SCS EET Run: Backstab or 3e Sneak Attack/Crippling Strike?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

The EE games add a 3e-style Sneak Attack damage bonus for flanking to Rogues and let them use it instead of Backstab via the options menu.  Backstab has the advantage of more damage but only from behind while hidden/invisible, but Sneak Attack is generally easier to position and execute.  For each, the usable weapons are the same - any melee weapon a single-classed Thief could wield.  Since our group isn't primarily built for Rogue-based damage because we like playing casters too much, and I know there are many Rogues in EET who, via SCS, will try to destroy us repeatedly with Backstab/Sneak Attack, which of these settings do you advise we use for our game and why?

Thankee!

[jmerry]

While 3E Sneak Attack is technically in the game, it's not really fully implemented in the Baldur's Gate EE series. For one thing, you can't get to it from the in-game options menu; you have to manually edit the lua file. Also, Crippling Strike is not implemented at all, and you can sneak attack repeatedly on the same target. Spurious messages are common.

 

The "flanking" condition is that you're behind the enemy, just like a backstab; the only difference is that you don't have to be invisible. Creatures that are immune to backstabs are also immune to sneak attacks.

Now, about enemy thieves ... enemies ignore the "behind" condition for backstabs, and their AI doesn't know how to get behind players. I genuinely don't know how things would work with sneak attacks instead; would they get the bonus on every hit, or would they need to be lucky enough to get behind someone?

I wouldn't recommend it. Just play with backstabs, and adjust your strategies to mitigate the big hits - equip melee weapons, keep Stoneskin up if possible, use spells like Detect Invisibility.

[subtledoctor]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:50 PM, jmerry said:

Now, about enemy thieves ... enemies ignore the "behind" condition for backstabs, and their AI doesn't know how to get behind players. I genuinely don't know how things would work with sneak attacks instead; would they get the bonus on every hit, or would they need to be lucky enough to get behind someone?

In principle I think Sneak Attack is a better fit for these games than the backstab mechanic, BUT you have hit upon the problem: enemy thieves don't just backstab, they can "facestab" in front of you if they are hidden or invisible. Because Sneak attack does not require being hidden, enemy thieves will apply sneak attack damage on every hit, from every angle, whether visible or invisible, all the time. It basically adds a big damage bonus to all enemy thieves all the time, for no coherent reason. Very unfortunate. But the flip side is, the AI does not have the ability to properly move behind you for an advantage, while players do. So applying the positioning requirement to enemies would nerf them horribly and just create a massive artificial advantage for human players.

All of which means that, for these game, traditional backstabs just work better. If you are hidden you do extra damage, if you are not hidden you don't. It is simple and applies equally and fairly to everyone.

(EDIT - I've just thought of a way to add a "flanking" bonus to thieves, it would go well in my feats mod... if I ever have time to code it up.)

Edited March 1, 2022 by subtledoctor