvl, and I don't think casting time 1 would suddenly make it uber-great.

 

Detect Invisibility

This spell won't dispell Improved Invisibility effects anymore (making II's +4 AC much more reliable and effective), but it will reveal invisibile creatures (those under II too) and it will allow to target them normally (aka the reason we don't need spell removals to have that ugly AoE to bypass II). It will also revela creatures using the new Etherealness spell.

 

Knock

It will be renamed Battering Ram, and its school changed from Transmutation to Invocation.

 

Ghoul Touch

Again, touch spells are my worst nightmare...but this time around I think this one is really understimated. It pratically is a Celestial Fury on stereoids if it wasn't for its low enchantment lvl.

 

Ray of Enfeeblement

Is it fine as it is?

 

Stinking Cloud & Web

Am I the only one who think their AD&D school assignment makes no sense? They should be conjurations as per 3E imo.

 

For balance reasons I'd make multiple Web effects not stack, but I know there isn't a consensus on this.