aigleborgne

I will look at it but currently, from memory, I had a lot of ideas concerning stores in BG1. So many cheap or overpowered items that make the game to easy. To name a few: arrows of detonation/dispelling, wand of monster summoning.... I need some time to re-acquire this game I left away for several years now

But clearly, Iron crisis is totally ignored by many stores! Especailly, sorcerous sundries (each game my party first reached it, I was thinking: "ok, from now, it will be a lot easier", considering I was playing no reload)

And from my point of view, no store should have unlimited supply (except normal amunitions). Most magic things like scrolls, potions, wands, magic arrows.... should be quite limited.

Having a level 7-8 mage carrying many scrolls of level 4-5 spells gives him a lot of firepower. In fact, it is possible to beat the game with mostly items use (wands, potions, scrolls) instead of strategic skills use and I strongly think it should be the latter.

 

Hi Demivrgvs,

 

I am very interested in all revisions (items, spells, and kits). Could you possibly send me downloads link please?

I want to test them in my ongoing installation based on BGT. I want to test SR with SCS and make sure all spells are used in the best ways possible by AI.

As for items, it's the first version that can be installed in BG1.

Cool! Btw, it's not the first version which can be installed on BG1, I simply did more stuff for BG1 than I did for old versions. Unfortunately Store Revisions doesn't affect BG1 yet, but if you have suggestions for it you're welcome.

 

Hi Demivrgvs,

I am very interested in all revisions (items, spells, and kits). Could you possibly send me downloads link please?

I want to test them in my ongoing installation based on BGT. I want to test SR with SCS and make sure all spells are used in the best ways possible by AI.

As for items, it's the first version that can be installed in BG1.

Most players know rules and spells. Just don't abuse engine flaws. Don't control a charmed person. Don't try to get it killed or attack it.

Mimic AI:ignore it. This is what I do...

Very interestng mod, I will test it and most likely add it to my favorite mod list

Keep it up !

This sounds very strange, an unbuffed shadow should hit an unproteced mage with AC 6-10 with a 65-85% chance. Multiple shadows would cause the mage to be hit at least once per round if not more...

 

Which known bug? I don't remember it. Btw, I'll take a look at the scripts when I get back home because right now I don't even remember how I scripted them.

Here is the link :

http://www.shsforums...tackreevaluate/

I will test again these summons. I just have to make sure they roll a dice on each attack, if not, it is that known bug related to attacks.

SM III vs SS

 

In my experience, they are equivalent more or less so I would not change anything.

They are certainly not, and even without ogre-mage.

My test was simple: a few unprotected mage (AC between 6 and 10), doing nothing (moving a bit at best). An enemy cast 2 shadows spells and stop casting. There were 4 shadows attacking my casters. Yet, they standed for about 3 minutes, not worrying about these weak shadows that seemed to have very hard time to hit their target.

I can assure you that ogres don't have this problem, although I haven't tested it recently.

Maybe it has something to do with known AttackOneRound or AttackReevaluate bug, I don't know.

Whatever it is, summon shadows is weak. They are surely survive longer but this is not the point.

I was mostly referring to cast spells on summons. So it concerned casters which are generally intelligent.

For Skeleton Warrior, it is very resilient but offensively, it is rather weak. And players use it because it is resilient: summon one and send him to absorb all hits & spells, then enter battle.

Intelligent casters shoudn't waste spells on summons, and even less on skeleton warriors.

Now, level 7 summons are generally quite strong offensively and it is a good thing.

As far as I am concerned, I would choose offense over defense.

For Wyverns, you should replace it by monster summoning IV. I have always liked monster summoning spells and that one with ogres is very good !

For all other suggestions, I think they are good, I don't have time to detail

Tanking is pointless as enemies shoudn't focus summons, or at least, not that much.

When an enemy mage summon creatures, I'll focus him with all I have to bring him down.

AI scripts should act like this and not waste spells on summons.

You aren't quite right. There are few things as annoying as watching AI to ignore a summon and keep hitting the caster. Why else would one use a summon if not to distract the enemy and give oneself more breathing room?

So, you are telling me that your party will get distracted by enemies' summons ? You are attacking a mage, he cast some summons and suddenly, you got distracted and give him some room by targetting his summons?

If the answer is yes for you, it will certainly be no for most players.

Otherwise, you would suggest to make AI dumb and get distracted by summons while players aren't ?

Nobody should be "distracted" by summons. Summon can be a threat, more or less important, they should have damaging or disabling abilities.

This way, even they are beeing ignored, they will still be a danger for their enemies.

By that time, caster can still do something : fleeing, going invisible, trying to cast more summons or other spells.

His summons are his weapons and sometimes, they can do incredible damage. Even if caster is slained, some attackers might die to summons after his death.

Summon Shadow

This currently is the only necromantic spell available at 5th lvl (though I'm going to suggest adding Waves of Fatigue). On paper this spell is actually better than Conjure Lesser Elementals, but I never managed to test it enough on an actual game.

I have already said it but to me, this spell is very weak in BG1. Shadows have very bad thac0, very low damage (with about 1 apr). I think pretty much all other summon spells are better : spider spawn, monster summoning 1 or 2.

Now I haven't tested it with wraith so I can't tell later on.

Tanking is pointless as enemies shoudn't focus summons, or at least, not that much.

When an enemy mage summon creatures, I'll focus him with all I have to bring him down.

AI scripts should act like this and not waste spells on summons. For attack, it is a bit more tedious as scripting engine is rather limited.

But all in all, summons should bring something usefull for party, other than tanking ability.

Contagion

I think I never used this spell in my life, not even after SR's buff. What do you think of it? Is there something I should do?

I use it on some necromancers, it is efficient on fighter. Despair is overall better, but Contagion also slows its target, which is a good point.

Greater Malison

What about making it count as a not dispellable curse? It does fit the concept imo, and this buff may please those who didn't liked me making this spell as per PnP (aka halving the monstrous -4 penalty to saves). I'd obviously make Break Enchantment work against it.

-2 penalty is still good to have and keep in mind that SR also add many penalties to other spells. It would be too much with -4 to this one.

Ice Storm

I think it's fine, but I'd like to know players opinion. Does many of you use this spell? How does it perform?

It is a good one. Some of my conjurers use it but they need to cast immunity to evocation because minor globe won't work here. In bg1 (where I'm working on), minor globe covers most needs of spell protection, and it is a pain to have to cast immunity to evocation just for a few spells. But Davaeorn uses it along side with fireball and lightning bolt, and all of them are very efficient

Otiluke's Resilient Sphere

Did I do a good work on it? Is it fine now?

 

Polymorph Other

Did I do a good work on it? Is it fine now? This spell is really a pain to balance and I need your feedback.

My enchanters use them a lot. First, it is almost impossible to script Otiluke's Resilient Sphere in a defensive goal. So I'm only using it as a disabler, like Polymorph other.

In that regard, Polymorph other is clearly better, so I only use Otiluke on some occasion for more variety.

Polymorph Other is a deadly spell. With proper detection spell on this one, an enchanter can totally disable several players, and combine with other enchantment spells, he can pretty cause havoc on party

Polymorph Self

The flaming halberd wielding Flind form will be replaced by a much better Fire Salamander form. I would add a Troll form, but it may not necessarily replace the Ogre form as the latter offer an option with a +2 blunt weapon (aka an anti-golem form).

Polymorph Self is a very important spell to me, as it allows mage to enter combat at low levels. But I haven't played with this spell since I haven't made any level 7+ transmuters yet.

Simbul's Spell Matrix

As discussed elsewhere. We're seriously thinking to make all sequencer and contingencies innates at will abilities gained by mages at lvl up. It would make SCS fights more fair (SCS mages always have all triggers/contingecies ready), and it would eliminate the odd "rest - prepare triggers - rest again" routine I hear from most players (though I never did it).

This is a good idea, since for example, all these spells are a pain for sorcerer with their small limitation of spells.

And memorize, sleep, and then replaced by another spell, sleep again... painfull !!

I like these changes a lot. This would make a use for casters that like to summon weapon (was thinking of black blade of disaster for example)

Haste & Improved Haste

Polytope's point is indeed valid (IH has much more potential if cast on multiple fighters), but I actually think even a single IH on a dual-wielder fighter can be hugely more effective than Haste on multiple fighters. First of all, you're going to cast IH on your best fighter, and granting 2x apr to the warrior wielding your best weapon/equipment/stats is exponentially more effective than +1apr to multiple characters imo (e.g. if such "champion" had 4 apr you would need at least 4 fighters of identical power level to reach the same effectiveness with a normal Haste, and you'd be using four chars to achieve what you could have done with only one, leaving the other three to different duties!).

 

On top of that, IH lasts twice as much as Haste and doesn't cause fatigue! Long story short, if used on a dual wielder the current Improved Haste pratically is Greater Whirlwind Attack on steroids imo (lasts 20 times more, improves AC/THAC0, boosts regeneration, allows super fast movements).

 

As you might have guessed I do think IH is kinda OP when cast on certain characters, but at the same time it's very lame when cast on non-warriors! It's ridiculous that casting a 6th lvl IH on an rogue/priest gives you +1 apr to a single character when the 3rd lvl Haste would have given you +1 apr to the whole party!

 

So, what I already planned to suggest is to make Improved Haste grant +2 apr instead of 2x, evening its effectiveness on all characters (and all weapon styles, as it would also be a more fair solution to balance 2handers and dual wielders).

 

Summarizing what I wanted to suggest, 3rd lvl Haste:

* +1 apr, AC, THAC0, and speed factor (the latter would be a new entry)

* if possible something like +50% movement rate instead of th current +100%

* last 10 rounds

* whole party, but 5 rounds fatigue after it (note that SR's fatigue also affect spellcaster's casting speed factor)

 

6th lvl Improved Haste:

* +2 apr (finally affecting non-warriors), AC, THAC0, and speed factor

* +100% movement rate

* last up to 20 rounds

* single target, but no fatigue after it

You got a point here. Improved haste is very efficient a on group with many fighters that dual wield.

I don't know current duration of Improved haste but maybe 1 round / 3 level would be do it.

It would be : 4 round at level 12 up to 6 round at level 18

Is it really? Improved haste is only efficient on a fighter, and it is a single target spell.

That effect can be dispelled, or its target disable...

 

It's also a level 6 spell...

One level 3 haste is, to me, more efficient than a single improved haste (unless playing a solo F/M)

 

I think about it this way; level 13+ fighters probably have 3.5 apr (with 2 weapon fighting), assuming you have 3 such fighters in your party (or equivalent) that's 10.5 apr in total (okay, your cleric and thief can contribute in melee, but maybe you only have 2 fighters, or not all of them are using 2 weapon style, so let's assume it balances out).

 

Casting Haste raises each fighters apr to 4 (as it's always a whole number with vanilla haste) or 12 in total, a net increase of 1.5 apr.

 

Casting Improved Haste on one fighter raises apr to 7, a net increase of 3.5 apr... That alone is more than twice as useful as hasting all your fighters in terms of damage (discounting movement rate and attack speed factor for the moment, though they are relevant in many fights). However, regular Haste is not stackable, whereas you can IH each of your fighters to get 21 apr in total, a net increase of 10.5 apr.

 

I suspect Improved Haste and Whirlwind are the main reason so many ToB creatures have way more hp than they should, per 2nd ed.

Is it really? Improved haste is only efficient on a fighter, and it is a single target spell.

That effect can be dispelled, or its target disable...

It's also a level 6 spell...

One level 3 haste is, to me, more efficient than a single improved haste (unless playing a solo F/M)

Improved Haste is the real game-breaker, and comes with it's own hardcoded stat for AI purposes - possibly it could be balanced with a shorter duration or even a mild damage penalty (you can use the Kai opcode with a negative value to avoid wraparound bugs) to reflect that striking twice as frequently necessarily means striking less accurately and forcefully.

I don't use it directly but I'm modding for BG1, so a few druids use it, as a fireball then.

Amarande (level 13 druid) use it and it is devastating.

Well, my party didn't fight back so it is highly probable that I could interrupt a few cast

Casting time 1 round should balance it (I haven't had much experience with it admittedly)? Do you use it in the defensive sense ("trap") or basically as a fireball?

Ehh? Are you guys sure? I was almost sure neither haste nor slow opcodes had any effect on spellcasting (only the casting glow animation was affected). Sounds like I have to test it again, especially considering both spells have this line "Spellcasting and spell effects are not affected" in their description!

Well, in my game, it is clearly written : "Spellcasting time is doubled" for slow. And I have tested it, it works well

Yeah, but Improved Invisibility really doesn't suit druids, and we cannot turn avery druid in the game into an Avenger.

Hopefully, there are not too many druids. Druids have high AC, and thus, even with Iron skin, they drop quite easily. This is why improved invisibility is so good.

But it is a sad conclusion : most spellcasters rely on on this effect to stay alive. Players just have to be ready to cancel invisibility.

Can you please report your tests to us? You really don't know how much hope I have in that tweak! If it works as intended it should finally allow priests to perform their role even wthout PfMW-like buffs thanks to their heavy armors and hp.

I will, but it is difficult to test it properly !

Oh and I was wondering if Fire trap is not a bit overpowered ? A level 2 area of effect spell that doesn't harm friends...

In my tests, I have moved it high on priority list, it's better than most level 3 spells.

It was very welcome for druid to have good level 2 spells but I guess it's a little too good ?

I meant AI, not IA (in french, AI become IA)

I have tested slow a lot while modding and I assure you it is worst for caster than fighters. Slow movement speed + double casting time make a spellcaster very fragile.

I have also abused haste spell on a conjurer : Cythandria. She cast about 4-5 summons spells and then she cast haste, deadly !!

About Insect Plague feedback, I like it a lot.

I gave it to Amarande (archdruid in cloakwood) and this spell, alone, gives him an edge over the battle.

Now, a big problem of divine spellcasters is their lack of magic protection.

Druid have almost nothing to protect them from spells, so they can easily be interrupted by spells.

See a druid cast insect plague? you have a full round to interrupt him!

It's less easy when you fight a full group, but when it is a lone caster, it's rather easy.

To prevent this, I made it an avenger and improved invisibility is a life saver (as for many spellcasters too)

I should see what TobEx can do about this. I've installed new spellcasting interrupt system (and no interrupt on 0 damage) but didn't test it yet.

I agree with you about haste.

For a very long time, it has been an overpowered spell and still is.

Now, hit & run with haste and boots is a strategy I wouldn't use now because IA can't do anything about this.

Beside this problem, haste might powerful but enemies can use it too. Currently, very few mages use haste, at least in BG1.

It's clearly a bad spellbook conception, or maybe a choice to make the game easier for beginners?

Anyways, slow has been improved. I already liked it before and I use it even more now.

A big problem with those 2 spells is that together, they are too good. See enemies? Cast haste then slow, and eat them easily !

If you know they will use those spells, time them carefully and you will cancel their haste and cancel your own slow... Well, you win on both plans.

The thing is you can do so little about this poor IA.

Insect plague : between one round and casting time 5, there is only one? Doesn't make a big difference to me!

Chaos : I like new saving throws but I agree that duration is a bit long. It just mean a level 9 mage can disable a whole group for 1 turn (at low levels, it is hard to save at -4).

If that mage has allies, it is enough time to kill the whole party. 5 rounds was already long enough, you were in bad shape if chaos touched too many characters.

Hi all, just some feedback and my opinon about:

 

Haste level 3 :

From my humble gamer experience, I do think that this spell remain overpowered.

The main problem is that this spell allow player to hit and run really easily. IA cannot do same and the player is clearly advantaged.

Especially combined with boots of rapidity, you can move around the map soooo fast that it allow multiples way of taking advantage of the speed during a fight.(many tricks that IA will never do)

Another consequence is that teleport spell appears ridiculous now that you can move from one side to another one of a map in 10 s.

Even without boots of rapidity, the ability to move fast remain powerfull and really underestimated Imo.

　

Others advantages of haste make this spell so attrative in comparaison to others level 3 spell :

- Can be cast quickly on all team (included summons and allied)

- Double the rate of regenerating. (so powerfull, especially on a charater with regenerating items)

- more ApR for all team. (it would be good to fix the only + 1/2 ApR though)

- +1 bonus bonus to attack roll,initiative, AC, savevs breath

- decent duration if used wisely.

 

Drawbacks are light in comparaison :

I don't know about a BG1 experience right now but in my current BG2 game, It's easy with a minimum of brain to suffer little from the winded effect ,managing to finish the fight before the end of the spell, casting long casting spell during the hasted period etc...

Poison effect is also doubled while hasted and can be a drawback but we ofen cure a poisoned hasted characted very quicly.

　

I would suggest that the spell haste level 3 provide only a little and symbolic bonus to movement rate (something like +1 or +2 not sure).

==> I think surely slow spell (level3) should deserve the same.

I would allow a double movement rate or slow effect only for spell affecting only one creature. (allowing to make these spell also more attractive).

 

Insect Plague level 5 :

About insect plague : I don't know about others players but I don't like the one round casting duration. I have not memorized this spell at all in my game. The vanilla casting time (5) was fine Imo.

 

Chaos level 5:

Again, from my gamer experience, I think the vanilla duration was fine. (5 rounds + 1every 6level). I actually play with the vanilla duration and enemy have ofen the time to recover from chaos effects. It's really fun when you must finish a mage before chaos takes end. Why only me complain about a 10 round duration?

 

　

Lower Resistance:

Maybe I am wrong but in vanilla, I remember that a string in the box indicated the amount of magic resistance lowered. Same for Pierce magic.

I'm also interested by kit revision, it would be very interesing as current kits are seriously imbalanced.

I know it might take some time for SR v4 but I trust you are that kind of modder that won't just suddenly disappear from the scene, leaving his projects incomplete. You might take some time but in the end you deliver. Thanks for that.

I feel targeted by your description lol.

Yes, so do I. And I'll need to check again all my spellbooks to see what should be changed with SR 4.0 !

Hopefully, this will be the final version eheh

It seems I will have to wait for SR v4 to really start playing this game...

My bad, didn't see there was hotfixes patch

Well, I am concerned by 2 spells : Spell shield (level 5) and spell shield (level 8)

2 differents spells with the same name.

Since the level 8 spell is an improved globe of invulnerability, I would have called it "Major Globe of Invulnerability"

Sounds like you aren't using the hotfixes, because those spells already works more or like as you wish. Secret Word is single target. Spell Thrust has a larger 15 feet radius AoE.

 

Btw, the old 5 feet radius AoE wasn't there to give those spells a real AoE, but only to make them bypass Improved Invisibility.

Happy new year

Well, back to business. I have tested Spell thrust and Secret Word

Very small radius makes it difficult to use them efficiently

5" radius, it's melee range. So, beeing area of effect is almost useless since there is almost no chance that many casters are that closed.

And melee range is tough, and if target move a bit during cast, it will just be wasted.

I would have prefer a single range target spell compared to these ones.

Or a bigger radius like 10"

Don't forget that for each revised spell, there are 2 uses : enemies and party

I'm sure a player can use these spells, but it is very tough if not impossible for a script (likely an enemy).

Ah ok, point taken then. Against players it's probably better a "glass cannon" type of summon. The only threat they pose is their STR drain, but I guess only wraith's level drain is considered a real issue, especially considering the save vs chilling touch is quite easy to make for players (then again, I purposedly made those saves quite easy because I feared more the abuse of STR/lvl drain vs AI poor saves). If we do agree about improving shadows than I think their chilling touch is pretty much the only aspect that can be buffed.

The main problem of shadows is their low thac0 and very low damage. If they get a better chilling touch, maybe it would make a difference.

As I said, I'm all for making VT grow bigger faster. After that, the other difference could be that LMD's increased max hp should be less and quicker to fade. Multiple hp increase (note: max hp, not normal heal) shouldn't stack, thus the necromancer would surely look forward to increase his max hp by 30 (which for a mage means almost doubling his base hp) for a long time instead of by 10 for a short time, wouldn't he?

I didn't check if multiple larloch life drain stack and I agree it shouldn't.

Problem with VT is that it is good at high levels, but quite average/bad at low levels. Healing part of VT or LMD at low levels is minor, if mage can be hit, he will die very quickly no matter what. I see VT are an alternative level 3 spell for a necromancer. If we do agree that life drain can only occur once, damage occur every time. And I think VT should do more damage to a single target than skull trap does.

So, if a necromancer want to damage a whole party, he choose ST, but if there is only one target, then VT should be the way to go.

Maybe, double damage at low levels, but only half damage heal ?

Btw, Skull Trap will probably be even more useful within V4 for AI controlled necromancers using undead summons, as I'm planning to make it count as negative energy damage (as per PnP) thus not affecting undead, and turning it into a sort of "party-friendly" AoE when used this way.

Can't wait to see V4 then I was testing Arkion (level 9 necromancer), first he cast 2 summon shadow and then 3 skull traps, all summons died. I was forced to inverse both spells : 3 skull traps then summon shadows.

Mmm, shadows/wraiths seemed pretty solid back then. They should peform well as "tanks" because of 50% dmg reduction and huge amount of resistances/immunities (they are both undead and incorporeal). I may have overstimated them a little, but do they really look bad compared to MSIII's ogres or ASII's leopards? Mmm...

Tanks are good vs AI. Players will just ignore them.

All my tests are done within my mod, so it is enemy that use spells on me. I prefer dangerous summon that I must disable quickly than harmless tanks that I can avoid freely.

Currently, a level 9 necromancer casting 2 summon shadow (so 6 shadows) is something player can almost ignore. Ogres don't have better thac0 but they hit like a truck with their 19 strength.

Good point. We could probably make VT's dmg/drain effect increase at a faster rate (2hp/lvl) and cap at a lower lvl (e.g. 15th). I have to keep VT's early/mid game dmg potential under control though, because it may be a close range spell but it doesn't allow any save and uses the most effective source of dmg (magic).

Larloch doesn't allow any save either and is still faster and range spell.

Again, for a necromancer, what's the point to choose vampric touch over skull trap ? Skull trap does more damage and is area of effect

I'll only add small feedbacks from time to time

Summon shadow. I tested it at level 9 and I was disapointed. 3 shadows on a level 5 party doing nothing at all but waiting to be killed.

On a fighter with 3 AC, those 3 shadows took about 5mn to kill him, maybe I got unlucky ?

Compared to monster summoning 3 or spider spawn, summon shadow seems very weak to me.

Too bad, it is the only level 5 necromancer spell. I think I would prefer only one summon but stronger. In that regard, I really like summon death knight at level 7

As others, I agree that gnolls are useless. On this level, spider spawns are a lot better, it is not even comparable.

Dimension door, can't see why I would memorize it, basically useless and at this level, there are a lot of very interesting spells.

To be honest, even as a level 1 spell, wouldn't change my mind

Color spray : one of my new favorite level 1 spell, very powerful, but need to be in close range and often miss target

True strike : I'm trying to make a good use of this one, scripting mages to cast it and attack after, but it is very difficult to use since it expires very quickly. Good combo with melf meteor through.

Larloch : previously useless, now it's good. 10 life drain is nice and my necromancers abuse it now. But now, Vampiric touch seems bad at low levels.

On a level 9 necromancer, it's about 8 for larcoch, and 12 for vampiric. Considering larloch is level 1 and cast very quickly and at range, I don't see the point to use vampiric touch below its maximal potential.

More tomorrow