kreso

@Gwendolyne

I've already made the changes, but I didn't want to upload anything since I wanted to discuss some stuff (hence why I posted the proposed change-log).

Also, this "final" version would include Mike's and Grammarsalad's work with ADD_SPELL as posted here.

I'd include some of Bartimaeus' fixes from SRR (hopefully he's ok with it @Bartimaeus?); I haven't yet checked all of it.

@Ulb, @Bartimaeus

If you have better suggestions for petrification handling, say. In vanilla, petrified PCs would often crash for no reason, and any damage would crash the statue.

Domination will end the game, yes, but that's hardly a solution. What if you're not soloing and don't have means to cure petrification? Why would someone be dominated after being stoned?

Ice Storm

- heh. everybody loves this spell it seems. I agree, making some spells work in a certain way should be more consistent....how about I make it a 1-round spell, as in PnP? 3d6 crusing + 2d6 cold, removing the movement speed malus alltogether? Szopped by deflection as a 4th level spell.

Daring tought - leave all clouds deflected, but make them have less "ticks"? AI usually tries to run away from such spells, but there are times it's fairly impossible for them to do so.

@Ulb

Greater Heroism is a 6th level mage spell in PnP. Browsing through spells, most of the other options are either bad, some could work but only on EE so I opted for this. There's also the issue of spell icon. For this I could use something already in game.

 

2 new components

1) dispellable potions - makes potions dispellable again. For hardcore players.

2) display portrait icons - gives icons where applicable. This is fairly conservative however - i.e. Blackrazor will display Pro Fear icon, but not Mind Shield icon (only if item gives total immunity it will have an icon displayed).

 

Both of these components are done via patching code so they can be installed any time (even after SCS).

Can these be implemented as .ini options? They seem like minor tweaks to existing components.

Probably. I've never tried doing it, however.

 

"Lastly, cloud-based spells like cloudkill and stationary AoE like Web will no longer deplete deflection charges or be blocked by them."

This is the right call I think.

 

Re: Waves of Fatigue: honestly I think you should forget about actually causing fatigue and just simulate the effects in a more controlled way:

- x-point penalty to Luck (-2?)

- set STR and CON to y (7?)

- maybe even add Slow on top of that

 

(This should be noticeably better than Slow, right? something like Slow+. Something like: Waves of Fatigue is to Slow as Improved Haste is to Haste.)

 

Well, there is an "Improved Slow" in PnP

. Thing is, this spell is rather unique now with it's stacking mechanic. Negative Luck is used on Malison already. Lowering STR and CON I just don't like, especially with vanilla strmod.2da files since even -1 penalty can be huge (i.e. from 19 to 18 is rather drastic for strenght).

(e): ok, but for real, Waves of Fatigue was already really short (though it does alternate between being a minor debuff and being crippling depending on constitution / how recently you've rested, which obviously makes it difficult to balance), I don't see that much reason to disable stationary AoE spells from being deflected (especially because the player is unlikely to deliberately have a Spell Deflection-ed character walk into such stationary AoE spells and waste SD charges...while the AI will now be highly vulnerable to spells such as Ice Storm if it isn't deflected), and Flesh to Stone...well, actually, I'm not sure about this one. FtS does have a pretty severe save penalty for its effect and spell slot, so maybe that's the right call, but it being so slow to take effect feels weird.

Ice Storm is still deflected . It's only 3 rounds, so I let it be.

But no worries, anything not 5th level or above will likely be thwarted by Globes. My main worries are Acid Fog and Cloudkill. There are very few mages immune to posion. And Acid isn't a common resistance either. But both of these spells are so canonical that I cannot envision ever changing them.

You're suggesting that FtS should kill instantly when petrification takes effect? (after 3 rounds, iirc)

Proposed change-log:

Greater Heroism: meh. Pretty typical buff.

 

How about Spell Evasion - like the IWD thief ability? Allow a mage to grant it to anybody. Would be pretty handy for a warrior or mage to have that. Something like "Enhanced Cat's Grace"

- set DEX to 20

- bonus to Breath saves (?)

- spell evasion

 

Would be EE-only, but given this is pure bonus, who cares?

I won't code EE exclusives. Yet.

I really like the Free Action/Chaotic Commands change (after all, stun is a mental status, not a movement status!). Mind Blank could probably do the same if it doesn't already. No real opinion on Stone to Flesh - Tenser's Transformation is kind of a similar spell, and it's already at 6th level...but obviously, it more targets the mage themselves than other characters. So I'm not sure.

I can't change the stun mechanic w/o messing up AI mods. If I could, I would. Since Stun in BG2 is hugely more powerful than it should be, but alas...

+ 4 AC/Thac0, 20 HP and Fear immunity isn't enough to warrant a 6th level slot? Dual - classes would enjoy this immensly, even a mage built around physical combat/shapechanges. Mage/thief multis are also a contender. And it would likely put a mage above PW treshold.

"Lastly, cloud-based spells like cloudkill and stationary AoE like Web will no longer deplete deflection charges or be blocked by them."

"Flesh to Stone will kill the target after 5 rounds have passed if not cured"

"Waves of Fatigue debuff duration shortened to 3 rounds"

 

but why

Stacked Aoe is too effective at destroying Deflections.I could limit it to "clouds" only however...

Fts kills since you could get "stuck" if you get petrified and there is nobody to either save you or kill you. Same as Imprisonment, if you don't cast Freedom the imprisoned character will die.

It's not a "permanent" death, you'll just see the body appear.

Waves - 5 rounds is too much. The spell makes your mages pretty much use their offensive spells at full possible power, likely doubling their damage output. 18 seconds is enough. Just try this spell (trigger x3 Waves) under Alacrity in Yaga-Shura battle, and you'll see why this needs nerfing.

Sure you can get the same effect via Wish, but that's kinda random - and a 9th level slot.

Proposed change-log:

- Insects (all 3 spells ) make target berserk instead of panicked (1 round, save vs death to avoid) - I tought this was implemented....

- Ice Storm (both mage and druid versions) now slow movement by 20%, not 50. Spell was OP before.

- Blade Barrier and Globe of Blades now can work together

- Globe of Blades does 2d8 slashing damage per round, no save

- Haste now only gives +4 to movement speed (was +6 before)

- Haste fatigue had a spell power of 3, which would make people under Globes/Deflection etc.immune to it. Now it's set to 0.

- Protection from Missiles is now caster-only.

- Waves of Fatigue debuff duration shortened to 3 rounds

- Flesh to Stone will kill the target after 5 rounds have passed if not cured

- Imp.Haste is now +4 to movement speed

- Prismatic Sphere is nerfed, it can no longer autokill people with poison damage, nor it does any damage at all. It inflicts various debuffs instead. (Maze, confusion, blindness, I'll probably add a few more like stupor, stun etc.) All debuffs will last for 1 round. Spell power of all effects is set to 0, to avoid depleting deflection charges. It's now a sort of debuff fireshield.

- Mind Blank now covers all Stun sources, no longer stops Hold stuff nor does it prevent divinations from working. It still keeps it's PW immunity.

- Spell Trap lasts for 5 turns

Stuff done via code (EE only)

I can't post screenshots here. Bugger. But here. First screen shows how immunty to damage type or debuff should work. Second one shows what happens in SR.

This only happens if you install AoE deflection tweak. It "deletes" the spell name, so you get "Unaffected by effects from" message.

This is now changed, and the spell name gets correctly displayed. Not all is perfect however. Now casting a fireball in a group of hobgoblins will display;

x:Fireball;hobgoblin for each hobgoblin hit. It's not perfect, but imo much better.

Also on EE with Deflection, newly created subspells would still display damage animation even if the target was immune to damage type dealt. While EE 2.5 apperantly fixed this so spellcasting isn't interrupted, I've made it work as intended in SR.

Lastly, cloud-based spells like cloudkill and stationary AoE like Web will no longer deplete deflection charges or be blocked by them.

Yes, you read it correctly.

Anyhow; a lot of bugfixing, desc updating and tweaking in progress. Should be ready soon.

Need some suggestion for 6th level Stone to Flesh spell. This is now worthless (it was always, tbh) given you can remove petrification with lower levels spells that do even more than that.

AI won't use this spell.

Any ideas? It shouldn't be offensive damage, nor disabling. My fisrt idea was Greater Heroism (Fear immunity, THAC0 +4, +4 saves, extra HP equal to caster level; max 20). Good enough for a 6th level slot? Can be cast on anybody.

One notable tweak (I'll update IR as well due to this, with a couple extra install options) in SR is that Free Action and Chaotic commands spells no longer overlap. PReviously they both protected vs Stun, Hold, Paralyze etc.

Now they're seperate. CC prevents stun, confusion, domination, psi attacks etc. It no longer prevents Hold, Paralyze and similar.

FA no longer stops stun.

CC also has shorten duration (5 turns), but will prevent all stun sources while active (previously it stopped only PW:Stun).

"if you have problems and aren't running 2.5, I don't want to hear about them."

...k.

 

- on SR install (I've only browsed the for defensive spells, haven't played) probably all mages of any level above 7 can get Pro Missiles as a def,option (it's outright missile immunity)

Noted, will consider. It's always a bit of a balancing act - third level is a valuable offensive-spell level too.

 

Given this is vastly used even in BG1, I'd say mages in BG2 can dedicate a spell slot for this.

Tnx for the release, I can't wait to see how it works.

On a sidenote, few questions:

- I haven't updated EEs to 2.5 version (some pathfinding issues are a big turn-down for me), the "initialize" component reports few parse errors (checkspellstate TURNINGTOSTONE/PRIORITY BREACH not found in splstate.ids), but other components install fine. Should I update to 2.5 or can I play with this? Readme explicitly says that 2.5 is needed

- Refinements compat seems to be gone? Any particular reason?

- on SR install (I've only browsed the code for defensive spells, haven't played) probably all mages of any level above 7 can get Pro Missiles as a def,option (it's outright missile immunity)

Other than that, gratz, by first glance this seems an awesome improvement.

1) Now I can take down a lich pretty quickly at high levels, for instance, by Spellstrike + Breach + Sarevok (perhaps +1 spell if I need to clear out a Spell Shield). The extra chunk of action economy required to drop the lich's (probable) II or Shadow Door makes a material difference.

Breach doesn't affect Liches in SR, you'd need Pierce Shield for that. Also, True seeing in SR only allows the mage who cast it to debuff imp.invisible mages. It also doesn't dispel II (so you keep +4 AC/saves/untargetability to all beside True Seeing caster).

From my experience, it takes a while to kill a Lich in this setup unless you're under Alacrity+Vecna robe.

They start virtually invulnerable, open with Time Stop (or two), summon a Planetar so your mage can't do anything for a round apart cast PfMW.

Of course, this may depend on install options (HLAs in SoA, prebuff options etc.). I play with full prebuff + HLAs for everyone who can use them; and Liches ended more of my gaming runs than pretty much everything else combined.

Really? Even a very high power? (9?)

yes. It changes the very fundamentals of this spell. Try using this tweak on Ascesion finale if you don't believe me.

Hmm... why not just turn Spell Trap into a "Super GOI" that blocks all spells up to 9th level? It would naturally block AoE effects, as GOI already does. Would that be functionally any different from the current [99 levels of Deflection + NWN-style AoE blocking]? (Aside from the possibility of having 99 levels of protection burned through by AoE spells...)

You'd probably end up with the same thing - pretty much total magic invulnerability for as long the spell is in effect.

But....

If you don't use the opcodes used by GOI (immunity to spell level), you might have something interesting here to think about.

The thing is:

new EE patch finally fixed the long-standing spell shield opcode bug. (I might be wrong here, I don't have the latest patch but running through change-log I think it's fixed)

"Old" spell shield used a special opcode which was bugged in several ways; but what it was supposed to do was to block one single attack coded as "magical" (Secret Word, Spellstrike etc.) and then remove itself.

Part of the buginess was in the opcode itself, while the other part was in the fact that some attacks were wrongly coded as "magical" like some Dragon breath attacks and similar which Spell shield would protect you from.

I did test the opcode vs "offensive" type attacks few years ago, seemed to work as it should. Apart the sporadic bug which would prevent the protection from ever getting depleted, which made the opcode non-usable and made SR and SCS use a custom secondary type + splitting spell removals into 2 different spells.

Now, if this is all fixed----------------------------------------

Just an example of what could be done:

- Spell Trap prevents x ammount of "offensive damage" type spells

- Chaotic commands prevents x ammount of "disabling"

- you name it...,maybe one could append the table with extra attack types as well for a full-blown gameplay overhaul....

What's great about it is that it would work automatically, even with mod-added spells, for as long as they have their secondary type correctly set.

Imagine a system where AI doesn't depend on detecting your protections like Chaotic Commands, but rather uses the spells Chaotic Commands is meant to stop to remove it from you. You could probably make it scale with levels (level 10; 2 disabling attacks blocked, level 15; 3 attacks etc. - similar to stoneskin blocking physical attacks). Hell, Mind Flayers would now be worth those 9k xp you get for killing them.

How AI would play along with this; I can't say. It would be far less reliant on Dispel/Breach, that's for sure.

I'd definitely avoid giving Dispel magic a power level, in any case. This would alter far more than it looks like at the first glance.

I don't know if it's normal that you can't protect yourself fro your own spells, but I'm sure it can't be changed .

Archons is level 7 priest spell, it has very short duration (iirc 1 turn) and a splendid casting time of 1. It's supposed to be used to "dodge" incoming spells in the middle of a battle rather than a long buff.

Deflections are kind of the opposite. GSD should probably absorb more, in any case.

Earthquake, Chain Lighting and probably some other spells are a bit more complicated tto tweak iirc (they already cast subspells).

DB/Comet I couldn't get to work properly last time I tried. I'd prefer if Deflection stopped them, tbh.

Apparently, this problem only occurs with Edwin on my game, with Jan jansen and Anomen (shield of the Archons) it is working correctly. what is going on lol

 

For testing, I just cast spell deflection/spell trap/shield of the Archons on myself and I cast an damage spell with AoE on me .

Use 2 mages, casting spells on each other. It's possible Delfection won't stop AoE spell cast from self.

 

 

The actual Turning effect is meaningless; SCS isn't dumb enough to cast spells at it and neither is any sensible player. Its advantage over the Trap opcode is that it can't be used for infinite-spell exploits.

 

This is exactly what will happen with Turning opcode. The only way to avoid it would be for AI to check for Turning, and if active, don't cast *anything* at it, apart spell protection removals. Better yet, don't cast anything remotely near to it.

In effect, one Turning active, whole party protected from AoE spells.

Or, AI doesn't detect it, kills itself with own spells.

Either way, no go.

You cannot differentiate Turning/Trap opcodes so it doesn't "block" AoE with NWN deflection. They're hardcoded to block single target spells, which is what NWN turns aoe spells into. I hope it's clear enough....

If you wanna avoid "stackability" of Deflection type spells, it's fairly straightforward with EEs anyhow - "remove effects from resource" does it iirc.

That's a good idea. Is the NWN Deflection code portable (or close to it)? Seems like Camdawg is willing to make changes to IWDification at the moment. We should also do this for FnP/B_Spells. I'll take a look at it.

 

@Jarno Spell Turning = Greater Spell Deflection. Spell Trap and Shield of the Archons work the same way, they block 99 spell levels. (Not sure I like that... might be worth Spell Trap at keast, to use a difference opcode (Turning probably). Then it could stack with Deflections.

NWN code is fairly straightforward to use iirc.

Spell Turning opcode + NWN deflection result in horrible, horrible mess. Don't use it. Example - you cast Insects on the ground, but it spreads to a mage protected by Turning. With NWN deflection, they'll turn back on druid who cast it. AI (SCS or not) isn't able to cope with that change, they'll end up killing themselves with their own AoE spells.

As I said I'm specifically interested in how SR does it. Is there an array defined somewhere, does it include spells added by orher mods, etc. I've seen Demi talk a lot about what is Breach-able, but I don't know if someone around here is familiar with the code itself. But whatever.

 

Poking around this issue, and glancing at the "AoE Deflection" code, it occurs to me that there's an install order problem. At least with IWDification, which is supposed to be installed after SR. Seems like:

1) IWDification should be installed after the SR main component, and AoE Deflection should be installed after IWDification (easy enough, though I generally try to avoid splitting mods if possible); and 2)

2) SR's AoE Deflection code should account for IWDification spells (I'm not sure it does - it should be using IDS names, but at a glance I didn't see that happening.)

There isn't an array. From top of my head, with morning coffee and cigar in my hand - combat protections would be

Armor

Shield

Barkskin

Stoneskin

Druid's Stoneskin

PfMW

Prismatic Sphere

Moment of Prescience

Apsolute Immunity

I probably missed a few.

Specific protections would include Pro Fire/Cold type spells, Chaotic Commands, Pro Fear etc.

As per IWDification, I think such stuff (adding/changing spells) would best be handled on IWD side.

If "NWN deflection" component is detected, it could use Ardanis' code he wrote so that hostile AoE spells get handled differently.

That is, if you wanna make a mod X compatible with this particular SR component the cleanest solution is to do it on X's side, not SR.

I did try to do that in a megamod setup, but this is a task where you're shooting a moving target. And it can't be done in a satisfactory manner w/o renaming some spells and tweaking the scripts to account for that. Or you get this.

Dispel magic in SR works just as Remove magic, affecting only enemies. I think what DavidW wants to say that AI needs to be careful around dispeling ongoing debuffs affecting party like Malison, Insects, Slow etc. I vaguely remember some code piece in SCS based around how it's "embarrassing to dispel own debuffs".

For me, solo runs with wizard is too hard with scs installed when most high level Liches, Fiends, Dragons etc spam dispel magic. 1 time protection of dispelling screen is not enough. I think it could be tweaked to protect the caster at least 2 times or another spell can provide protection against dispel magic. Any thoughts?

Solo run wizard isn't an option with SR, I'm afraid. This is by intent. You could probably do it by endless Wish spam, provided you'rre zealous enough.

So how can a mage protect himself from dispel magic spam then? I like scs not only because of difficulty but also the chess battle between arcane casters. With SR there is little to no chess battle beause of how easily buffs can be stripped. If solo is not a thing with SR, then it is unfortunate.

He can't. You can use Spell Trigger/Contingency etc. if you like. But come demons with never-ending dispel spam, you're very likely going to die. Again, this is by intent.

Dispel Magic removes your combat protections in one cast. That include stoneskin, prot from elements, prot from energy, other skins, remove fear etc. You can't live if these are dispelled against a high spellcaster with summons helping him. How is this balanced? You can eat a Ruby ray but still live just fine because it dispels 1 protection. You have other defences if Greater Spell Deflection removed. Globe of Inv and Spell Deflection will be more than enough to continue fight. But if you eat remove magic you are practically dead.

Imo, it's far more balanced than a solo mage laying waste to dozens of high-leveled demons....

Things such as Deflections aren't affected by Dispel Magic and keep you safe even from area damage. So you can cast PfMW and keep your mage intact.

I don't have this issue in normal scs runs tbh. Because SI: Abjuration is good enough to counter dispel magic. With spell revisions, i am prone to be bodied by any caster who casts dispel magic. You can't play the chess game with them because they don't have to. All they need to is spam dispel magic. I feel like Spell trap, spell deflection, etc is useless with SR because what will they protect when your most essential buffs are gone?

The whole "chess" thing is way overrated. There's no chess battle is BG other than Durlag's tower. Enemies don't just spam dispels. Spell trap/deflections are in fact made to protect you even when your buffs are gone.

But you’re now giving a reason: triple-RM sequencers are overpowered in the SR ecosystem. If that was true in the vanilla game I’d have some time for it, but it looks from the discussion here that it arises in SR because SR removes SI:Abjuration. The whole point of SR is to rebalance the spell system; I’m not going to impose further changes on the SCS side.

 

SR significantly reduces the ability of solo spellcasters to protect against multiple Remove Magics. If that’s intentional, fine. If it’s not, SR should rethink its spell system. Since Demi and others have been complaining about SI for years, I assume they’re happy with the consequences of its removal, but in any case I work with the spell system I’m given.

 

In other words, when the AI casts it expecting it to be Chaos, it gets virtually nothing out of it, while the player can use two mages to cast it twice upon a group of enemies at the same time (or three times), and those enemies are basically completely disabled for five rounds.

Actually, it works quite good, provided one uses SCS. Chaos is used often, even in spell triggers, and enemies can have more than one memorized. AI will check for state "confused" before casting this spell (which won't return true), so it all works out; especially in higher levels. The spell maybe won't be utilized as good as a player would (same as any; but it's decent.

Planar Sphere; Yaga Shura, Gromnir etc. battles make AI utilize this spell very efficiently.

It will increase bad luck even with one casting, provided CON isn't godlike (17 and above iirc).

Same logic (use 2 mages to cast) can be said for several dozen spells - from magic missile to adhw. Chaos spell was pretty much just as effective in vanilla; in some cases even better.

P.s.

Negative casting speed is hugely detrimental for the ai. The player can somewhat account for it by kiting and positioning, but AI gets wasted by this.

A In other words, the first casting of this spell is nearly useless, but a second casting is overwhelmingly powerful.

This is how it is supposed to work due balancing issues. To get the most out of this spell, you need to spend at least two level 5

slots.

I think one casting is around +6/7 fatigue. It should be temporary.

Fatigue incrementation penalizes Luck (values are derived from a 2da file iirc). Also it drops THAC0.

In effect, casting a trigger of 3x Waves of Fatigue will make enemies miss every single attack apart critical hits (and even those will be at minimum) and will make them take full damage from any spell that hits them.

SR uses (at least did, the last I checked) mass patching of items to check and assign for immunites, protections etc. Example, you'll get no petrification protection on your items if you install IR after SR.

Damn, very huge drawback for this class O_o (even with kit revision imo)

The restriction doesn't exist with kit revisions, WS can use all items a fighter can (apart heavy armor). Just be sure to install KR after main IR component.

Also, unless something is changed in Bartimaeus' versions , SR should always go after IR.