Wand tweaks

[pochesun]

1 hour ago, NdranC said:

I also agree with this but to a limit. Do to the nature of mods, we are changing things for what we think it's better. IR changed attribute settings items because it felt it was worse for the game but the end result arguably just shifted the power balance without spreading it (easily fixable by using 3e stats). As a player it sucks when you have a cool idea but the game doesn't do the bare minimum to reward you gameplay or your build choices. There is so much suspension of disbelief I can do to my gameplay before I just can't justify playing unfun and unrewarding playstyles that look like they could be possible if only we tweak the numbers a little. We don't have to make everything perfectly balanced but maybe striving for closing the gap to make playstyles viable would increase the levels of fun for people that want to try something new.

That being said my original point was an open ended one about the personal struggle I face when modding videogames too much to the point of becoming unrecognizable.

I see what you mean by that but please mind that "spreading power" and "game rewarding your build choices" have contradictory points. The more you make everything even or "spreaded" the less game is inclined to reward you for you choices. Again, BG is a game of big choices and radical turns of events, there is no need in spreading power. 

Regarding 3e stats. As i have mentioned i have very little experience dealing with real DnD gameplay and 3e especially so i am pretty sure you know better about that. If people think, based on their experience, that implementing that is for good - i am for it as well  

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, pochesun said:

I dont think BG should be a "perfecly balanced game" (whatever it means)

I'm about to rant.  Don't be offended, it is not directed at you.  But I see this kind of thing SO MUCH and it drives me frackin' crazy.

We're not obsessed with "game balance."  IR/SR/whatever other mod that includes "rebalancing" is not trying to turn the game into 4E, where everyone can do the same things, just with different visual effects.  That is NOT the point. 

The Mauler's Arm mace is the perfect example of this.  In the vanilla game, it is a great item for Aerie or Viconia, but it is basically useless if Minsc needs a magical mace to use.  Giving that to Minsc is not fun!  Item Revisions tries to improve it by changing it to a +2 bonus.  But now the mace is amazing for Minsc, but totally useless for Viconia.

Trying to "balance" that mace has nothing to do with some kind of abstract "balanced" idea of gameplay.  The point is, both versions of the mace can involve an interaction (give it to Minsc, give it to Viconia) that will not be fun for the player!  Most people advocating for "better balance" really just want to eliminate interactions that are not fun, and maximize interactions that are fun and interesting.  Sometimes this can even be achieved by "nerfing" something.  In the vanilla game, speaking very generally, you might find yourself with effectively no choice to make as far as how you equip your character; but with IR you might have tougher decisions to make, "do I want to kit my character out with these items, or with those other items which will make him/her strong in this other way?"  Insofar as part of the fun of the game is deciding how to make your character strong and in which ways, having more decisions like that is a good thing!

[pochesun]

@subtledoctor i am not arguing that mods should not exist or changes should not be made, i was jsut arguing not to "balance" everything too much. If there is an obvious and noted by many people flaw in gameplay omitted or missed by designers  - mod is a great way to fix it, hands down.  

[subtledoctor]

6 minutes ago, pochesun said:

i was jsut arguing not to "balance" everything too much.

I'm just saying, I see this kind of thing expressed a LOT (again, not necessarily by you), and I find it nearly meaningless because I don't know anyone who ever tries to do that. 

Another example harking back to earlier in the thread: one of my mods thoroughly rebalances saving throws.  The normal game has about (wild guesstimation) 80% saves vs. spells, 15% saves vs. death/poison,  and maybe 5% combined vs. breath weapon, petrification, and wands.  I balance this out, making it more like (wild guesstimation) 40% vs. spells, 25% vs. death, 25% vs. breath weapon, and 10% vs. petrification.  The objection against "balance" is something like "saves vs. spells are prevalent, and classes that have strong saves vs. spells are strong, and rebalancing saving throws takes away from that." 

But the point of diversifying saving throws is to diversify how you can deal with the saving throws that come your way.  I give thieves strong saves vs. breath weapon, which means they are strong against evocation spells, so send your thief in against that firebug invoker!  Or whatever.  The point is, the purpose of the mod is not balance for balance's sake, but to diversify tactical options.  If you look closer at most changes that you think are about "balance," I suspect you will find the same thing.