[BG2EE] Some issues noted and thoughts so far

[RoyalProtector]

I forgot to check out Force Mages, Wild Mages and Elementalists. Here's the possible issues found there:

1. Air elementals should probably be immune to their own spells, specifically Whirlwind (much like Sunnis is immune to its own Earthquake). I think perhaps it may be wise to take a look at creatures enhanced by mod and see how they interact with their own spells. [Fixed, elementals now immune to their own spells]
2. I think there should be documentation somewhere for elementalists that states that some HLA spells are available to them by virtue of being elementalists of that kind. For example, as an Earth Elementalist, I got access to Adamantite Body, Gaze of the Medusa, Malavon's Fury, without getting Alteration or Invocation specialization in the feats, and there is no indication of this in the description of the kit or the spell.
3. Elemental Princes can be summoned successfully while getting the message that "The Elemental Prince does not answer your call". I know I have reported Elemental Princes not being summoned (at least Earth one), but this time I could, and I got that message as well. [Fixed]
4. Sunnis and other Earth Elemental should probably be immune to Spike Stones. [Fixed, elementals now immune to their own spells]
5. Fire elementals can be affected by Shroud of Flames, directly or indirectly. Maybe they should be directly immune to it but that's a minor technical detail, as they are not affected damage-wise. I noticed this while testing elemental princes [Fixed, elementals now immune to their own spells]
6. Creating wizards in ToB seems to only allow you to select spells up to level 4. It might make it quite difficult to start the game, depending on difficulty or mods. In general it's not very consistent whether when creating a spellcasting class you can select spells appropriate for your base ToB level or not...
7. Ben-Hadar (Good Water Elemental Prince) lacks the usual "Who calls..." line when summoned.
8. Ben-Hadar can become hostile if damaged by the player (or even by itself, if my eyes don't deceive me). In EE normally summons do not do that anymore. I imagine the evil counterpart will do the same, since it's identical.
9. Water Elementals should probably be immune to Smashing Wave (they can hurt each other with it) [Fixed, elementals now immune to their own spells]
10. Force Mages are supposedly unable to learn Elemental-based spells, however, they can learn Vitriolic Sphere in chargen
11. Force Mages bonus to Magic Damage does not work, they only get resistance to it. Tangential suggestion: energy immunity for magic damage? Maybe overpowered though. Force mages miss out on various HLA spells and such, so maybe it's not that bad.
12. Wildstrike does not conform to the Spell Name + Line Break + School of Magic + Empty Line schema. Additionally it's added to innate abilities instead of normal spells, and it has no icon.
13. Wildstrike should probably not say that the duration is 2 turns outright, since it's dependent on saving throws. Perhaps it should say "Special". The duration is explained in the description below regardless.
14. Wildstrike is not cast when attempted, therefore no effect is seen and nothing can be targeted.

Whenever you get around to any of these bugs, feel free to tell me which were not reproducible, if any, and I will do further testing. Cheers.

Edited April 15 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

Re-tested Barbarians a little bit:

• Further investigation on a bug: the non-improved Barbarian feats that add damage to attacks only fail if you don't have Tireless Rage and Great Rage as feats. There's no documentation for this. Additionally the feats that improve the aforementioned feats to do more damage, don't improve them and in fact they stop working after. (Will correct the previous bug report regardless) [Fixed]
• Supernatural Fury doesn't seem to work. Magic resistance is unchanged, and Save vs. Spell doesn't work either (I think).

 

Edited April 15 by RoyalProtector

[DavidW]

Just to say again that I'm super-grateful for this list.

[RoyalProtector]

5 hours ago, DavidW said:

Just to say again that I'm super-grateful for this list.

No worries! And I'm grateful for this mod, it addresses many things that bug me about vanilla behavior. I'll do what I can to help make it stable.

Edited January 18 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

Took another look at paladins and found more possible issues:

1. Turn Undead for Paladins seems to be equal to their level, as opposed to two levels below theirs, as per their description
2. Summon Deva for paladins can be picked more than once (unlimited times). I'm only mentioning this since so far the "Quest" and level 10 spells in this mod seem to be pickable and castable only once per day. Don't know if it's an exception
3. Symbol of Fear by summoned Pit Fiends never trigger when close to anyone in the party. Their version of the spell should probably retain the vanilla behavior of triggering in the presence of anything, since they can be hostile to anything.
4. Similarly to Undead Hunter's Smite Evil, Cavalier's Smite Evil does not really cause "double damage" to dragons and extraplanar evil creatures (like demons), it causes a second tick of damage of around 20-26 damage. The main one inflicts about 40-65 dmg [Fixed in Beta 11]

Edited May 7 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

Re-tested Druids:

1. Correction on a report about Elemental Shapeshifting: I didn't realize Druids got "lesser" elemental shapeshifting by default. The "greater" versions are added separately, as you would expect. Will correct previous bug reports on this, as they applied to the lesser versions when I thought they did to the greater ones. Apologies.
2. So here are the actual bugs of greater shapes that I could see:
   • - The Water Elemental Shape is invisible to the player (the lesser is visible)
   • - Shifting between Greater Elemental Shapes to another greater elemental shape prevents you from moving (CTRL + J unsticks your character and you can move again)
   • - Like the lesser versions, Fire and Air elementals lack an icon for their weapon
   • Earth Elemental Shapes (both) force a save vs. Petrification instead of Breath (as per the description)
   • - The rest seems fine (AC, Stats, secondary effects of attacks, AR...)
   • Apparently shifting to Fire Elemental and then shifting to another one makes your character keep the Fire Aura from the former
   • I don't know how to reproduce this, but I've seen it a few times: when testing the greater elemental shapes I do sometimes find that I have two spells to revert to natural form. It's not game breaking but it's there.
3. And here's a seriously weird bug. If you're shapeshifted (tested with greater elemental shapes), and if you rest as a druid while holding a quarterstaff, your character's avatar will shift into a male monk's (my character was female with the druid appropriate avatar, of course...)
4. Winter Wolf Breath does damage but there is no special effect for the spell being cast. Additionally it is not a "cone of cold" but a single target cold effect. [Fixed]

Some thoughts on druids and shapeshifting for future releases:

1. This is something I would really like to see: I think all the druids should get as a high level feat (or not necessarily a feat) the ability to cast spells while shapeshifted. Even wizards can do that with Shapechange, and I don't see why only Shapeshifters should be able to do so. The druids are, regardless, masters at shifting shapes. Additionally, this would improve the usability of the shapes, since, in many cases, they might be better off staying in various shapes for the sake of defenses, melee proficiencies, etc, even at higher levels without having to rely on a fighter/druid multiclass.
2. Perhaps make at least the superior elemental shapeshifting get immunity to weapons to some extent, like great elementals would (seems rather odd that they can be hit by +1). I'm not sure this really breaks balance that much considering when you get these...?
3. It would be nice if the description of druids or the description of the shapeshifting spells went into some details as to stats or special characteristics of the shapes. Not a big deal.
4. It would be really cool if the elemental shapes from druids also got some abilities found in normal elementals (Smashing Wave, Earthquake, Spike Stones), at least with the improved elemental shapes.
5. It would be very cool too if there was a feat that improved the basic shapes too so they remain useful for longer. Some ideas that occur to me:
   1. Bear shapes can use a rage ability (much like Wilson's, which is essentially a "poor man's" version of the Berserker enrage ability.
   2. Spiders get poison capabilities (or perhaps teleporting, like phase spiders).
   3. Wyverns get a strength increase.
   4. Boring beetle's get physical damage resistance due to the hard exoskeleton, maybe some more AC too, perhaps a noxious cloud ability.
   5. Wolves move faster and can howl for a fear effect, maybe minor party combat bonus.
6. 12 hitpoints of healing once per hour when shifting to a greater elemental shape seems excessively weak. Perhaps consider increasing that to something more substantial like 25-40.
7. I think shapeshifting should be instant and not interruptible (greater elemental shapes). It's rather annoying to have this happen when you're trying to retaliate in melee by shifting into the shape.

Will update previous bug reports to reflect this.

Edited April 15 by RoyalProtector

[DavidW]

Just briefly on one bit of this:

8 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

It would be nice if the description of druids or the description of the shapeshifting spells went into some details as to stats or special characteristics of the shapes. Not a big deal.

It should all be documented - look at shapechange_desc.html, polymorph_desc.html and druid_ss_desc.html.

[RoyalProtector]

On 1/19/2024 at 5:11 PM, DavidW said:

It should all be documented - look at shapechange_desc.html, polymorph_desc.html and druid_ss_desc.html.

Absolutely, though I was specifically referring to documentation in game.

Edited January 21 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

Crossed out bug related to Shapechange, since it has been fixed. I'll leave it just for reference anyway.

[RoyalProtector]

All the reports from this point on are tested in Beta 5

OK, since the Bloodline sorcerers not being able to level up were fixed, I took another look at them (and other stuff that I tested while I was at it):

1. Rimefrost Sorcerers can learn Shroud of Flame (I think the spell is not tagged as Fire...), even though Flame spells should be off limits. Maybe they shouldn't get Comet or Dragon Breath? the latter is pure fire damage, so, perhaps...?
2. Weird text between brackets seen in summary of class when leveling up Celestial Sorcerer "{K=44,C=19} (also present in others such as Gravetouched)
3. Summon Shadow is available to Celestial Bloodline, despite being also considered Necromancy (but I don't know what the policy is if it's considered from other schools too)
4. Rune of Immunity durations seem to be wrong. Immunities to protection removal spells lasts 24 seconds, and immunity to schools of magic only last 22 seconds. The duration stated in the description is 10 rounds
5. Deepearth sorcerers should probably not be able to get Thunderstorm, Immunity to Electricity (maybe?), or Scion of Storms, because they shouldn't be able to get spells of air or electricity. Maybe Energy Blades too, since it's electrical projectiles...
6. Sorcerers can get duplicated sequencers and contingencies in their spellbooks if they pick them as they level up and take them as feats (I'm guessing it might happen with Find Familiar too...). Limitation or bug?
7. Efreeti Sorcerer description has a double period at the end.
8. Efreeti Sorcerers can get Blood to Ice despite the kit stating they can't get ice spells
9. Efreeti sorcerer can get Aegis of Rime despite not being able to use ice spells
10. Efreeti sorcerers start out with a blueish color scheme for their clothes, I was expecting red or orange for fire... mentioning it just in case.
11. Melf's Minute Meteors, Fireshields, Lower Resistance, Death Fog, and Tensers Transformation separate the two school of magic they belong to by a comma with no space in between. Normally, there's a whitespace after the comma, and other spells do show that (such as Wraithform).
12. Melf's Meteors are also available to Fey Sorcerers despite belonging to invocation too (although, same question applies, I don't know how mixed magic school spells are handled). This is present in other spells with mixed schools... if this is not a problem, I'll remove these anyway.
13. Seven Eyes Issues:
    • - Eye of the mind: Supposedly you can spend it as Charm Person, but what you actually receive is Charm Animal (seems to behave like the Ranger charm animal ability, though with a different icon)
    • - It gives you Lay on Hands, with Cure Light Wounds description
    • - It gives you Dispel Magic, with Remove Magic description (functions as the former)
    • - It gives you Spiritual Hammer
    • - It gives you Druid Polymorph Abilities
    • - None of the spells that the spell claims to give you are given.
14. Fiendish Sorcerers can summon Planetars -- despite technically only able to summon fiends.
15. Pierce Shield last paragraph is separated by more than one empty line (might have reported it before, will delete if that's the case)
16. Blood to Ice HLA spell seems to paralyze the victim for far more than the 1 round the description states (several rounds, it seems). Although frankly I'd rather have the version as it is, otherwise it could be underwhelming otherwise, being a single target spell (but perhaps toning down the paralysis duration would be wise).
17. Stormborn Sorcerer has access to Malavon spell HLA despite being an acid spell

I'll scan the rest of issues and see if they were handled by beta 5 too (such as poisons) and cross them out later. Cheers.

Edited April 5 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

... And since poison issues that were preventing tests are solved, here's the issues found:

1. Assassination states that requirements are high level Thief{K=0, C=4}. Avoid Danger (both), Avoid Death, Crippling Strike, have a similar issue. (I might have missed others... regardless I don't think this problem was present in Beta 3) [Fixed, pending to check]
2. Deathkiss does not apply the 1 poison damage for 24 seconds when save is failed for targets above 60 hitpoints. Additionally, it feels like the feats that improve the saving throw difficulty are not applying to this, but I might be mistaken. Regular (wyvern) poison applies much more consistently
3. Nerve Venom seems to prevent resting for a while when it's active on a target in the party (seems to fade after a bit...). The game seems to act like it's in combat since armor cannot be removed
4. Nerve Venom should not allow a saving throw, but it actually does.
5. Nerve Venom does 6 poison damage without saving throw allowed, despite the description stating that "it does not otherwise damage the victim"
6. Nerve Venom seems to apply an absurdly high AC modifier bonus against Crushing to the victim... unless it's some sort of UI bug.
7. Carrion Crawler Ichor paralysis seems to not work sometimes a while after applying it once (after more than 1 round). Not sure why, but it feels like it can't be applied if the target is already paralyzed by it (and thus extending it). If that's the case the description should probably clarify this

Also, I would mention that, unless I'm missing something, Deathkiss is a direct upgrade to Wyvern's poison, at least as far as the description goes. Much like the normal poison, it should cause 24 poison damage over time at max level +6 immediate damage... but it can also kill outright targets below 60 hitpoints. If that's the case, there's no reason to use Wyvern's poison after getting it. Maybe the highest damage output potential should be left to Wyvern Poison, and Deathkiss should be toned down (perhaps just the instant damage should be kept?) -- the upside being of course making weapons capable of slaying in the specified circumstances.

Edited April 5 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

Decided to test Dirty Fighting, since I never bothered to test it:

1. Slow effect of Dirty Fighting doesn't have a string saying Slowed or some such on affected characters.
2. I think Dirty Fighting should tell the user that targets can only be affected once per 2 rounds.
3. Also, it doesn't affect character that are female, apparently... I checked it out in NI, and it looks like genders of female, niether and 255 are protected. Don't know this is some sort of hack or what... Regardless, I don't seem to be able to throw sand in Jaheira's eyes, no matter how much I critically hit her.
4. EDIT: It's possible to get a blind portrait icon without being blinded, because the random chance for displaying the portrait icon is 50, but blindness as such is 49 (including the display string effect). I experienced this in the testing. Since 50 is also within the chances for slow, I got essentially Slow on the target as well as that icon. Guess I got very lucky.

[All fixed]

Edited March 8 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

Crossed out some bugs fixed by Beta 8. Guess I'll continue adding bugs in new things in Beta 8, if there are any.

Edited March 8 by RoyalProtector

[RoyalProtector]

OK, so thanks to the hotfixes, I was able to test out the new things added in this version:

1. Blackguards description states that they learn Absorb Health once per day, then add another use at level 5 and 4 levels thereafter. My level 16 blackguard has only one use (ToB).
2. Turn Undead level, much like in the case of paladins, is still not 2 levels below their actual level, as per the description, but their actual level
3. Disciple of Asmodeus description should start capitalized after "<NAME_OF_THE_KIT>: "; the description refers to Asmodeus as a she after a period (should be capitalized): "she is ruthless in her pursuits..."... Or maybe I'm misreading it, and you're talking about the PC. Also, isn't "any who get in her way" incorrect grammatically? Shouldn't it be "any who gets in her way". I'm not an expert in English grammar nor am I a native speaker, but I thought I'd mention it.
4. Disciple of Asmodeus/Thrall of Orcus   Find Familiar spell mentions the statistics of the weakest version of the familiar, present in BGEE. Should account for the game we're playing, as per the documentation of the Find Familiar spell in each game.
5. Disciple of Asmodeus/Thrall of Orcus can cast spells, despite the description stating they can't EDIT: Correction, the spell casting button is disabled as expected, but they know spells and can choose to memorize them normally as blackguards.
6. Thrall of Orcus description states they can only be Lawful Evil, but Orcus is Chaotic Evil, I assume it was a copy-paste error.  [Fixed]
7. Every time I click on the Record (R) button while in the game, the game reacts as if I right-clicked my character, prompting them to say one of their selection lines.
8. After taking Concentrated Venom with my green dragon disciple, my poison resistance stayed at 100. Unless there's a technicality I'm not aware of, it should probably be saying 110? [Concentrated venom is deprecated now]
9. Empty line for a kit inside the Fighter class. I assume this is where Barbarian would be if I had not installed the Barbarian as a class component. (Barbarian works as expected, barring previously-reported bugs) [Fixed in Beta 9]

Other thoughts:

1. I might have said it before, but I'd like to note that in the current state of the mod, it's very  easy to "break" saving throws. At level 16, (CHA 18, nothing else that adds saves above 10) my blackguard has saves in the negative without any aid of items.
Specifically:

Death-> -3 (-5)
Wand-> 0 (-4)
Polymorph-> -2 (-5)
Breath Weapon-> -2 (-4)
Spell-> 1 (-4)

Perhaps saving throws should depend on your stats a bit more strongly (i.e. will suck a lot if you don't spend stat points wisely).  [Fixed]

2. Black Dragon breath works now, though I'm still not too convinced about the animation. If it was something like a greenish cone of cold, it would be more acceptable visually. But it's a relatively minor thing. There is an artifact in BG2EE (reward for Dorn's quest) that has an acid breath ability, which is essentially a green-colored red dragon breath explosion. Green Dragon breath looks nice though.

3. The concern that Concentrated Venom is underpowered makes sense because as far as I know the feat only affects one spell, right? Cloudkill. At best, it makes you deal 2 more points of damage. For green dragon disciples it could be worth it because of their breath attacks. The solution is either more poison spells, or higher damage bonus (maybe 40% instead -- which, could make spells from other mods overpowered, but no one can really anticipate this, I think). Might be slightly more useful for Cleric/Mages, since clerics have access to a few poison spells. [Deprecated for now as of Beta 9]

4. Maybe later a blackguard of a yugoloth could be added, to complete the triad of evil?

Cheers!

WeiDU.log

Edited April 29 by RoyalProtector
added weidu

[Trouveur80]

7 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

Other thoughts:

 

1. I might have said it before, but I'd like to note that in the current state of the mod, it's very  easy to "break" saving throws. At level 16, (CHA 18, nothing else that adds saves above 10) my blackguard has saves in the negative without any aid of items.
Specifically:

Death-> -3 (-5)
Wand-> 0 (-4)
Polymorph-> -2 (-5)
Breath Weapon-> -2 (-4)
Spell-> 1 (-4)

Perhaps saving throws should depend on your stats a bit more strongly (i.e. will suck a lot if you don't spend stat points wisely).

WeiDU.log 5.76 kB · 0 downloads

I also noticed this in my BGEE run. Saving throws bonus from stats are very powerful.

Maybe bonus to saving throws from stats should be halved ? That's way Force of personality would not be so powerful. I took it with my skald with 3 wisdom and 19 charisma at level 2, and went from -4 to +5 to spells ST, a difference of 9 points ! With malus and bonus halved, it would have been from -2 to +2, so still a significative gain, but not something so gamebreaking for a level 2 feat.

Also, I choose custom bonus stats with 19 giving 5, 20 giving 6, but in BGEE it really feels too strong. the D&D3 alternate bonus stats with 20 giving 5, 22 giving 6, seems more balanced {between subraces and tomes it's easy to have 19 or 20 in some stats).