Icewind Gate (or other BG improvements)

[Kneller]

I'm dusting off my old IE games to take another run through. However, I've never finished the BG series before. The reason is always the same. I get so far into BG2, all the characters are super=powered, and I get bored and don't want to play anymore. Time stop was fun...once. But, between the GWWs, Time Stop+Improved Alacrity+You're-dead-and-don't-know-it-yet, Two-handed-vorpal-sword-+infinity+1, and all the rest, the power levels are just absurd.

 

That's one thing I would say about the IWD series. The story might have been lacking, but they didn't let the power levels overshadow everything else. Frankly, I think that IWD1 is the best 2e implementation of D&D, and IWD2 is a solid early adaption of 3e. I've already decided to (once again) shelf BG mid-game, and instead go through IWD (I don't even remember how the second one ends anymore).

 

I would actually like to finish BG2+ToB someday. The story and characters, as much as I've experienced, are great, but I can't stand the current system. The last time I played through, I heard of a project called Icewind Gate, where BG2+ToB was ported into the engine of IWD2. Therefore, there would be no Time Stop, GWW or other HLAs, etc. At the time, it was beta and totally unstable/unfinished. I've been looking around to see if it has been finished and I found not one, but two Icewind Gate's. Based on what I've read, I get the impression that neither was finished. Does anyone have any experience with either? Has anyone managed a stable BG2+ToB play through with them? Thanks.

[Ishad Nha]

"Time stop was fun...once. But, between the GWWs, Time Stop+Improved Alacrity+You're-dead-and-don't-know-it-yet, Two-handed-vorpal-sword-+infinity+1, and all the rest, the power levels are just absurd."

I found that Icewind Dale 2 lacked the detail of BG2. It is all a matter of personal taste of course.

 

"Based on what I've read, I get the impression that neither was finished. Does anyone have any experience with either? Has anyone managed a stable BG2+ToB play through with them?"

I would seem to be the person who has most recently played through the Icewind Gate 2 game. The play through was stable. Finally finishing either version would be impossible because BG2 has so many Actions (functions) that IWD2 simply did not. Time and again I had to find IWG2 workarounds for basic features of BG2

 

The Delta is superior to the Beta version. I have done a post on the Delta in Bioware Social forums and in Boards of Magic.

Icewind Gate Delta: Third Edition Baldur's Gate 2

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Baldur039s-Gate-1-and-2/Baldur039s-Gate-2-and-Throne-of-Bhaal-Official-Campaigns-Spoilers-Warning/Icewind-Gate-Delta-Third-Edition-Baldur039s-Gate-2-7672165-1.html

Icewind Gate - Delta version

http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55387

 

In the long run GemRB may be the ticket for a top notch version of Icewind Gate 2.

[Kneller]

So, IWG appears to still be quite a bit buggy. I've only recently heard of GemRB, but that seems to be beta as well. There's a lot on the todo list.

 

By chance, do you know of any mods that tones down the uberness of BG2 across the board?

[Ishad Nha]

"So, IWG appears to still be quite a bit buggy. I've only recently heard of GemRB, but that seems to be beta as well. There's a lot on the todo list."

IWG2 is a fun alternative to the original BG2. It also gives a good understanding of the Third Edition.

GemRB is basically functional, I am working through the BG2 version of it now.

"By chance, do you know of any mods that tones down the uberness of BG2 across the board?"

You want something to make it tougher? There are such mods but I don't ever use them myself. Browse modding sites like this and look at the description of each mod.

[grogerson]

@ Kneller - If you want a variant of IWD1, you could try the IWD-in-BG2 conversion here. It's pretty stable (only one major bug I'm aware of, easily worked around) and Kulyok has adapted her IWD NPC's mod to work with it (and nicely too, in my opinion). The Unfinished Business and Item Upgrade mods for IWD can also be included. Check out the forum for instructions how.

[Kneller]

You want something to make it tougher?

 

No, I want to scale back the power levels across the board, the enemies as well as the PC/NPCs. I don't like any of that epic level nonsense, nor the HLAs. The spellcasting is just unreal (stopping time, full immunities, etc.). Not to mention, sorting through the layers of abjuration (enemies and my own) feels more like I'm filing taxes than playing a game. Just a comparison, the most powerful thing you could summon in IWD was probably an elemental, and it took some time to get that far. In BG2, by halfway through the game, you can start summoning spell-slinging, butt-kicking, extraplanar beings.

 

I know it sounds weird to essentially be asking for a game with less features, but the power level is so overblown in BG2 that it really detracts from the story. Yeah, I get it, charname is the child of a god. However, the bhaalspawn powers charname gets in BG1 is plenty to support that plot device. Giving PCs/bhaalspawn/everyone-else-in-the-world the ludicrous power that they can achieve in this game actually detracts from immersion. It's why I've yet to actually finish BG2. It sucks to be a chronic quitter on this one. I really like the story, and really want to finish the series, but I can't stomach the gameplay past somewhere around the halfway point of BG2.

 

That's why I was hoping for a completed IWG. IWD1+2 did things so much better by way of system, especially with magic.

[Ishad Nha]

The spells are usually wholly mainstream pen and paper spells, found in any high level pen and paper campaign. Certain spells may come from the Forgotten Realms campaign expansions not the core rules.

As for the High Level Abilities, there was an options book that detailed such things.

[Kneller]

wholly mainstream pen and paper

 

I've played d20 since the first edition. I know these kinds of things are in there. I just don't like it very much. Omnipotence isn't terribly interesting to me. I've never played epic level in any group, and I've known a lot of gamers who weren't into it. I had thought/hoped that with all the munchkiny kensai/mage-ing that went on in this game, someone would have made it mod to scale it all back a bit.

 

Also, in PnP, abjuration was never so inflated in either edition. For BG2, they meshed a bunch of 2e and 3e material together and it isn't terribly balanced. Alacrity never existed, Project Image was much more limited, so was time stop, wish spells cost xp, most other spells effectively cost gp. As for HLAs, GWW had stiffer requirements. The closest thing PnP has to Dragon's Breath is Dragon Knight, which is a ritual spell requiring two other mages, 350,000gp to develop and about 15,000xp. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

 

This is why I think the IWD series did a better job. IWD1 was 2e, IWD2 was 3e. The only mishmashing I recall was the option to swap backstabs for sneak attacks in IWD with HoW. No HLAs even though you could get to level 30. No "creative interpretations" of the magic system. Most things worked the way they should have.

 

If you want a variant of IWD1, you could try the IWD-in-BG2

 

Actually, that's the opposite of what I'm trying to find. IWD's generic story wrapped up in BG's inflated gameplay? I'm trying to go the other way. BG's great story put into IWD's (1 or 2's) solid gameplay.