Comments on the mod

[Guest Guest_Loz_*]

Hi there,

First i'd just like to congratulate you on releasing this mod which has obviously seen a lot of hard work. BG2 has in my opinion needed something like this for a long time and I definately like almost everything i've seen so far. Now I haven't had enormous amounts of time to play with it yet, but he are some immediate impressions that i have formed.

 

Elemental Damage: I think this is being distributed too freely on weapons, particuarly without saving throws. In the unmodded game very very few items deal elemental damage without a saving throw - and theres a good reason why. Elemental damage interupts spellcasting even when a caster has stoneskin on, now perhaps this is acceptable when its only epic weapons that can do it, but i have noticed a huge amount of weapons in your mod that have it on. I think saving throws really need to be added to alot of this elemental damage, in fact in my opinion, things like the short bow of gesen were too good before and needed to be toned down for this very reason, the last thing i want when installing a mod like this is to make the game easier/increase the ease of abusing ai. If you are adamant that saving throws should not be attatched to this damage then perhaps they could be added in an optional component?

 

Flail of Ages +5: 20% chance to stun with no save will allow for stunlocks. Clearly overpowered unfortunately.

 

Cloak of Displacement: 50% miss chance - this ability seems extremely out of place in BG2, its not an effect found on any other item or ability(save mirror image where you are in fact hitting something else). Not to mention that 50% physical damage reduction is absolutely huge and definetly too strong for a single, easily obtainable cloak. In the end i can imagine it would end up frustrating me even when i'm using it, simply because it goes over the usual BG2 mechanics - the game already has a system for determining if a character hits or misses, THAC0-AC, i don't see why a single cloak would use a completely different system to determine if it hits or not.

 

Stat Bonus Changes: I can certainly appreciate the drive behind this - and i even agree on most items. Some items however - in particular the giant strength belts rather lose their BG charm with these changes - not to mention it seems odd a fire giant strenth belt not giving me the strength of a fire giant. Perhaps this component could be made optional?

 

Again i'd like to say for the most part i'm really enjoying the new diversity found in items, but am just a little wary of some of the effects being attatched to items without saves. My primary reason for playing this mod is to tone down overpowered items - i don't want to trade one overpowered item for another. Even so, i'm sure over time and with some tweaking this mod will become a must-have for the BG2 veteran.

[Demivrgvs]

Elemental Damage: I think this is being distributed too freely on weapons, particuarly without saving throws. In the unmodded game very very few items deal elemental damage without a saving throw - and theres a good reason why.

Actually all vanilla's items I can think of using elemental damage didn't allowed a save against it, and even PnP doesn't allow a save against it.

I shouldn't be responsible for having more elemental dealing weapons in-game either, but I'll check it.

 

Flail of Ages +5: 20% chance to stun with no save will allow for stunlocks. Clearly overpowered unfortunately.

Though you'll get the stunning head at the very end of ToB you're still right, I thought I had put saves to both poisoning and stunning effects. Will work on that, as obviously I don't want to have overpowered items in IR.

 

Cloak of Displacement: 50% miss chance - this ability seems extremely out of place in BG2, its not an effect found on any other item or ability(save mirror image where you are in fact hitting something else).

Considering IR's goals I take "its not an effect found on any other item or ability" as a compliment! Anyway you should consider it exactly like a sort of mirror image effect (which is how it works). If you don't like this cloak don't install it, I can't make optional each of every 700 items included in IR, but avoiding installing a few of them is really simple, just look at the respective guide in the readme.

 

Stat Bonus Changes: I can certainly appreciate the drive behind this - and i even agree on most items. Some items however - in particular the giant strength belts rather lose their BG charm with these changes - not to mention it seems odd a fire giant strenth belt not giving me the strength of a fire giant. Perhaps this component could be made optional?

Again, see the readme on how to avoid installing some items. Anyway, these items are responsible of some of the most ridiculous exploits imo (e.g. Minsc suddenly becoming way more weak than Aerie just because of a single belt?!). As some players already suggested to work on them, I'll improve these girdles with more unique features, and I should be able to slightly modify the backgrounds/descriptions to better reflect the changes.

 

Again i'd like to say for the most part i'm really enjoying the new diversity found in items, but am just a little wary of some of the effects being attatched to items without saves. My primary reason for playing this mod is to tone down overpowered items - i don't want to trade one overpowered item for another. Even so, i'm sure over time and with some tweaking this mod will become a must-have for the BG2 veteran.

You're completely right, report to me any effects/items that seem overpowered and I'll work on them!

[Guest Guest_Loz_*]

Elemental Damage: I think this is being distributed too freely on weapons, particuarly without saving throws. In the unmodded game very very few items deal elemental damage without a saving throw - and theres a good reason why.

Actually all vanilla's items I can think of using elemental damage didn't allowed a save against it, and even PnP doesn't allow a save against it.

I shouldn't be responsible for having more elemental dealing weapons in-game either, but I'll check it.

 

The BG2 developers themselves revised the no saves policy of many elemental weapons after BG1. E.G. fire arrows. Even ToB quality elemental items often have only a % chance of happening eg. usuno's blade, dagger of the star and many more. In SoA many items you might have expected to contain elemental damage in fact did not..(flame tongue, flame of the north) likely because it would have made them too strong. When they did, the damage was extremely small(sword of flame +1 fire damage), and your items often have 1d6 fire damage, around what crom faeyr of angurvdual +5 were delivering -in fact i think its more. The designers clearly were very careful not to let unsaveable elemental damage on every hit become widespread and IMO you should follow this example. Personally i'd rather items were kept within bioware power trends and not whole series' of items be buffed in this way. I can understand when odd useless items are buffed, but not mass items that were already useful, just because someone might prefer to use carsomyr if he has it, all weapons were not created equal. I certainly think that it would help alot if these no save elemental weapons were alot less common and in particular didn't arrive until their counterparts in the unmodded game did(TOB mostly, also a few earlier, firetooth - overpowered in most peoples opinion and nerfed in another item nerfing mod, crom faeyr, gesen short bow, Flail of ages... these are the best items in SoA). I think you are underestimating the power of elemental damage they are definetly appearing too soon compared to what the original designers considered their power level to be. Also remember, if you give it to every other item then the variety in items (i think) you are trying to achieve will be destroyed by a commonplace "extra ability" little more interesting than just being +2 and infact makes those items less interesting to use for their unique abilities.

 

Cloak of Displacement: 50% miss chance - this ability seems extremely out of place in BG2, its not an effect found on any other item or ability(save mirror image where you are in fact hitting something else).

Considering IR's goals I take "its not an effect found on any other item or ability" as a compliment! Anyway you should consider it exactly like a sort of mirror image effect (which is how it works). If you don't like this cloak don't install it, I can't make optional each of every 700 items included in IR, but avoiding installing a few of them is really simple, just look at the respective guide in the readme.

 

I really can't agree with you here, the cloak just seems to have been buffed to being among the best items in the game - comparable with the unerfed cloak of mirroring.

 

Stat Bonus Changes: I can certainly appreciate the drive behind this - and i even agree on most items. Some items however - in particular the giant strength belts rather lose their BG charm with these changes - not to mention it seems odd a fire giant strenth belt not giving me the strength of a fire giant. Perhaps this component could be made optional?

Again, see the readme on how to avoid installing some items. Anyway, these items are responsible of some of the most ridiculous exploits imo (e.g. Minsc suddenly becoming way more weak than Aerie just because of a single belt?!). As some players already suggested to work on them, I'll improve these girdles with more unique features, and I should be able to slightly modify the backgrounds/descriptions to better reflect the changes.

 

Well on consideration i can see your point here... but i disagree on certain points like a once a day(dispellable) buff. I'm looking particuarly at girdle of fortitude... i can't really see a once a day con to 18 as being overpowered and it will often be removed in big fights. A once a day 2 con buff seems kind of pointless. I really really hope though, that you don't start extending this revised stat bonus policy to potions and other items. Potions have throughout all magical settings and myths been said to suddenly give the drinker amazing abilities they could never have had before... and it would utterly crush their(now somewhat restored - thanks to belt nerfs) use in BG2. It would certainly be a deal breaker for me.. as it would crush some of the fun & magic from the setting. I hope if you ever do go down this road you will seriously consider making consumable nerfs optional.

 

I've also noticed another change i just can't warm too.. and again its rather to do with what i expect from my experience of playing BG2. The amulet of power was always my fav amulet.. and i've become accustomed to where and when in the game i would get its amazing abilities. Particuarly the +1 casting speed, THE the most sought after quality for mages. Sadly this item seems to have been butchered beyond recognition. I have read the notes.. but i think you have just changed this item arbitrarily... it seemed clear that the designers were heading in another direction with it. Also i note that in its place is the metaspell influence amulet... so now the best caster necklace is availible in the starting dungeon? I thought it was bad enough with the helm of balduran being there. I really hope you will consider switching the cast speed back to its rightful place and considering another ability for the metaspell influence amulet or perhaps leaving just the silence immunity which seems about right for when you get it in the game. I guess my lamentations for this item will most likely land on deaf ears... but i really think having good items to look forward too throughout the game is one of the things that makes an RPG special... and the uniqueness of items in BG2(particuarly the amulet of power) makes it even more so here. Please don't ruin one of the most interesting items in the original game .

 

This also brings up the wider topic of spell cast speed. I like what you've done adding it to one or two other items (armor slot so that cast speed stacking doesn't get silly) in the game so that it isn't only found on one item. I think blizzard didn't appreciate how useful this would be to casters before they finished development(hence +1 on drow chain... and +4 on vecna being the only armor items it appeared on). I also like that +2 of the robe of vecna is still above the other options as the most powerful mage robe(also like its new look and name). I do however think its strange that only one robe in the entire game would give cast speed to mages and was thinking perhaps +1 cast speed could be added to the archmage robes. I certainly don't think it would change any kind of balance. Failing that perhaps another robe could be introduced that simply added +1, so that vecna robe the only choice.

 

I would also like to see the magic damage resistance removed from the belt of inertial barrier. Magic damage resistance is so rare in BG2, and many parties have often found magic missile to be a fall back weapon that never fails to do damage. Even such thing as mordy swords and adamantite golems are vulnerable to magic damage. I don't like 50% resistance being on an item - it doesn't feel right to me, this is just my opinion though.

 

Again - good work on the mod, sorry if any criticism seems harsh(particuarly on the elemental weapons topic), i just see a lot of potential here and have high hopes for this mod. That garners my sometimes strong opinions .

[Salk]

What I can say is that, even if I appreciate the feedback (of course), I still stand by Demivrgvs opinion about the choices taken so far...

[Demivrgvs]

Elemental Damage

I think you are underestimating the power of elemental damage they are definetly appearing too soon compared to what the original designers considered their power level to be.

Actually Stonefire and Frostreaver received +1.5 points of elemental damage, Blackblood only gets +0.5, but they all lost 1 point of thaco, damage, speed and enchantment. Flail of Ages (which is easily available though you listed it as not easily available) now inflicts 3.5 points of elemental damage 60% of the times, instead of 3 points on every hit, and its last upgrade inflicts 3.5 points of elemental damage on each hit instead of vanilla's 10 points!! I've added the Hammer of Corrosion (which is a +1 weapon), but both Ashideena and Borok's Fist lost their elemental damage properties. And so on...

The only elemental dealing weapons easily available and really enhanced are Sword of Flame (which is only a +1 weapons and hardly too powerful imo), Flame Tongue and Duskblade.

 

Furthermore, I'm not responsible for these items being available too soon. They already had elemental damage and they are still found where they originally were.

 

Cloak of Displacement

I really can't agree with you here, the cloak just seems to have been buffed to being among the best items in the game - comparable with the unerfed cloak of mirroring.

As I said in another feedback thread, I'll probably town it down.

 

Items increasing attributes instead of setting them

I'm looking particuarly at girdle of fortitude... i can't really see a once a day con to 18 as being overpowered and it will often be removed in big fights. A once a day 2 con buff seems kind of pointless. I really really hope though, that you don't start extending this revised stat bonus policy to potions and other items.

I never said the original Girdle of Fortitude was overpowered, neither I've made it raise constitution by two points for a limited time.

You do have a point regarding potions though, and I think I may agree with you.

 

Amulet of Metaspell

Removing the casting speed bonus from the Amulet of Metaspell Influence seems reasonable, though considering the AI cast silence very rarely it would drastically reduce the amulet's appeal. I'll think about it, I conceptually agree with you, but IR's main goal is to make most items "equally" interesting and nerfing this amulet may work against it.

 

Amulet of Power

The amulet of power was always my fav amulet.. and i've become accustomed to where and when in the game i would get its amazing abilities. Particuarly the +1 casting speed, THE the most sought after quality for mages. Sadly this item seems to have been butchered beyond recognition. I have read the notes.. but i think you have just changed this item arbitrarily...it seemed clear that the designers were heading in another direction with it.

I've not changed it arbitrarily, it now is much more similar to its PnP version, and designers did it too for NWN games. Vanilla's Amulet of Power was obviously a players' favourite as it granted everything a caster could hope for: magic resistance, casting speed increase, immunity to silence and even immunity to level drain. No other amulet could stand a chance!

Designers surely took another direction with this amulet, and you are free to keep the original item, but I don't like it at all. I do think the original amulet was made and put there just to help players, the fact it had immunity to level drain and it was given to players just few seconds before facing lots of vampires is a clear hint to this.

Casting Speed bonuses can really unbalance the game, and spellcasters already are too powerful imo, thus I'll have to think twice before restoring it on the Amulet of Power, and that's the reason only the most powerful robe has it.

 

Belt of Inertial Barrier

I would also like to see the magic damage resistance removed from the belt of inertial barrier.

I agree with you, I still have to find a way to revise this girdle.

 

Again - good work on the mod, sorry if any criticism seems harsh(particuarly on the elemental weapons topic), i just see a lot of potential here and have high hopes for this mod. That garners my sometimes strong opinions .

Don't worry about me, I knew I cannot please every player on every single item. Suggestions are always welcome, and as you may have noticed sometimes I'll do exactly as suggested, but sometimes I just cannot.

 

Edit:

What I can say is that, even if I appreciate the feedback (of course), I still stand by Demivrgvs opinion about the choices taken so far...

Thanks!

[sturmvogel]

Shuruppak's Plate +5

Equipped Abilities:

Armor Class: -2

Arcane Spell Failure: 0%

Dexterity Penalty: 5%

Movement Rate Penalty: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 40%

 

Notes: at the moment I've only made it as a mithral highly enchanted plate. It's probably better to replace it with something entirely different, especially considering I'm almost sure it's not canon that Shuruppak has ever wore something heavier than his black robe, and probably this armor never existed in PnP Forgotten Realms. Any suggestion?

 

Perhaps this should be given to Gromnir rather than that generic +2 plate he currently uses, although I have no idea what his history is in Forgotten Realms.

 

And perhaps Firecam shouldn't have the usual movement penalty for plate armor since it has a unique version of Free Action.

 

I tried the movement penalties for heavy armor in Refinements, but really didn't like them since it greatly complicated my control of the party's movement. My tanks would trail the rest of the party when advancing, which led to a lot of problems with my middle-rank and rear characters reaching the enemy first. It would be acceptable if the entire party would move the speed of the slowest member, but I don't think the game allows that.

[Demivrgvs]

I tried the movement penalties for heavy armor in Refinements, but really didn't like them since it greatly complicated my control of the party's movement.

If you can't stand that IR allows you to install all the other penalties without the movement ones. It's more of a roleplay feature than a balancing one, though it does have some impact on the gameplay and battle's tactics too.

 

I highly recommend trying at least once the "dexterity penalties" component, I actually consider it "mandatory" for both roleplaying and gamaplaying issues.

 

Perhaps this should be given to Gromnir rather than that generic +2 plate he currently uses, although I have no idea what his history is in Forgotten Realms.

I already planned to improve Gromnir's armor (the general who faces the party in the Oasis has the same armor though), but I'm not sure if I should re-allocate Yaga Shura's Armor. I'll think about it.

 

And perhaps Firecam shouldn't have the usual movement penalty for plate armor since it has a unique version of Free Action.

It doesn't have Free Action anymore. Anyway I've tied all armors' penalties to weight and encumberance, there's nothing magical behind it.