subtledoctor

Actually it's that friendly spells bypass the Magic Resistance if the target so wants. Now of course the later is not actually scripted, but just set so in the spell itself.

I'm sorry, are you using the word "actually" to explain a made-up fact about a made-up power possessed by made-up creatures, in a game of make-believe with a thousand inconsistent versions and a thousand internal inconsistencies within each version?

So how does it work, exactly? You can control your own magic resistance? If you can lower it for friendly spells, can you lower it halfway, or to any point between between zero and your max value? Or is it just on/off? What is the actual mechanism for lowering it? Is us psionics? A mystical/magical power? How does WS, a fighter kit with no particular aptitude for magic, develop this very magical-seeming ability with such great control over it?

And, where is your citation to any published lore on *any* of this, that leads you to use the word "actually?"

I rather think it's illogical cheesy BS coded by Bioware in an inconsistent and annoying way.

As for liches, no I won't be rewriting any scripts. MR is very powerful and if you want to play with the 'hardcore MR' option, that power comes with trade-offs. Even for liches. That is the only variant of the mod that would have this effect.

I personally would never play with that option, of course. It would be a little crazy and severely alter game balance. But, it would be logically consistent and it's technically possible, so as long as I'm coding up a mod, why not offer it as an option? More options are better.

Here's a preview of the work I'm doing on an overhaul of the game's Magic Resistance system.

I'm just starting to work on a mod that will address MR in a comprehensive way. I'm hoping to eventually have a few options.

 

1) Hardcore MR: it works as in the base game, but with no exceptions. So healing spells, Sunfire, Comet, etc. can all be blocked by MR. Possibly even potions as well.

 

2) Arcane-only MR: in BG1 MR could block healing spells, but Bioware removed this in BG2, without any stated justification. I'll offer a justification for that - the divine magic overcomes the resistance - and then take it to it's logical end, letting all priest spells bypass MR.

 

3) Logical MR: some aspects of MR don't make sense. A Fireball is created by magic but the fire itself is still very hot in a non-magical way, so it should still burn someone with MR, right? Under this option, direct magical effects like Charms and Holds and Magic Missiles will be blocked by MR, but non-magical environmental effects, that just happen to be created by a magic spell, will bypass it.

 

4) No MR: this most aggressive option will completely eliminate MR from the game. Every instance of MR in the game will be replaced with some combination of improved saves and/or elemental resistances, and/or immunity to spells up to x level (like rakshasas). MR-granting items, kits, and spells available to the player will be similarly changed.

I spent ten minutes working on option #4, and it's going to be a bigger and more complicated undertaking than I originally thought. 1-3 should be a lot easier, so maybe I'll start with them.

 

I take it there's no way to just add thief skill points to the Bard when they level up?

Well even if you set it up so, the Bard won't be able to use the thieving skills. It's hardcoded to the classes ...

This is way off-topic here, but: the cleric/thief has the "thievery" ability as an innate ability rather than on the main UI bar. Can you give this to a bard and apply skills in, say, Open Locks, via CLAB effects?

I know for a fact that you can do this with the Set Trap ability... my mod has a ranger kit that can use traps. I wonder if you can't do the same thing with lock-picking...

('Cause, if so, get ready for the bard kits in my mod to get more interesting! I think the Loremaster, in particular, should be able to pick locks.)

 

Uh, it probably could be added as an optional component, right?

Yeah, but going around it is going to be some what work intensive. As you have to add custom .spl files on the go.

IF (if!) the items are already coded to use opcode 146 'Cast Spell' and custom spell files, rather than using item effects, then it would be dead simple to add an optional component at the end of the mod, which would ask "Do you want wand use to call down the Cowled Wizards on you, or not?" and just flip a switch in those custom spells to make it happen or not happen.

Load order is easy too: if SR is last, then it could alter the custom spells so that they would reflect how SR changes magic. If IR is last, you preload the SR-specific versions of the spell effects with SR, and have IR do a simple check and use those variants if SR is present. Either way, making future changes to SR would automatically be reflected in IR without a need to also update IR. Win!

Theoretically.

Whether we personally prefer it or not, fact is lots and lots of players will have conniptions if using wands calls down the CW. (Frankly I think *any* public magic use of *any* spurce should alert them, *including* any divine magic not used in a duly licensed and recognized temple.)

Easy enough to copy a spell, tag the copy as divine magic, and have the wand cast the divine variant at whatever level you want. (I usually have the wand of MM spit two missiles instead of one.)

As an aside, if anything, I think the Lightning Bolt wizard spell should mimic the Wand of Lightning - not the other way around.

I agree - the Cowled Wizards regulate magic use, do you think they won't care if some yokel is tearing up the town with a wand of fireballs??

If necessary, you could always duplicate the spell at install time, setting it as a priest spell, and make the wand cast that one instead. That wouldn't attract the CW.

That's what I always do in my game.

Found a bug: when installing on BGEE, the "Improved Specialist Mage Descriptions" component (DESIGNATED 30) changes the wrong entries in kitlist.2da.

It's a simple fix, just checking for the engine and bumping the SET_2DA_ENTRY row values by one. I'm attaching a fixed .tp2 that should work.

I don't know if Idobek is around anymore but maybe Mike1072 or Camdawg or theacefes, or someone else with some authority, can verify the fix and update the mod.

"Parry Magic" = Minor Spell Deflection, turned into an innate, but with the same filename and same entry in SPELL.IDS. Ditto for innate Spell Thrust. So, whenever scripts call for the AI to cast MSD or ST, they should use these innates.

For Bolt of Glory, if you don't want to install the rest of my mod/component, you could just pull sppr612.spl from the mod folder (it's in /sob/wizard/) and drop it into your override folder. I forget what game I copied it from though - you might need to manually fix the Name and Description fields to the right strrefs. Just check the strrefs for the vanilla spell in NI and set them to the same after doing the copy.

Could we have the magic protection removals for the Druid and Cleric in perspective? The spells like ruby ray and secret word. Or this is too much?

 

I dislike the fact that every time i want to cast a cleric/druid hostile spell at the opponent, i have to use my mage to bring down the spell protections first. Maybe thats just what mages are for but then, your whole party of divine casters is bottlenecked by the ability of a mage to remove deflections and spell traps with spell shields.

Well, divine casters just channel their deity's energies to work some miraculous effect or other; wizards study magic, make a science out of it. Makes sense to me that the intricate pattern of magic defenses and attacks should be something wizards specialize in. You can always use your divine magic on other enemies, or for party buffs etc.

On the other hand, I think divine magic that is powerful enough should be able to blast away wizards' protections. That's why the Wizard Class Tweaks component of my mod gives the 6th-level "Bolt of Glory" spell the ability to take down spell protections. It's working right now, feel free to give it a try.

(Druids, on the other hand... they do nature magic, they have no business knowing how to take down wizardly spell protections IMHO.)

Also, guys is the cast interrupt part of the game so much hardcoded noone can tackle with it?

TobEx has a component that gives you a d20 roll to avoid casting interruption, that takes into account a few things like how much damage you take, what level the spell is, luck, etc. It does not work with the EEs. The EE devs need to enable it and so far (how long has BGEE been out now? 3 years?) they have decided not to enable it. So you have two options: use TobEX on the old TOB engine, or go pester the EE devs to enable the feature in the EEs. I have a feature request thread for this over at forums.baldursgate.com. Go ahead and add your voice to it, hopefully they will realize that it's a good idea...

Also, autocastin contingencies and triggers every rest would help a lot so that you dont need to rest twice, fiddle with the spellbook etc.

My mod turns sequencers/triggers into renewable innate abilities, you might want to check it out. Also in the Wizard Class Tweaks, same component that changes Bolt of Glory that I mentioned above. It also makes Contingency an innate given at level 10 to trueclass mages only... eventually I'm going to change that around, make it an innate that you learn from a scroll. Chain Contingency, on the other hand... you shouldn't get that for free. If it's turned into an innate, I think it you should have to choose it as an HLA.

Overhauling MR is definitely planned because I hate how the mechanic works. But, a lot more goes into that then just reducing MR. As always with this game, changing one thing causes ripple effects in all sorts of other areas.

So, I will reduce or just eliminate every AI creature's MR. I haven't decided which. But, drow are *supposed* to be resistant to magic, right? So, I'll give them resistance to fire damage and magic damage and electricity damage, etc. Your fireball won't be *wasted* (I hate that)... but it won't be as useful against drow as it is against other foes. I'll also probably give them a bonus to save vs. spells, to make them better at resisting non-damage magical effects.

The flip side of that is, players shouldn't get high/any MR either. No more combining the Cloak of Balduran with the Holy Avenger with the Amulet of the Seldarine etc. to get 60-90% MR and walk unmolested through enemy spells. I'll have to compile a list of all those items and change them. There are enough interesting effects that I think it should be doable... some might make you outright immune to spells of x level, like a lich or rakshasa or a permanent Globe of Invulnerability... some might give you elemental resistance... some might give you a bonus to saving throws... it'll be some work but I'll figure out some good stuff eventually.

In my eyes Item Revisions and Spells revisions are probably the best mods out there, bar none. So, everything I make will always be compatible with them.

I would use NI for that instead of 'Keeper

Is Blood Rage from SR or from IWD? That spell is... crazy...

If it's SR, it needs a reduced casting time. If it's IWD, please ignore this.

Ah. Well, 50% casting failure and zero ways to cure it is a problem imho...

Well, it's for Silence, I just didn't know if it covered Deafness as well.

 

If it does, then it's a cheap, easy fix and I don't think Deafness/Holy Word is OP. Doesn't IR introduce potions of Vocalize?

Does Vocalize cure Deafness? Or Break Enchantment? Even Cure Light Wounds?

 

Seems like there should be some kind of magic that can cure Deafness...

Do we have any fix on the cacofiend/bone fiend/ death knight situation with the update?

Trading Cacofiend for Death Knight is intended behavior, so there too, there's no "fix" coming. Hopefully we can convince Demi to restore Cacofiend... or maybe I'll be able to restore it via a mod installed post-SR. But it wouldn't be a "fix" and I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. (RL is killing me atm, I won't be able to make such a mod until summertime at least.)

I'm not impatient - I'm currently working two parties through IWDEE, in which none of this spell battle stuff should be very important. Just wondering if a player who is playing BG2 with last week's SR beta, and who is impatient, could fashion a hotfix for themselves that would at least make the game more playable than it is with vanilla SS.

Would an effective workaround in the meantime be to copy an instance of Minor Spell Turning, renamed with Spell Shield's filename? Since SR turns all protections into Deflection, then Turning would be just another stacked protection, thus filling the role of Shield (until it's fixed)

?

1) The way opposition schools work makes them more annoying than flavor-enhancing. This would eliminate annoyance and add flavor.

2) I don't think it would increase Wizards' power that much. It wouldn't be much more powerful than playing a pure mage now. And probably still way less powerful than playing any other class dualled to mage. If specialists are made a bit closer to dual-class mages in power, and more interesting and unique, I'd consider that a win.

3) I don't want to bog down this SR thread with my crackpot ideas - except insofar as they relate to SR. So for the moment the main question is, how would a character with permanent Non-detection play with SRv4? Would it be game-breaking? Or okay?

By the way, I'm working on a mod to enhance the wizard kits. I want to give them enhanced abilities with spells on their school. For Illusionists I figured on adding Non-detection to all of their invisibility effects - they should be "better" at being invisible. But patching all invisibility spells across all variants of the game (and all mods) is too difficult, so I figure I'll just apply permanent, undispellable Non-detection at level one.

Question is, would that be a Bad Idea with SRv4? Would they be OP? Or would it be okay because they would be targetable if they do something like attacking or casting a spell?

I'm trying to parse those for the answer:

Just consider Non-detection like the old SI:Div and counter it like you did with that spell, with a spell removal (e.g. Spell Thrust, Secret Word, etc.).

 

The tricky thing is that ND makes you "immune" to True Seeing and similar stuff (e.g. if you are invisible there's simply no way they can detect you),

True Seeing caster can target with spells

Anyone can hit with AoE effcts (but Spell Deflection will block them)

Anyone can target with physical attacks.

It would be nice if there was a powerful "dispel all illusions so anyone can target" spell. Does Oracle do this?

Future plans:

- An overhaul of the Magic Resistance system. I dislike how chancy it is, so creatures will have their MR reduced or eliminated (depending on the creature) and in return they will get elemental resistances and saving throw bonuses. Items available to the player will get similar treatment, so players will not be able to amass high MR. I haven't yet figured out what to do about Wizard Slayers and Monks, feel free to suggest things in this thread.

- A major overhaul of the 8 wizard kits. Basically, there will be no opposition schools, and wizard can learn and cast any spell. But specialists will be able to cast some spells within their own school with greater effects. Conjurers can summon more creatures; Shadowmancers (née Illusionists) will have Non-detection built in to their invisibility spells; Enchanters will cause targets to take saving throw penalties; Pyromancers (née Invokers) will do more damage with energy-based spells. That sort of thing. I haven't worked it all out yet (what to do with Necromancers?) so if you have any thoughts or suggestions, again, please share.

- Revamping the tempo of casting magic spells. Instead of everyone being locked on a 6-second clock, I will add some variability. Some spells you might be able to cast every 4 seconds, others, every 8 seconds. The average will still be 6. Now items and abilities the reduce casting time will be more effective, actually allowing you to cast *more* by casting them faster. I haven't yet figured out what to do with Imptoved Alacrity yet, and more importantly, I haven't yet figured out of this is possible. We'll see.

Also, what i really would like to see: Reduce the magic resistances for magic resistant creatures like the drow and the fiends. The reason for this is balance. Pretty much what you did with the Carsomyr, lowering it's MR down to 20%. Such creatures should be more magical then simple humans, but in a more gentle way.

I highly highly doubt Demi has any plans for such a mod, especially in SR. But, I am considering adding a component for this to my own mod. It would reduce or eliminate MR in enemy creatures, but give them elemental and damage resistances instead. So your fireball would hit driw, but it might only do 10 hp damage.

Also, it would change every MR item available to the player in a similar way, so you can't use MR against enemies except in temporary circumstances (like using the spell). I haven't figured out what to do with Wizard Slayers and monks.

I have a RL time crunch so this probably won't go live until the summer. But if you want to discuss it, feel free to do so over in my mod's thread:

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26838&do=findComment&comment=232361

Sorry if unclear. I meant, *why* was the decision made.