zenblack

After playing through IWD:EE I think we need an option to use the IWD spell effects. They are just IMO better. Grease, Web, Clouds all look much cleaner.

Unfortunately, it looks like the SR curse has been transferred to Kreso now. Seems it will be stuck forever in limbo.

Just use Infinity Animations; they contain Greater Basilisks.

 

I'm hoping to release v31 of SCS in the next few weeks, and so I've been going through these scripting modifications. Many are straightforward fixes to errors in SCS v30, and others are clearly sensible given SR. But I have a residual list where I'm not sure about the rationale and haven't implemented on my local v31. I thought I'd list them here to see if Kreso or others can advise! (I'm unfamiliar enough with SR that it's probable I'm often missing something.)

 

 

I'm not:

ignoring Spell Turning/Deflection, since I think it will lead to lots of targeting of protected creatures when unprotected ones are available (though elsewhere in v31 I do pay some attention to the need to force them sometimes)

avoiding checking for Slay before casting FoD

telling Anadramatis to cast Pierce Magic instead of Pierce Shield (he doesn't have it learned)

letting Imix be subtle about spell turning. (Not everyone is perfect)

worrying about SR school changes when the relevant specialist doesn't actually use the spell anyway

dropping the saving throw check for the Wand of Paralysis

dropping the pro/magic weapons check for touch attacks

dropping the Mirror Image check for touch attacks and the Wand of Frost

turning off the Stun check for Symbol of Stun

casting monster summoning as a long-term buff (that breaks the rules for what counts as a longterm buff)

Using Mind Blank or Protection from the Elements, since I don't think anyone has it memorised

Replacing SI:Conjuration with SI:Abjuration in fighter-mage buffing (that routine already sometimes gives them SI:Abjuration)

Memorising Summon Djinni, since we don't have scripting to cast it

Giving Conjurers Wail of the Banshee, since it gets in the way of the thematic specialisations

Giving necromancers Bigby's crushing hand rather than PW: kill (ditto)

 

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Thanks Demi! Sorry you had such a hard time with github. Looks like a good patch.

Happy Holidays.

 

Well a Cornugon for lower levels and Pit Fiend for higher. That should buy Lavok 2 rounds to get his CC in line.

 

Add the devils near the entrance, because otherwise, cheesing him will be still as easy as it is right now.

 

I'll try to do something about this tomorrow, I should have time for such things. 2 Cornugons? Note that I'll probably write this as a "standalone" mod; since this doesn't really have anything to do with SCS.

 

While your at it you might want to add some orc or fighter reinforcements or perhaps a golem to Conster. Same with Vithal; I'm not sure what would be thematic.

 

Even a very powerful mage can be surprised/taken off-guard, and that's when mages are at their weakest.

I agree, but to enter Lavok's Sphere you need to initiate plane travel. I don't think this guy would be so dumb not to notice he is traveling.

 

 

I don't think Lavok should have a pet lich. A lich is generally the one in charge, unless the master is also a lich...

 

Perhaps AI mages need a new form of HP boost .. Something to let them survive a few more rounds. Or just give them more simulacra / clones...

I was just tossing ideas, I haven't given this much tought.

HP boost won't happen, mages are super-HP buffed already (Tolgerias has 96 HP for example). Simmys I'd prefer to remove from the game rather than be used more.

 

 

For what it's worth I think adding a component that increases the end battle of a questline is a good thing. Second you can script it so that there are differing levels of creatures spawned based on level. So for low level parties that do the Wizard stronghold first you could spawn lower rank demons. I would prefer a maralith to be honest, or perhaps a succubus consort. Something you don't see much in SoA and at a level where 1 would be a fun challenge as opposed to a speedbump.

This level/XP dependant style enemies are doable, but I'd rather avoid it. It's a *very* stupid mechanic imo. Marlith/Glabrezu sounds nice there, but Lavok is Lawful (I think?) so I'd vote for some devils instead...

 

Well a Cornugon for lower levels and Pit Fiend for higher. That should buy Lavok 2 rounds to get his CC in line.

For what it's worth I think adding a component that increases the end battle of a questline is a good thing. Second you can script it so that there are differing levels of creatures spawned based on level. So for low level parties that do the Wizard stronghold first you could spawn lower rank demons. I would prefer a maralith to be honest, or perhaps a succubus consort. Something you don't see much in SoA and at a level where 1 would be a fun challenge as opposed to a speedbump.

Conster has this issue in Firekragg's Lair as well as the Druid Grove if you don't poison it. If you poison you get an epic battle with high level druids for your level whereas the 1 on 1 vs Faldorn is lame. I mostly consider the Rakasha battle the boss battle for that stronghold.

SCS improved certain stronghold battles like the Shadow Grove so I don't think it would be too far to add it to certain mage-style battles.

I can't think of too many encounters outside of Lavok, Conster, and Vithal that don't have an added meat-shield component to encounters with mages. Perhaps the Alhoon battle.

Kreso,

How large are the improvements that you have submitted for the next version of IR for EE? I ask because I am tired of waiting and if they are only QoL improvements and not major (like concentration checks) then it isn't worth the aggravation of having someone other than yourself held accountable for release.

Hello weekend! Will we see something behind door number 2?

Looks like this is delayed? Thanks for the effort Kreso.

And regardless, if you can't deal with Pit Fiends you won't be able to get through the end of ToB.

Here comes the weekend; will the new version be out

Demi, how about re-introducing Charm Animal for 1st-level druid spells? Imo it fits into the concept, and with the new druidic summons it can still be fairly useful all the way up to BG2 (hijacking enemy wyverns and whatnot).

 

Also the whole idea of slaughtering every wolf the party encounters (even if said party consists entirely of druids) is just disheartening.

 

(also, adding Charm Animal is a great excuse to throw Armor of Faith away from druidic spellbook)

 

Wyvern's are not animals and the AI doesn't use most of the Animal Summoning spells, combined with the fact there are very few druids in the game as a whole. Also there is already a charm animal spell in the druid spellbook. Last but not least, Armor of Faith replacement should be a decent spell, not something so gimpy.

I think that adding both is a good start. The question of the ranged bonus AC is just how much you feel is appropriate for a Lv1 spell. You might also consider lowering the duration to 5 rounds. I would state that the AI uses this spell like it used Blindness so it thinks that it will protect it from melee. You might want to consider removing that AC penalty for melee otherwise the AI will be using it improperly and it isn't unrealistic to think that even fighting melee in a thick fog things would be less accurate.

 

I did want to say that Waves of Exhaustion works like a charm and seems to work for the AI as a CC measure even though it isn't as potent as Chaos (overpowered as it is in vanilla). I haven't played enough to say it works for all the mage encounters since Chaos is integral part of every mage script. It may need a buff in terms of some of the penalties but it is better than I thought it would be out of the gate.

 

Edit: Might as well let you know that Detect Alignment still has Lv2 in the description while I'm at it.

 

anti-blindness helmet

That helmet does nothing vs Obscuring Mist, unless you tweaked it yourself.

The spell should be probably tweaked so that creatures within the cloud get a significant AC bonus vs missiles (it should provide "cover" from missile fire).

 

Except prevent the blindness effect unless it's just the icon it prevents. I admit I didn't turn on tobex's verbose to hit rolls to check yet.

Obscuring Mist

The +2 AC penalty just makes every fight with it even easier consider lowering this to +1. It is now far better than Defensive Harmony since the AI doesn't move out of it. Maybe there should be an attatched missile AC bonus for being in the cloud. This should curb it's power at lower levels. It's by far the best spell up to chapter 5 in BGT so far and you get so many.

This actually makes sense. Also it will add even more utility to this spell (i.e. protecting your own party from enemy archers).

Guys, maybe I'm missing something but I don't follow you. How can a -2 AC penalty turn this spell into a Defensive Harmony variant? EVERYONE, enemies and allies, suffer -2 penalty to AC and -2 penalty to melee attacks, which means they sort of negate each other. An enemy within the cloud doesn't actually have a harder time hitting you in melee.

 

Otoh, everyone suffer an additional -4 penalty to ranged attacks (btw, giving enemies such penalty is the same thing as giving AC bonus vs such attacks to allies). Ranged combat within the cloud is hampered for both enemies and allies.

 

What am I missing?

I don't know how long it's been since you've actually played, but BG1 is all about ranged weapons and BG2 until halfway through they are still very powerful. What you are missing is that you don't cast it on your own party, you cast it on your enemy and your one melee tank that is keeping them all together. Since the AI doesn't know to move out and the blindness prevents them from being able to switch targets to other party members they stand in the cloud getting shot to death with your melee tank (while the tank is similarly affected, even with Item Randomizer you get a anti-blindness helmet very early in both BG1 and BG2 with Item Revisions so it doesn't affect them for long). The +2 Bonus to AC just makes it easier to kill higher AC enemies with your archers. They are getting combined 8-10 attacks a round while your tank at best is getting 3/2 or 2 so it doesn't matter.

 

So with the new beta the obscuring mist cheese is getting pretty intense. It's going to be important for someone to introduce AI that recognizes it because SCS currently does not. Also I noticed that spells like command and hold person are targeting dwarves first instead of non-shorty races (that are in the same range) for the best chance of actually getting the saving throw. Neira tried to land 2 commands and a hold person all on Kaigen even though there was a nice squishy elven bard next to him.

 

This might want to be passed on to David W. or potentially kreso or Mad Mate to see if it can be addressed since SCS has it's SRv4 specific code.

- to make AI run from Obscuring Mist is easilly doable I think. I don't know if it's worth it however, since the spell is very spammable, and I fear it would cause more trouble than it does now. Maybe the spell could last shorter.

- AI prefers to disable "strong targets" like fighters with disables like Hold, so this is not a bug. There are no race (in your case Dwarf) specific checks apart Charm and Sleep not being used on elves, nor for the weakest saves in party.

 

I don't know if the duration should be nerfed enough based on the continued buffing it keeps getting. The +2 AC penalty just makes every fight with it even easier consider lowering this to +1. It is now far better than Defensive Harmony since the AI doesn't move out of it. Maybe there should be an attatched missile AC bonus for being in the cloud. This should curb it's power at lower levels. It's by far the best spell up to chapter 5 in BGT so far and you get so many.

So with the new beta the obscuring mist cheese is getting pretty intense. It's going to be important for someone to introduce AI that recognizes it because SCS currently does not. Also I noticed that spells like command and hold person are targeting dwarves first instead of non-shorty races (that are in the same range) for the best chance of actually getting the saving throw. Neira tried to land 2 commands and a hold person all on Kaigen even though there was a nice squishy elven bard next to him.

This might want to be passed on to David W. or potentially kreso or Mad Mate to see if it can be addressed since SCS has it's SRv4 specific code.

As long as we are talking the Regen spell line I will throw in my 2 cents. I have played with them since they have introduced through the entire span of the game with more than a few druids and I think they are really close to being exactly right. The main problem I have with them is that they slow down your game. I feel the max ability to heal is right on but the speed of the healing is off by 1 tier. Early in the game you spend alot of time sitting around waiting for the regen to finish because typically you're healing a frontliner from a previous fight but you don't have 3 minutes before your next fight that could kill them. Later in the game you abandon all except the 5+ Spell Level ones (which are in heavy competition with actual good druid spells) since they take so long you are only every using them to top off a squishy backliner. The top tier regens are great with the exception you can't keep them on which Kreso has addressed. Mass Regen isn't very competitive and when you weigh it vs Regenerate it never wins out in my book.

My suggestion would be to up the lower level Regen rate and cut down their duration to fit your max values. This would make the regen time for most 15 rounds unless you can vary the rate of regen or want to change the max heal values (which again, I feel are spot on).

I should include that I don't rest after every encounter like some players (which I doubt even use the Regen spells). This only affects those of us who try to run out of spells or not abuse the rest system.

So does this version include the fix to Dispelling Screen or no?

I was just going to post about the non-working spells but it looks like MM got to them. Obscuring mist also still in Cleric/Paladin spellbook but not in Rangers, if you didn't catch that.

Obscuring Mist: Hotkey BAM is wrong, uses the old Blindness one. Also scroll cast is set to self and not target.

 

I'm not swapping AoF with ASI, Druids got an almost entire new set of lvl 1 spells (Sunscorch, Faerie Fire and Strength of Stone from V3, Regenerate Light Wounds, Animal Summoning I and Obscuring Mist within V4).

 

On a side note, Magic Fang and Animal Growth are not supposed to be used for ASI.

Yes, and of all those spells only 1 of them is of consistent use Lv10+. AoF happens to be the only other real spell that druids have that they will use for Lv1 slots at upper levels because it actually provides a benefit that remains consistent at upper levels. AS1, no matter how you tweak it or attempt to make it usable with other spells will never be that because of the inherent structure of summoning spells. While mages and clerics get consideration of higher levels and having usable spells and choices at those levels, druids do not and with the removal of AoF and not replacing it with a similar "druidy" variant you are in effect throttling druids for the bulk of their play and making them more unattractive than they already are.

The AS line of spells isn't going to open up variability for druids due to a number of limitations the least of which is the BG engine and viable animations and not tabletop. Thus the argument that AS provides spell variability is untrue and should not be a factor when considering spells being removed due to "having enough spells".

Ug. No animal summoning should cause druids to lose spells. AS are terrible spells that are only marginally useful that become useless 2 levels later. Making a druid cast 3 spells to try to make them useful is even worse because it doesn't work. Don't remove AoF unless you are providing a spell that they will use when they are lv 10+.