BG2 Tweak Pack - Bug when using "Allow Thieving and Stealth in Heavy Armor" in BG1Tutu

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yes, I find there's a lot of demand to make Tweaks take even longer to install.

Well, a few seconds to choose which sub-component to install instead of un-and-re-equipping the armors for hours on end is a good trade for me, I don't know about you though.

[PsteelPsion]

This is by design, but I think I'll roll it back again next version. I seem to change my mind about the shadow armor every couple of releases.

 

Even with the MS penalty it's still substantially better than any other studded leather.

Thanks for taking this under (re) consideration camdawg. It is of course better than other sets of studded for thieving skills, but the difference is pretty marginal, and in general the skill penalties for studded (to me anyway) make studded a non-option for traditional thieves until they get to mid or high level (eventually you reach a point where those points don't really matter, but it takes a while.) By the same token, by the time you reach that point, the bonus of the shadow armor doesn't really matter much either. The way I look at it, the shadow armor bonus was originally balanced for thieves without studded penalties in the game; in other words, I suspect that if bioware had put the studded penalties in the game, they would have put a bigger bonus on this piece to make it more viable, but that's just speculation.

 

FWIW, I'd be perfectly happy to have the armor recast as simple leather with everything else the same (ie the loss of one point of AC isn't as big of a deal to me as the loss of 55 skill pts.) This way, you stay true to the armor penalties, but don't ruin what was intended to be the best thief armor in bg1.

 

Thanks again.

[WVN777]

Yes, it's still better than other Studded Leathers, but as PsteelPsion noted, subtracting the penalty from the bonus makes it 2.5% worse than plain leather. The original behavior was a 7.5% overall improvement, and I think that should stand, over and above this component. After all, there's no point in the Shadowmasters of Amn wearing a garment of enchanted blackness if it creaks or clanks enough to give them away, is there? (Heck, they'd be better off buying Leather +3 from Gorch.)

 

In my view it's not necessary to recast the item type from Studded Leather to Leather. I just consider it to be magically just as quiet as leather (lacking the -20 penalty to MS), and that's part of why it's so elite and so expensive. Without that benefit, the description just doesn't make any sense. It would still be a step below the Night's Gift (blessed by Shar with a +20), and the Deep Night remains a difficult trade-off decision for that extra point of AC.

 

According to Near Infinity, under version 13, the LEATH08.ITM currently has these effects:

Stealth bonus (59) ... Value: -30 (-10 to offset "No Armor" and -20 for Studded Leather)

Hide in shadow bonus (275) ... Value: -5 (to offset "No Armor")

Hide in shadow bonus (275) ... Value: 15 (the original bonus)

 

I'm thinking that either the Stealth (MS) entry should only be -10 (just like Leather, even though it's not), or a special entry of +20 should be inserted to eliminate the -20 penalty, depending on how the mod actually works. (I don't know how it was accomplished before, because I've done a new install.) Please do change it back again in the next release.

 

EDIT: Removing the -20 penalty to Stealth (MS) with NI made the Shadow Armor +15 above Leather Armor, or equivalent to "No Armor" with the base stat increases. I'm not sure if that meets the high standards of the Shadowmasters of Amn for "melding into shadows", as the character still receives no effective improvement when equipping the item. Removing the offsets to "No Armor" as well would bring it to +15 above "No Armor", however that could be viewed as more powerful than in the original game.