Kalindor

Barkskin

Needs no buff unless duration is shortened.

Find Traps

Never liked this spell as it performs one fundamental role of the thief. (Disarming is another matter, haha.)

Fire Trap

I've thought about reducing casting time to 5 (then doing the same buff for Glyph oWarding - and a similar nerf for Skull Trap' date=' from 3 to 5), but I fear it would make this cheap spell too effective. Mmm...[/quote']

I use this spell extensively already. I don't think Skull Trap needs a nerf unless FireBall also gets one. As I mentioned before, if it becomes possible to improve the concentration check of druids with an HLA or something, I vote to leave their spells very effective but with a long casting time for flavor.

 

Flame Blade

This has the same issues at remaining competitive that I mentioned previously. The only solutions I can see are the aforementioned.

 

Goodberry

Yes for level 1. If it is left at level 2, it should be almost a Cure Light Wounds when eaten.

 

Know Opponent

Like it.

 

Resist Fire and Cold

25% is probably too little to make me want to use it, even if it affects electricity. That would change if it lasted 8 hours, though. (Can't remember what current duration is.)

 

Spiritual Hammer

Nice +thac0 and range. If it had +attacks/round, it would be MMM.

Mind Blank

I am fine with this.

Monster Summoning VIII

Umber Hulks and salamanders are both cool. Speaking of cool and underrepresented, we still have wyverns somewhere, right?

Conjure Elder Elemental

I think we have enough elemental conjuring spells.

Create Greater Undead

Mummies are cool.

Lightning Ring

Sounds like Thunderstorm from Diablo II. I think this is a neat spell but the damage would have to be much larger than 5D6 due to random targeting and competing with party-friendly and magic-damage-dealing Horrid Wilting. Not sure that lightning immunity is necessary.

Polar Ray

I think Polar Ray is cooler than yet-another-Bigby-spell. Assuming we have a unique animation, of course. I don't think this spell needs an attack roll or anything considering other magically-directed projectiles generally lack them in BG.

Mass Polymorph

This sounds amusing. I'd use it for the humor value if nothing else. It should clearly be called "Audience of Rabbits."

Polymorph Any Object

I hate this spell. At least make it level 9 if you are going to make the attempt.

Symbol of Insanity

I don't think this is unique enough to warrant another spell. I would use Mass Polymorph instead in any case because it's cooler.

Solipsism

Cool idea, but we should really have a distinguishing gameplay difference between all of the proposed AoE save-or-be-disabled spells of this level.

Executioner's Eyes

I like that it's divination, so I vote that it be included. Not sure what the concept is supposed to be, though. "I see like an executioner!" So what?

+20% critical hit chance combined with the proposed removal of critical hit immunity on helmets would be really useful and worth an 8th level slot.

Cause Wounds

I vote no to the idea of combo cause/cure wounds.

Animal Growth

Extra hit dice sounds fine. I still think there is room for an offensively oriented Magic Fang spell if you were willing to take liberties with its implementation. A few summon-bolstering spells would definitely add a different dimension to the druid.

Longstrider

Are you Ardanis in disguise?

Not to my knowledge, although Mental Domination is not out of the question I suppose...

Maybe as a flavor effect add some sort of fatigue reduction?

I wrote a long response and it got deleted somehow, so here is a paraphrase:

Animal Summoning I

Make it summon a large group of rats at higher levels. This would at least be useful as a distraction.

Frost Fingers

This is a legitimate alternative to Sunschorch if it has a casting time of 1. It might need a small something extra since it can't kill trolls like Burning Hands can.

Longstrider

This would be very useful, especially with Armor Revisions.

​Camouflage

Don't think I would use this. Is there a way to make it allow allies to hide-in-plain-sight?

Animal Growth

If you aren't going to make the animals actually look larger, then this would feel mod-added in my opinion.

Magic Fang

This would be a good alternative to Animal Growth without the obvious lack of visual effects. However, +1/+1 is laughable: I would not even use it to fight wolves outside of Candlekeep. Consider that you could just take another summoning spell of the same level (whatever level it ends up bring) instead. I think it should at minimum give +3/+1 with an additional +1/+1 every 4-5 caster levels. Basically, summon + Magic Fang must be equal to or greater than summon + summon.

If you want to include Animal Growth as well as Magic Fang, Animal Growth could be more defensive, adding HP and some small damage bonus.

Cool to see most of SR players would actually like to remove non-druid spells from their spellbook despite their usefullness. I would have not dared to suggest removing so many of them. The only thing which may stops me is that they should still have a decent amount of spells per lvl, thus the first candidates to go are the least druid-like spells such as Bless and Doom, followed by AoF.

Personally, I don't think the druid's and cleric's spellbooks should overlap as much as they do. However, the only solution would be to add a bunch of new druid spells and remove the prayer- and blessing-like spells from them. While this would be ideal, it sounds like a ton of work.

Command

@Pacek, cretures rendered unconscious by Command spells do not wake up on hit, only those affected by Sleep. I know these are subtle details to catch, but it's these small things that makes the whole spell system so cool.

I use this spell a lot. It is essentially a ranged knockdown that can fubar mages/clerics casting spells with long casting times (who have no spell deflection). It allows you an option to interrupt ranged casters that have Stoneskin or boosted AC by hitting them on the saving-throw side of the equation.

Doom

I'm not in favor of increasing its casting time. Adding a save as per PnP/IWD was already unwelcomed by many players, making it even slow to cast is a sure way to get more hate mails/posts.

I'd leave it as-is. It surely has never won any battles for me.

Magical Stone

MMM should rightly be vastly superior, but there's probably too much gap:

* enchantment lvl: MMM has +2 instead of +1

* attack per round: MMM has 5 instead of 3

* accuracy: MMM has +5 bonus to attack rolls (not sure why, kinda random but I left it there), MMM only +1

* damage: MMM inflicts 1d4+2d4, stones just 1d4+1

* ammo: MMM goes up to 20, stones are just 10

 

What do you guys think it needs the most?

Damage for sure. This spell is a Magic Missile that requires attacks to discharge and a to-hit roll to deal any damage. Granted, you do get 10 of them.

Shillelagh

I don't know, +4 enchantment lvl for a weapon created with a 1st lvl spell seems really too much, but it may be just me. Mmm... Anyway, that +1 enchantment lvl isn't the real deal imo, as +3 is enough to hit 99,99% of SoA and ToB opponents.

I don't think the enchantment level is the problem. The fact is that you would never cast this spell after acquiring a weapon that is better (a problem that is common to magical weapon spells). In order for me to use this or any magical weapon spell, you would have to do one of the following:

1) Make it add its effects to the wielder's existing weapon.

2) Give it some sort of unique bonus/ability that is valuable and cannot be found on regular weapons.

3) Make it aid spellcasting in some way (conceptually odd).

4) Make it scale with level to compete with the power of contemporary weapon choices.

Energy Blades, MMM, and even Magical Stone fulfill condition 2 because they give a large attacks per round bonus that wizards cannot otherwise acquire. Therefore, I do find those useful.

Strength of Stone

@Pacek, it currently is 50%, but I now think something between 20-30% should be enough. Keep in mind mage's version of this spell can b cast on others, that feature alone generally is worth a +1 spell slot lvl.

Agree with casting on allies being worth +1 spell level. However, you would think it would be the priest's version that is ally-targetable.

I think a 25% movement penalty is sufficient.

Sunscorch

I think making its casting time faster has been asked quite a few times. If it was just a damaging spells I would have surely answered positively, but this spell actually is a Blindness spell (though with very short duration) which also causes a good amount of dmg, and double dmg against undead. Don't you think having instant casting time too would be really too much?

I have been annoyed with the druid's long casting times for their offensive spells. However, I have grown to think of it as a characteristic of the class and how they summon nature as opposed to discharging memorized spells. I think it adds flavor. BUT there should be some passive bonus or HLA in Kit Revisions that allows druids to have a boosted ToBEx concentration check to mitigate this "feature." It's not the time it takes to cast that annoys me, but the propensity for being interrupted.

Sanctuary

It seemed we agreed on improving it by reducing its casting time from standard (4 in vanilla, 5 within SR) to instant (1). Furthermore we also agreed to (*) make it not affected by divination spells.

 

What do you think?

Agreed.

If only there was a way to make the movement speed only take effect in combat situations but not when walking about the town. There is armor removal, but then you are screwed if you are attacked unexpectedly. (Realistic I suppose...)

Otoh even if I still believe movement rate penalty is cool, many players find it annoying and it's not extremely relevant balance wise, thus I agreed it may not be mandatory.

I personally like it, but my multiplayer friends do not. Thus, I am usually voted down when installing the armor revisions. I would enjoy it if it was not mandatory.

Shield Bash

Agree with Demivrgvs. This would seem "mod-added" without a bashing animation.

Critical Hits

I support removing critical immunity from helms and from monsters that should not have it. It would be a step towards making warrior classes more fearsome in relation to spellcasters. As it stands, I always target wizards first in an enemy party, but this could make me think twice about trying to incapacitate that barbarian first...

Speed Factor Penalties In Heavy Armor

This is a brilliant idea. I'm shocked that I never thought of it. It would definitely make lighter armors "feel" different in combat and make them and lessen the current "no-brainer" situation with plate mail on fighters. I may even consider installing this component with no movement penalty in heavy armor. Hmmm...

I would be all for having Breach only remove 2-4 protections but leaving the higher-level Pierce Shield (is that the one?) able to remove them all. I feel like Breach is a bit too necessary for all sorcerers to carry at the moment. (Since I usually play a sorcerer, I tend to think of balance in terms of deciding which spells to take as one. )

If True Seeing cannot detect illusions, will it be totally superseded by Prying Eye?

Prying Eye/Greater Prying Eye/Watchful Eye/Wizard Eye

Perhaps you could give it modest bonuses over Wizard Eye but make it untargetable by enemy units (hence a "prying eye" scout that can snoop about with impunity).

 

Energy Drain

Restoring spell levels may not immediately qualify as necromantic. However, since you are sucking out people's life force to do it, I would contend that you could be using that energy to grow tulips and it would still be quite heinous.

But mages would have to memorize them and rest to cast additional spells granted by new lvls. Following your logic a 14th lvl wizard casting ED via scroll should be able to then cast 9th lvl spells.

Sorry, I meant restoring spells ala Wondrous Recall.

Energy Drain

Restoring spell levels may not immediately qualify as necromantic. However, since you are sucking out people's life force to do it, I would contend that you could be using that energy to grow tulips and it would still be quite heinous.

Spell Trap

I really think this should at least shield against AoE even if it doesn't absorb spell energy from them. It is the 9th-level spell protection after all.

Imprisonment

I don't know if that is "all the balance it needs" as lawlight contends. I suggest a longer casting time (2 rounds?) or a saving throw (even w/ a huge penalty).

Black Blade of Disaster

The fact that it would be more powerful than the silver sword if we allow party member targeting is actually a bonus. If it wasn't an improvement over their weapons, why cast it at all? Alternately, you could make it add on-hit properties to any weapon instead of replacing their current weapon with a magical one. This would ensure that it is always useful and not out-moded by whatever equipment the party possesses.

Improving Ironskin is of course quite another matter. They need some love.

"Ironskins" sounds a lot more intimidating than "Stoneskin" anyhow.

Ball Lightning

That would be an interesting summoning spell. Would enemies be able to attack and destroy the ball? If not, we need to be absolutely sure it doesn't distract them ala Mordenkainen's Sword.

The idea was to make the ball have "protection from any creature" exactly because it shouldn't be considered a summon. I'm not sure if the ball should be dispellable, PnP isn't clear on this matter. If we decide to make it dispellable SCS would be able to counter it as it did with vanilla's ProUndead scroll I guess.

It does sound interesting. For consistency, I think it should be dispellable only if spells such as Cloudkill and Ice Storm are dispellable. It is basically the movable equivalent of an ice storm from what it sounds like.

That would be an interesting summoning spell. Would enemies be able to attack and destroy the ball? If not, we need to be absolutely sure it doesn't distract them ala Mordenkainen's Sword.

Mordenkainen's Force Missiles

Personally, I think this spell should deal less damage than elemental spells of the same level due to the difficulty of resisting its damage type. The last thing we need is another version of Magic Missile to make the offensive spells of yet another spell level somewhat questionable in comparison.

Swift Etherealness

Remind me: does Stoneskin have a longer casting time now to balance it out? If so, I would find a use for this spell if it was fast-casting. Duration must be short, as you said.

Absolute Immunity

I am fine with either solution. Perhaps make it un-breachable short-duration?

Bigby's Crushing Hand

Agree with your implementation.

Black Blade of Disaster

Cast on party members?

Chain Contingency

Not sure that anything needs to be done with this.

Energy Drain

I already use this sometimes. Agree that skill bonus is pretty useless to wizards, however. Perhaps make it use drained energy to restore spent spells?

Freedom

I use this extensively as a fallback since you buffed it. May think twice about taking it on a Sorcerer, however...

Gate

Alignment-specific creatures would be awesome if possible. Maybe merge with Planetar for good casters and make the Planetar spell into something else?

Imprisonment

Imprisonment is absurdly broken. However, adding a save makes it short-range PW:Kill (if you change that as suggested also) that bypasses MR. Different enough to be its own spell?

Meteor Swarm

Physical damage only makes sense. Definitely don't convert into 4 fireballs!

Power Word Kill

I always make this exact modification when I play through the game.

Shapechange

I never use this and thus cannot give any feedback.

Spell Trap

Can you make it attract and absorb spells cast at nearby allies? Other than that, the AoE protection would be nice. Also, a "Mass Spell Deflection" as a 9th or 10th-level spell (maybe just for abjurers?) would be appreciated as well...

Spellstrike

I vote to make it strip everything as suggested. In any case, the enemy casters also have access to it.

Time Stop

IMO, this spell is only overpowered when combined with Improved Alacrity and/or massive increased casting speed. I agree with removing auto-hit if that is a possibility.

Wail of the Banshee

I always use this on my Sorcerer since you've, ahem, improved it. I don't think it is overpowered as there are many things that are immune to it. It's not as useful in all situations like Meteor Swarm.

Wish

I only use this for insta-rest, personally. (It is very good for that, though.)

The idea of Deafness penetrating Improved Invisibility is interesting. You could also make it into Blindness/Deafness and have it inflict blind and deaf penalties with a -1 saving throw over the level 1 spell Blindness.

I think the touch spells should get better with level. They should definitely do much more damage than the corresponding fire-and-forget missile attack of the same level.

As your mage levels up, he has more desirable alternatives to entering melee combat, so these spells need to improve to remain at least somewhat relevant.

A fighter-mage type character will need a reason to cast these spells in lieu of using the more powerful weapons they find as the game goes on.

In my opinion, making these spells inflict a single, very powerful hit that improves with level would make them appealing to fighter-mages at least. They would be used much like a melee-ranged HLA as a special combat technique. A duration-based magical weapon is doomed to failure as it cannot provide any kind of appealing alternative to mid-game weapons.

Cure WoundsBack to SR. I do not want an hypothetical Cause Light Wounds to be a match for Magic Missile , but 1d8+5 with no range compared to 5d4+5 with long range (and multiple hits) should cause this reaction (or this ) to anyone trying to balance the overall spell system. Am I wrong?

I cannot recall if the cause wounds line requires a to-hit roll right now, but if they do then I see that as reason enough for them to be more damaging than Magic Missile.

I do not think there is a niche for an anti-mage specific disabling spell unless in pierces spell protections, as you said. This is due to the fact that, once spell protections are removed, it is easy enough to swat the mage with any damage effect. In this scenario, nearly any damage spell functions as an anti-mage spell due to their low HP.

Some options are:

1) Feeblemind pierces spell protections and disables mages. Perhaps an interesting alternative to the large AoE-disabling spells like Confusion and Chaos that are available around the same level. You would have to rationalize why spell protections are ignored somehow.

2) Feeblemind permanently incapacitates the target but inflicts a side effect on a successful save. Is this patently superior to Polymorph Other?

3) Feeblemind's saving throw penalty increases with caster level.

4) Feeblemind's secondary effect gains an increasing AoE with caster level.

5) Feeblemind pierces magic resistance. Rationalization necessary again.

6) Feeblemind forces the target to save every round or be confused for that round, rather than save once for permanent confusion.

Feeblemind

Just bouncing ideas off the wall, but perhaps it could cause the loss of memorized spells?

Anyway, I didn't get much feedback on this (only you and Adanis), I'd really like to know what other SR players think.

I don't think the damage makes much sense. You mentioned Lightning Bolt still doing partial damage on a successful save. Just like Lightning Bolt's similar but reduced effect on save, it would make more sense if this spell inflicted a lessened amount of mental debilitation on save. Perhaps a 10% miscast magic chance combined with a 15% reduction to INT.