thought for casting in armor

[Ardanis]

It won't quite work for high-level characters, since spells' power level is capped at 20. Other than that, I see no reason why not add it.

[kreso]

 

- Decreased caster level: The magical energy has to flow through your body as you cast the spell, and the more of a physical barrier you put up between yourself and the Weave, the more the potency of the spell is diminished. So your fireballs are weaker, your Projected Images can't be maintained for as long, and you are less effective at Dispelling the magic of other, less-encumbered spellcasters.

 

I personally prefer the speed penalties in my game, but all else being equal, I would like to combine it with caster level penalties if possible. It would add a bit more flavor. I designed a whole kit around this opcode, it's a multiclass mage who can cast and dispel with the same power as a single-class mage with the same XP. (But no extra spells or anything - it's a minor effect, but nice for flavor.)

 

About this.

IR adds a few items that increase casting level. These effects can't stack in either negative or positive way. I think the one equipped last is used; would probably be a good thing to check anyway.

So, adding a negative caster level opcode to armor would not really work well, since it would get overriden if one equips (or is under the effect of a spell, such as Refinements "Union") an item which adds caster level bonus, whole concept is made useless.

Thinking of which - it would be very cool to make a spell (actually, change one of the existing ones) that increases caster level apart from Energy Drain (some spell AI also uses - Moment of Prescience would imo be perfect ...)

 

Fwiw, I use "no casting in armor". If an armor has 1 in 100 chance to create a spell failure, it's 1 too much for me.

Likewise, casting speed is the most important stat for mages. Any penalty to that is very bad, moreover since mages have enough spells to mimick armor protection.

Finally, I use IR. With that, wizard robes are generally much better than any armor you can get in the first place.

[Demivrgvs]

Caster lvl bonus

Thinking of which - it would be very cool to make a spell (actually, change one of the existing ones) that increases caster level apart from Energy Drain (some spell AI also uses - Moment of Prescience would imo be perfect ...)

I already planned touse it for KR Avenger's Spell Rage. Why do you think it would suit MoP? The usefulness on such a high lvl spell would be limited at creating hard to dispel buffs or a getting a pwerful Dispel Magic.

 

Spell Failure

Fwiw, I use "no casting in armor". If an armor has 1 in 100 chance to create a spell failure, it's 1 too much for me.

I agree, and that's why this is no longer the reccomended install option.

 

Casting speed penalties

Likewise, casting speed is the most important stat for mages. Any penalty to that is very bad, moreover since mages have enough spells to mimick armor protection.

The idea is that a moderate CS penalty should allow an armored mage to cast long lasting buffs (e.g. Stoneskin) before combat without having to remove the armor, and to still be able to use "fast to cast" spells during combat.

 

Robes vs armor

Finally, I use IR. With that, wizard robes are generally much better than any armor you can get in the first place.

Ideally, robes should always remain the best option for pure spellcasters imo, but light/medium armors should be ok for specific Thief/Mage or Fighter/Mage builds. I think casting speed penalty of 2 is ok in exchange for 10% dmg res and not-dispellable good AC from a chain mail, as long as the F/M is more geared toward melee than spellcasting. No?

 

The penalty has to be at least a bit noticeable or we would incentivate multi/dual even more than they already are.

[kreso]

Caster lvl bonus

Thinking of which - it would be very cool to make a spell (actually, change one of the existing ones) that increases caster level apart from Energy Drain (some spell AI also uses - Moment of Prescience would imo be perfect ...)

I already planned touse it for KR Avenger's Spell Rage. Why do you think it would suit MoP? The usefulness on such a high lvl spell would be limited at creating hard to dispel buffs or a getting a pwerful Dispel Magic.

I find the spell slightly UP, given enemies use Critical Strike and the cheesiest of them all attack you under Time Stop. Also, mages don't really need fantastic saves, given they have more than enough spells to keep themselves safe.

I wouldn't replace current MoP effects, I'd just add one more - caster level bonus.

 

 

Casting speed penalties

Likewise, casting speed is the most important stat for mages. Any penalty to that is very bad, moreover since mages have enough spells to mimick armor protection.

The idea is that a moderate CS penalty should allow an armored mage to cast long lasting buffs (e.g. Stoneskin) before combat without having to remove the armor, and to still be able to use "fast to cast" spells during combat.

Then he gets breached/dispelled and is screwed since the spells with lowest casting times are the ones you need the most (Stoneskin, PfMW etc.).

Since their casting time is so low, the relative increase in casting time is huge even with a +2 penalty (stoneskin suddenly has a ct=3, which is a huge increase - it will take more than twice the time to get PfMW off than w/o armor).

It doesn't matter much if a spell with ct=8 gets cast with ct=10, but for key defensive spells, this is a major downside.

Not for me, in any case.

 

Robes vs armor

Finally, I use IR. With that, wizard robes are generally much better than any armor you can get in the first place.

Ideally, robes should always remain the best option for pure spellcasters imo, but light/medium armors should be ok for specific Thief/Mage or Fighter/Mage builds. I think casting speed penalty of 2 is ok in exchange for 10% dmg res and not-dispellable good AC from a chain mail, as long as the F/M is more geared toward melee than spellcasting. No?

The penalty has to be at least a bit noticeable or we would incentivate multi/dual even more than they already are.

Frankly, the only "armor" I'd wear on a fighter/mage is Bladesinger. Not because of AC it gives you, but since it has a -1 CT bonus.

In any other case, Robes are simply superior.

Battlemage - +2 AC (that stacks with mage buffs like Spirit Armor), +2 THAC0 (great for multis), + 10 HP (fantastic to avoid PWs). For mage/thieves, the best robe in the game for a long, long time.

Larcloch's-

Arcane Might - +2 saves across the board, resistance to magic damage, and a +2 caster bonus to boot.

 

No armor can match up to this.

 

Frankly, there's really no contest from my point of view - even if spellcasting in armor would be totally unhindered, I'd use robes on both single and multi wizards.

[subtledoctor]

About this.

IR adds a few items that increase casting level. These effects can't stack in either negative or positive way.

Yeah, I've since learned this. Shame.

 

As for wizard robes, I find that they are not perfectly balanced. Robes of the Battlemage are in a class apart. What's the one you didn't mention? I forget. Wait I just looked it up - Robe of the Weave. Actually I guess it's okay, but I hate MR, so I usually edit it to give +1 1st level spell (aka MM 1x/day ) and -1 casting speed bonus.

 

If you can have metal armor that improves casting speed, surely there should be a magical robe that does as well!

[kreso]

. What's the one you didn't mention? I forget. Wait I just looked it up - Robe of the Weave. Actually I guess it's okay, but I hate MR, so I usually edit it to give +1 1st level spell (aka MM 1x/day ) and -1 casting speed bonus.

I find MR kind of useless on mages of any kind hence I don't use Weave, but that's just me I guess...

[Demivrgvs]

Casting speed penalty

Since their casting time is so low, the relative increase in casting time is huge even with a +2 penalty (stoneskin suddenly has a ct=3, which is a huge increase - it will take more than twice the time to get PfMW off than w/o armor).

It doesn't matter much if a spell with ct=8 gets cast with ct=10, but for key defensive spells, this is a major downside.

Yes, the relative increase is huge, but the absolute value is not imo. Stoneskin and PfMW gets a 300% increase to casting speed but CS 3 is still quite fast, the only real problem is the damn lack of concentration check within EE imo.

Mage robes

As for wizard robes, I find that they are not perfectly balanced. Robes of the Battlemage are in a class apart. What's the one you didn't mention? I forget. Wait I just looked it up - Robe of the Weave. Actually I guess it's okay, but I hate MR, so I usually edit it to give +1 1st level spell (aka MM 1x/day ) and -1 casting speed bonus.

If you can have metal armor that improves casting speed, surely there should be a magical robe that does as well!

You already have it, it's Larloch's Robe, and it gives +2 casting speed bonus!

I thought RotW was a perfect complement to SotM as together they give you 40% magic res and very few spells ignore mr. I guess Kreso think mr isn't that great for mages for the same reason he think they don't need fantastic saves from Moment of Prescience, but both mr and saves are an additional layer of protection on top of spells that can still save you when you've been "breached". What am I missing?

[kreso]

What am I missing?

I don't reload when I play.