Andris definitely cheats...and other SCS issues

[Saros]

Also wanted to ask about Dopplegangers - are these supposed to have infinite Mirror Image + Haste buffing sequences? They seem to refresh right after the previous one had expired! Tested even without invisibility (just running away). In fact, even asleep dopplegangers activate infinite such sequences.

 

And are Phase spiders supposed to Dimension Door to PC even when under Emotion? Or is this a vanilla game bug?

 

Re-edit: Andris (North Pole dungeon) indeed cheats! I don't know how or why. First, when PC and Andris were 1 vs 1, Andris cast his starting buffs (MGoI, II, Shield, Mirror Image, MMM). PC was under Improved Invisibility. Andris cast Remove Magic. PC's buffs dispelled, PC cast Invisibility. Andris simply walked a little and...disappeared! His aura was definitely not yet cleansed for him to cast Invisibility, no such thing was mentioned in the dialogue box as well, nor did he quaff an invisibility potion or something. At first I thought he DD away (although that also would be cheating with non-cleansed aura and no message). Saw him gulping a healing potion nearby. PC waited for enemy buffs to expire. PC buffed well and attacked. Andris' initial buffs re-activated. Is he supposed to do this???

 

There is another issue...Andris has Minor Globe, Improved Invisibility and Stoneskin in his starting buffs. After start of combat, he casts Dimension Door and Teleport Field. These are already five 4-th level slots. This equals 13th level specialist mage! However, Andris didn't cast any 6th level spells. So am I to presume that Andris is 13th level wizard (which he isn't, because I watched his buffs' expirations, he's 10 or 11 lvl), or that simply Andris cheats and has unreasonable number of spell slots for his level, or simply starting buffs are not substracted from the wizard's spell slots?

[DavidW]

Also wanted to ask about Dopplegangers - are these supposed to have infinite Mirror Image + Haste buffing sequences? They seem to refresh right after the previous one had expired! Tested even without invisibility (just running away). In fact, even asleep dopplegangers activate infinite such sequences.

It's supposed to be infinite, yes. It's not supposed to happen when they're asleep; that's a bug.

 

And are Phase spiders supposed to Dimension Door to PC even when under Emotion? Or is this a vanilla game bug?

It's a bug. It would probably happen in the vanilla game but I can't really blame it, since I rewrote those scripts.

 

Re-edit: Andris (North Pole dungeon) indeed cheats! I don't know how or why. First, when PC and Andris were 1 vs 1, Andris cast his starting buffs (MGoI, II, Shield, Mirror Image, MMM). PC was under Improved Invisibility. Andris cast Remove Magic. PC's buffs dispelled, PC cast Invisibility. Andris simply walked a little and...disappeared! His aura was definitely not yet cleansed for him to cast Invisibility, no such thing was mentioned in the dialogue box as well, nor did he quaff an invisibility potion or something. At first I thought he DD away

He almost certainly did DD away.

 

(although that also would be cheating with non-cleansed aura and no message).

I don't know why there wasn't a message. He does cheat, he uses ForceSpell(). (I think this is one of two places in the mod where I do this, so kudos for spotting it!) The reason, to be honest, is that scripting to allow for his DD being interrupted ended up being way too complicated. I don't know why he does so before his aura clears, though.

 

Saw him gulping a healing potion nearby.

Do you mean, you physically saw him? Or you saw the string? If it's the latter, you can see it wherever he is. (He's on the far side of the dungeon, in fact).

 

PC waited for enemy buffs to expire. PC buffed well and attacked. Andris' initial buffs re-activated. Is he supposed to do this???

What he's supposed to do is teleport away once his buffs are down, heal, rebuff, and teleport back in. I can't quite tell from your description whether that happened or not. (I should note that SCS scripts may do slightly odd things if you're doing "cheesy" stuff like getting out of sight and waiting for buffs to come down. I don't in the slightest mind people playing that way, but I didn't really write for it so occasional oddities may occur, particularly in fiddly custom scripts like Andris - hopefully less so with the generic mage scripts.)

 

There is another issue...Andris has Minor Globe, Improved Invisibility and Stoneskin in his starting buffs. After start of combat, he casts Dimension Door and Teleport Field. These are already five 4-th level slots. This equals 13th level specialist mage! However, Andris didn't cast any 6th level spells. So am I to presume that Andris is 13th level wizard (which he isn't, because I watched his buffs' expirations, he's 10 or 11 lvl), or that simply Andris cheats and has unreasonable number of spell slots for his level, or simply starting buffs are not substracted from the wizard's spell slots?

In the vanilla game, Andris has unreasonable numbers of spell slots for his level. I can't offhand recall whether I changed that; probably not, as I generally leave original-game resources alone.

[Saros]

Probably his script got messed. I will describe the exact course of battle (lots of cheese included):

 

Andris, Beyn and Malacar neutral. PC scouted invisible, went out of their sight, cast triple Web at their direction. All were caught in the Webs. PC approached. Andris (still Webbed and neutral) DD away. Other 2 were slain. Webs ended. I saw a message stating 'Andris: Dimension Door: PC'. PC cast Invisibility. Andris teleported a second later (still neutral). I saved the game, rested, and began testing, and this is when these strange things happened.

 

PC engaged combat and hit Andris in melee. Andris' starting buffs activated. Andris shot Remove Magic at Improved Invisible PC. Remove Magic dispelled all PC buffs. PC cast Invisibility. Andris disappeared at this point, with no message in the dialogue window. Andris gulped a healing potion (I saw the message 'Gulp' to appear only a little to the right of PC, and the effect of the healing potion as well). PC waited enemy buffs to expire, re-buffed, attacked, and Andris' buffs activated anew.

 

In my first run of this dungeon he simply stayed near the exit of the dungeon after DD away. I killed him there, again with off-screen Webs, because even then his triggering sequences were infinite.

 

I don't mind enemies who cheat, but then I hope no one minds if I kill them webbed while neutral I just wanted to clarify what the hell is going on. Unfortunately it all comes to the stage 'fight cheese with more cheese'.

 

Edit: I would like to mention the fact that although enemies react accordingly to dangerous Area of effect spells shot from off-screen, like Fireball or Sleep, they tend to ignore Web (web is kinda white spell, since it doesn't turn even neutrals hostile). @DavidW: you might want to fix that in further releases of the SCS mod.

[Salk]

Unfortunately it all comes to the stage 'fight cheese with more cheese'.

 

That is exactly what should never happen.

[DavidW]

Unfortunately it all comes to the stage 'fight cheese with more cheese'.

 

That is exactly what should never happen.

 

I don't think it is what happens. In normal circumstances (i.e. party encounters which don't involve hit-and-run attacks), Andris fights till his defences go down, then teleports away, rebuffs, and comes back. Granted, to avoid script horrificness his teleport is uninterruptable, but I don't think that's a serious issue. (I could just as easily have called it a contingency or something.) So Salk, can you clarify what you don't like here?

[Saros]

Yes, well, no matter what solo or party tactic might be, even if it is 'hit-and-run', should Andris have more than one buffing sequence once each 8 hours? THIS is the cheating moment which I had to reply with off-screen Web. However, I'd just fought a similar battle, with Davaeorn. Nice improvements here, but Davaeorn doesn't cheat! He does not have unlimited starting buff sequences, nor does he teleport away without aura cleansed. It proved to be a difficult and rewarding fight (Davaeorn has pretty amazing saves so no Web, and his 2 Battle Horrors are apparently immune to its effect as well). PC applied the Invisibility-and-waiting-enemy buffs-expiration tactic, and it worked. Davaeorn still tried to make some surprise shots after his buffs (except Stoneskin) waned, but didn't cheat, and this I liked very much! Nice improvements here, without potions (or even more expensive limited items) this battle would be impossible for a solo no-reload run.

[DavidW]

Yes, well, no matter what solo or party tactic might be, even if it is 'hit-and-run', should Andris have more than one buffing sequence once each 8 hours?

 

Well, the idea is that he applies the second lot of buffing spells once he's teleported away. (He's gone long enough).

[Salk]

Unfortunately it all comes to the stage 'fight cheese with more cheese'.

 

That is exactly what should never happen.

 

I don't think it is what happens. In normal circumstances (i.e. party encounters which don't involve hit-and-run attacks), Andris fights till his defences go down, then teleports away, rebuffs, and comes back. Granted, to avoid script horrificness his teleport is uninterruptable, but I don't think that's a serious issue. (I could just as easily have called it a contingency or something.) So Salk, can you clarify what you don't like here?

 

What I don't like is the 'fight cheese with more cheese' solution. I am not saying this is what happens with SCS. I am just replying to another user who thinks that this is what happens in his game.

 

You can read it as: this can't happen with SCS because 'fight cheese with more cheese' is never the only solution to manage SCS encounters.