Lawlight

Revised Backstabbing

So currently the ranged version doesn't work for BG(2)EE, because ToBex is required for this component to work, but is there any particular reason to exclude BG(2)EE Users from installing the other two (melee) components? (I guess there is...)

Slow

- if Slow doesn't trigger enough against warriors we can now make it cancel Haste even on a failed save (Haste already automatically cancel Slow)

- what about making Slow not counter Improved Haste? (It's a nice "buff" to IH for those players that feel I nerfed it too much)

- I think I can even make IH "cancel" and override normal Haste, while making sure the opposite doesn't happen

I like.

OMG! I was so thrilled about Revised Backstabbing (especially ranged backstabbing) Revised Critical Hits only to see that both components dont work for BG2EE. Any chance that the developers ever include the required ToBex features?

// very sad panda

One more random idea I had was to make this spell grant the caster fighter's base thac0 for a prolonged amount of time, but I fear it would change PnP concept too much.

I like this idea, because it favours true class in comparison to:

Beta testers have suggested to simply reduce the thac0 bonus (e.g. +4) while increasing the spell duration (e.g. 10 rounds).

Hunter's eye - self only, +1 backstab multiplier (aka x2 for True Ranger)

Cool idea. x2 isn't op and expands the use of stealth.

I'm glad to read this Demi.

Will 3.1 include all the Items that are not yet touched (like Moon Dog Figure, Jade Hound Figurine, Big Metal Unit, Big Metal Rod, Shakti Figurine, Golem Manuels, Web Sack, all the rods out there etc.)?

Both. *g*

They have - in the current build.

Cavalier

Has still access to Divine Spellcasting?

Dumped in woods, Gorion found him, yet he remained true to his wild-natured spirit.

+10 for creativity

But you have to admit that Valygar would be an appropriate candidat for a feralan kit, at least in term of his sincere, amiable and sunny personality...

Stalker

Jokes aside, imo the Stalker should outshine every other class/kit in term of stealth. He is the best candidate for a 'hide in combat' feature. Something like:

- SHADOW STEP: The Stalker can instantly "teleport" to any place within 15? yards of his sight and immediately becomes invisible

- and/or a passive ability with a small (on hit) chance to become invisible

As already suggested, True Strike, Invisibility, imp.Invisibility, I'm fine with them getting Haste as well. All as innate abilities, no druid spellcasting for them.

Agree on the 'no druid spellcasting' part. I'd love to see these generic arcane spells replaced with a "unique" set of abilities instead.

permanent non-detection

Like that.

Other:

Maybe even two points in one-handed weapon fighting style at first level.

Yet another class with a rage like ability (Feral Rage). No offense meant, but no thanks. I think it's against KR's philosophy anyways...

And I can't think of any good way to explain how charname could've become a feralan...

As for Divine Remix' Feralan (no offense meant again):

- Can only be proficient with [...] katanas [...]

Stopped reading here...

Are you saying you don't like Valygar?!

Not even for his epic banters?!!!

Valygar: "What is your opinion on magic?"

CHARNAME :"Magic is evil."

Valygar: "Yeah. Enough talk for one day. Let's get going."

Epic....

Yeah... Awesome...

Stalker

Just hate this kit. It's overlapping with the Stalker is beyond good and evil. But you succeeded with Barbarians & Berserkers - I believe in you.

Uhm. I meant to say: overlapping with Fighter/Thief.

True Ranger

If not dualclassed to druid this class was really underpowered in vanilla. He needs some serious love imo.

EDIT: "Underpowerd" may be a bit harsh, but the class was at least unappealing in comparison to both it's own kits and warriors in general...

Archer

Besides Call Shots there is not much to add here. It'd be cool if he could craft his own arrows though.

But basically, balancing is the main problem here.

Stalker

Just hate this kit. It's overlapping with Fighter/Thief is beyond good and evil. But you succeeded with Barbarians & Berserkers - I believe in you!

Beastmaster

I am not sure why he could use druidic weapons, tbh. Scimitar? I can understand daggers/spears/bows/axes/staff/club/sling - and imo, that should be it. It's a man from wood spending his life with animals, and I don't see how you can use something such as this in wood, nor any use for it in such enviroment. It is a ceremonial druid weapon, but BM isn't a druid.

I would give him nature armor, yes (Wyvern scale, Ankheg, Dragon).

As for abilities...this kit needs serious improvements.

Basically, I'd focus him onbuffs and weak, but numerous summons (or Animal Companion, but I don't know the exact idea or how this is supposed to be implemented).

I agree on the weapon and armor part. Imo Beastmasters should be limited to weapons he could easily craft himself like axes, clubs, spears, daggers, darts, bows, quarterstaffs and slings.

He should be restricted to nature armor, yes. Other drawbacks could be a charisma penalty (not a real disadvantage within BG, but they really are natural outsiders...) and a shock state when his companion dies.

I'd focus on the Animal Comanion part instead, like Pathfinder's (3rd party) Beastmaster. AD&D allowed him to summon a horde of animals, yes, but it took him a week to gather his horde and it happend only once per year for great purposes.

Anyway, I think summoning spells don't fit the class in general.

Battle Roar and Greater Battle Roar could be appealing abilities. I don't know if Bond of Blood is implementable in a fashionable way.

As a HA it might even be conceivable that he gets a second permanent companion. Other things I could imagine are things like animal instincts or even immunity to blindness (because he can look through the eyes of his companion).

The big question is how to handle the death of a companion and the "getting a new one" part.

I've managed to upload 2 short videos of Slow Time ability. Not that this means anything now anyway , but I never uploaded a video before and wanted to check it out. Turns out, I took 2 hours to upload both...

casting time 0

casting time 1

You convinsed me.

Empty Body

Or you could leave it as it is and exclude it from Ki Pool (once per day ability).

hey already match up to fighters in terms of fighting, can disrupt spellcasters at range, have stun,save or die ability, immunities, stealth, and if not disabled, are pretty much impossible to kill.

That's pushing it a bit. But I get what you want to say. He is a very versatile fighter, yes, but please keep in mind that there is one big Ki Pool and you must choose wisely which skill to use... Once it's empty the monk has mediocre defensive capabilities at best.

The Ki Pool is one good way to balance him. Some examples:

- one could make Ki Shout the natural upgrade of Ki Arrow (which Demi already suggested) -> give Ki Arrow it's knockback for low level then...

- Quivering Palm could join the Ki Pool (maybe in a nerfed state) to even more force wise decisions

Other than that:

- future update of SR (Imp. Haste) will balance out Stunning Blow and damage output a bit more

- once Empty Body works as it should, it will not longer be possible to abuse it offesively; it's a good (short) panic button then, nothing more

- Slow Time deserves to be a powerfull ability; if 1 round is too strong the duration is the best way to nerf it (3 sec was just fine)

In terms of kreso's concerns, I am troubled by the thought of the monk being "pretty much impossible to kill" as you mentioned. If this is true, his defensive prowess should be reduced a bit. If it is too easy to kill SCS mages before they get their protections up, perhaps give Slow Time a small (1-3) casting time. Keep in mind that said mages have no compunction against nuking you into oblivion while you are frozen in in time.

They are hard to kill, because of smart Abundant Step usage and teamwork. I see nothing particular wrong with this.

I'm totally against a casting time for Slow Time. It's the fact that everything is instant that allows for fast reactions. And this is by far the most fun part of KR's monk imo.

I think Slow Time really differentiates the monk from all the other warriors. It fits them really nice.

But if you are really worried about it. I could live with just a half round duration. It'd be still very usefull if used in the right moment - even with such a short duration.

I think it should be fine as an HA.

I need confirmation on this....does "Slow Time" ability last shorter than 6 seconds (1 round)?

I felt this way too. Something like 4 seconds.

If we want to keep the "cannot attack" feature I'll have to do it the hard way, similarly to how SR handle shapeshifting/polymorph abilities.

We have to. Otherwise it overlaps with Slow Time to a certain extent.

@Kalindor, I should indeed add a mention of hiding and trap detection skills. Right now I don't even remember how many skill points they get at level1 and at each level. I've also fixed Ki Shout animation to always trigger, thanks for pointing it out.

I guess you meant me. Dunno exactly about level 1 (maybe kreso can answer this - he plays BGT I think) but he gains 10skill points per level.

Empty Body was bugged until yesterday (casting time 8) thus we cannot really discuss it (I still hope setting apr to 0 works).

Last time I checked it, the monk was able to attack during this round with and apr rate of 4 instead of 5 (unhasted).

though as I said I'm not against keeping AD&D immunity to both slow and haste

1) I'm against reintroducing slow&haste immunity. Otherwise I'm with Demi here.

2) I think it is not a particular monk class phenomenom - it's a global problem with Improved Haste & warriors. I have no doubt that SR will fix that one day.

3) Factor in all these nasty equipped- and combat abilities of some of the weapons. Monk's are unable to make any (or much) use of them...

4) There are much worse caliber in terms of raw damage output.

P.S I do think I might slightly nerf those gauntlets, +4 to both attack rolls and damage rolls on a character with such a high apr is indeed too much imo.

I agree.

My little feedback:

Much better than vanilla. Still a bit weak at low levels, but really decent at mid levels.

Description

The ability to Stealth and Find Traps should be mentioned somewhere.

Slow Time

I have to agree with kreso here. It can be very devastating if used in the right moment though.

Ki Shout

Really like this one. I'm with kreso here gameplay wise.

But... sometimes a really nice animation occurs. But it only happens like 1 of 5 times. Any reason for this?

Ki Arrow

Very unappealing imo. Used it once or twice and never again. The animation is very unimpressive too.

Wholeness of Body

Nice to have.

Abduant Step

This is by far my favorite. Don't know how many times it saved him. He justed teleported into the backline and got healed by Aerie. Secondly and more important it allows for easy repositioning in cases he drew to much attention... And well, bye bye Archers...

Perhaps adding immunity to imp.haste also wouldn't be bad.

Don't like the idea. It makes no sense... SRV4 in mind, I see no need for action on this matter.

Empty Body

This ability is very different in comparison to Ki Dodge. The first thing I recognised was the extreme long cast time. It feels a bit weird. Even more because all other abilities of the monk are instant skills.

I think a description of this ability would be very helpful for some players. And a portrait icon would be cool too.

What I figured out is, that it makes you immune to all weapons, gives you invisibility + non-detection and 100% magic resistenace. While very helpful I can't really imagine how the monk can manage to constantly switch between the planes to hit the targets in the material plane (is the apr decrease there to make it more realistic?). Maybe for a blink but not constantly with a speed of 4 apr. He is no Phase Spider...

True Paladin

As I expected something has to be done in terms of caster level as I agree with Lawlight, it should be obvious for any player. For that very reason though, I actually think it would be best to avoid things like "paladin can cast spells with a caster level of x levels lower than his level" which is only a mess imo (not to mention it makes spells descriptions misleading). Don't you agree?

 

If we agree I'd simply grant paladins a +8 caster level (need ToBEx to work though) and I'll upload a new beta asap.

I couldn't agree more.

I tested this as well, created custom cleric and paladin - Paladin seems to be 8 levels behind the priest for spellcasting level. Cleric gains +2 from DUHM at level 6, Paladin at 8+6=14. It has no "early cap", even in vanilla Paladins could eventually summon Skeleton Warriors.

It is capped, at +6 bonus, as the spell says. You can't get higher scores (+7). It works as it should, I don't see any errors...was it intended to work differently?

Yes. But isn't it misleading for the mortal gamer that the caster level starts to increase at level 10, when at the same time the paladin obtains Divine Spellcasting at level 4?

Divine Power grants +18 hit points at level 26 so the progression rate I figured out, seems to be valid.

Btw. Is it intended that Divine Power has a negative impact on THACO for a Paladin?

Regarding the caster level, I asked to watch out for it because I knew it probably wasn't fine but I had no idea how exactly. I do want to try fixing it if possible (I'm not sure we can, even with ToBEx), but for that I'd need to know first the current caster level progression. Is it as the manual says? Does it have an early cap?

Manual

Paladin Level / Caster Level

9/1

10/2

11/3

12/4

13/5

14/6

15/7

16/8

17/9 cap

Draw upon Divine Might

[...]his strength, dexterity, and constitution scores are raised by 1 point for every 3 levels of the caster, to a maximum of 6 points at level 18. A third level caster would have his abilities raised by 1, while a 12th level caster would have all his abilities raised by 4.[...]

KR (tested with DuDM at each and single lvl)

Paladin Level / Caster Level

4/1

5/1

6/1

7/1

8/1

9/1

10/2

11/3

12/4

13/5

14/6 (DuDM +2)

15/7

16/8

17/9 (DuDM +3)

18/10

19/11

20/12 (DuDM +4) (no cap?)

21/13

22/14

23/15 (DuDM +5)

24/16

25/17

26/18 (DuDM +6)

27/?

Conclusion

It works exactly as mentioned in the manual except for the cap. Imo this progression rate is very misleading. The progression should start at level 4(5) and not at 9(10) within Kr.