"Invincible" opponents (possible bug report)

[Guest srulz]

Hi, I'm new here. Been enjoying your mod a lot, thank you for sharing with the rest of us!

 

I'm currently using a solo F/M/T. Just want to clarify a few "possible bugs":

 

1.

 

Problem: Chromatic Demon is completely immune to everything *physical*. All the elemental weakness to spells are still there, but he is just immune to my Carsomyr's slashes or my Staff of the Magi/Rynn blunt attacks.

 

Workaround: 1. Drain his Dexterity to death using Chaos Blade.

[Guest srulz]

Hi, I'm new here. Been enjoying your mod a lot, thank you for sharing with the rest of us!

 

I'm currently using a solo F/M/T. Just want to clarify a few "possible bugs":

 

1.

 

Problem: Chromatic Demon is completely immune to everything *physical*. All the elemental weakness to spells are still there, but he is just immune to my Carsomyr's slashes or my Staff of the Magi/Rynn blunt attacks.

 

Workaround: 1. Drain his Dexterity to death using Chaos Blade.

 

Sorry, accidentally posted it. Anyway, here's my workaround again:

1. Drain his Dexterity.

2. Deleted his (gorchr.cre) file from the override folder. This solved his problem quite nicely, and his tactics and spells seem to be working fine.

 

Possible reason: None that I could think of.

 

2.

 

Problem: Deirex is completely immune to everything. Spells and physical.

 

Workaround: Drain his Dexterity to death.

 

Possible reason: I've just installed the improved Drow component when I'm in the Ust Natha, before going in to fight Deirex. Before that it is not installed.

 

Thank you.

[DavidW]

The Chromatic Demon is supposed to be immune to physical attacks, so that's not a bug.

 

Deirex isn't supposed to have any particular new immunities - on the other hand, he's a high-level mage who's going to be wrapped in a lot of protective magic, so it's possible your attacks are being blocked by some of that.

[Guest srulz]

The Chromatic Demon is supposed to be immune to physical attacks, so that's not a bug.

 

Deirex isn't supposed to have any particular new immunities - on the other hand, he's a high-level mage who's going to be wrapped in a lot of protective magic, so it's possible your attacks are being blocked by some of that.

 

Wait a minute! I thought Chromatic Demon is like 95% resistant to physical attacks? I had finished the (unmodded) game once or twice before and I've been killing him just fine using GWW'ing fighters supplemented by mages. Well, yeah, I do admit that they've been dealing like 3 or 4 damage per hit, but sooner or later he died anyway. Plus, based on what I've been reading from the internet, it is possible to kill him using traps, unlike now where he's just immune to everything physical.

 

Here's an excerpt from Dan Simpson's awesome guide (well I know, it's not conclusive evidence, but still, it's there):

 

" Chromatic Demon -5 AC 140 HP -5 THAC0 4 Attacks 95% weapon res.

 

Your weapons will damage him, but they just won't do much damage. As he

is damaged, he will switch forms. Just remember what each form is weak

against...

 

Red Demon > Ice

Ice Golem > Fire

Shambling Mound > Lightning

Air Elemental > Poison

 

If you're in ToB, this is an easy enough fight, buff-up beforehand,

keep the fighters in the front and use whirlwinds. Three or four fighter

types doing 10 hits/round at 4 damage a hit should knock it down fast. "

 

Well, about Deirex, I don't really know. I've been killing Liches just fine before, and when using Carsomyr/Staff of the Magi and high-level antimagic and hiding quietly somewhere and everything, not even a super-high-level archmage would live for long. If he got Protection From Magic Weapon (the only way to counter dispelling weapons), the message should show "Weapon Ineffective", and no "Dispel Effects" message should show everytime I hit him, but that "Dispel Effects" message do show (and no "Weapon Ineffective" message show) but no damage occured. I try using Spike + normal traps to get him, but I just got a "Deirex is immune to your damage." I even tried breaching him once or twice, and that ".... protections removed" do show (so no Spell Shield/Spell Turning/Spell Trap whatever). But he is optional, so I don't believe he's that important anyway.

 

Thank you.

[DavidW]

The Chromatic Demon is supposed to be immune to physical attacks, so that's not a bug.

 

Deirex isn't supposed to have any particular new immunities - on the other hand, he's a high-level mage who's going to be wrapped in a lot of protective magic, so it's possible your attacks are being blocked by some of that.

 

Wait a minute! I thought Chromatic Demon is like 95% resistant to physical attacks? I had finished the (unmodded) game once or twice before and I've been killing him just fine using GWW'ing fighters supplemented by mages. Well, yeah, I do admit that they've been dealing like 3 or 4 damage per hit, but sooner or later he died anyway. Plus, based on what I've been reading from the internet, it is possible to kill him using traps, unlike now where he's just immune to everything physical.

 

The vanilla chromatic demon is indeed slightly vulnerable to physical attacks. The SCS2 version isn't. This is deliberate: it's intended to make the elemental aspect of injuring him more central. (That is: it's pretty clear from in-game hints that the way you're supposed to fight the demon is by alternating between various elemental damage types, but in practice even 5% vulnerability to physical damage means that people just kill it physically). I'm sympathetic to the objection that this should be mentioned in the readme.

[Proteus_za]

Deirex more than likely also has stoneskin, in which your weapon will hit but not do any damage, just dispel a stoneskin.

[Guest srulz]

Understandable, David.

 

Still, I would really hope that you'll make that option optional, and certainly at least mention it in the readme of course. Why optional? Because I believe that not every party would have enough elemental resources (spells and whatnot) to whittle the demon down, what with the increase in hitpoints and the slight regeneration (if I'm not mistaken) that he had. I do believe that the reason why original developers put in the 5% weakness is to give players options on what to do, rather then just "force" them to a specific method of defeating the demon (especially because people could lower the magical resistances of a monster, but not the physical resistances). Well, yes, players can use wands etc etc. still, I believe that there're no in-game hints that stated blatantly that the demon is completely invulnerable to everything besides the elemental weaknesses.

 

Still, it's your mod, and I have no problems with any of your "interpretations" so far (like with all the spell and item modifications), just my humble opinion!

[DavidW]

Understandable, David.

 

Still, I would really hope that you'll make that option optional, and certainly at least mention it in the readme of course. Why optional? Because I believe that not every party would have enough elemental resources (spells and whatnot) to whittle the demon down, what with the increase in hitpoints and the slight regeneration (if I'm not mistaken) that he had. I do believe that the reason why original developers put in the 5% weakness is to give players options on what to do, rather then just "force" them to a specific method of defeating the demon (especially because people could lower the magical resistances of a monster, but not the physical resistances). Well, yes, players can use wands etc etc. still, I believe that there're no in-game hints that stated blatantly that the demon is completely invulnerable to everything besides the elemental weaknesses.

 

Still, it's your mod, and I have no problems with any of your "interpretations" so far (like with all the spell and item modifications), just my humble opinion!

 

I've no problem at all with other people's opinions.

 

I don't think I agree with this one, though - any party on the 2nd level of WK ought to have ample elemental resources, particularly if they prepare, and there are some pretty blatant in-game hints.

[Icendoan]

Such as the whole aim of the level... It is, perhaps, my favourite area in the game.

 

Icen