Caster kits with alternative spellcasting rules

[kaiiak]

I really appreciate you taking the time to run test @subtledoctor   . yes , I did ,modified the known spells tables (QD_splsrckn.2da) to ~12 spells per level , so as you explained that might be the cause of the delay . one things that still cant explain , is that for some time , the delay is manageable (1.5-2 seconds ) even with all those spells , which is reasonable for all those many spells . but for reason I cant explain (no new spells ) it suddenly becomes 4 -5 seconds .  this happen after every spell on non combat scenarios .

the other two changes I did - I cant think why those will add to the delay, but making sure I mention them - is changing the d5-manX to have a duration of 300+(60*level) to basically have the mana point come back slowly without the need to rest for 8 hours . and I gave my sorcerer more tracking (mana) points per level (editing d5man3X files ) to roughly 5-7 points per level.

As I said , once I played with your mod I cant go back to spell slot so I'm determined to work around these delays somehow   . 

Thanks again for your work ! ( do you have patreon ? , I would love to show my appreciation to your work somehow)

 

[subtledoctor]

Okay, based on my tests and just thinking it over, I think that is probably the problem.  With 12 spells per level, you have 108 known spells.  Each one has to removed with opcode 172, and then added up to 99 times* with opcode 171.  That means, potentially, something like 10,000 effects being processed each time you cast a spell.  And some non-trivial fraction of them being gated behind conditional 326 checks.  That's asking a lot of your computer.  The normal Mana Sorcerer maxes out at 45 known spells, so the computer has to do less than half the work.  And I have a very vague notion that it isn't linear - that processing 2,000 effects would take more than twice as long as processing 1,000 effects.  Though, to be honest, I don't recall why I have that notion.  Maybe it's wrong.

* You said you gave yourself more mana points... did your total go above 99?  I've just assumed that wouldn't work, but maybe it does?  (If you have 108 known spells and 200 mana points, then you're processing ~20,000 effects per cast... )

With that many known spells, it kinda takes away half the point of being a sorcerer.  Maybe you would prefer something like the Arcanist, since it lets you cast spontaneously but doesn't stop you learning and managing lots of spells.  Because you only prepare a subset of your known spells, it should not run into this kind of performance issue.  Hmm, now you've got me wondering if I could combine the Arcanist and Mana systems, to create a kit that can learn spells like wizards, and prepare them like Arcanists, but cast them via mana points instead of spell-level slots.  Off the top of my head, I can't see any reason it wouldn't work.  But what would such a hybrid beast be called?

[kaiiak]

Ha... thats what I'm here for :creating problems that nurture your creativity   . Unfortunately I couldn't get the Arcanist to work it failed to initialized the spell system in every game I tried it (Bg1/SOD , BG2 , arcanist standalone as well as tome & blood package) , I ended up with single instance of each spell that disappeared from my spell bar after I cast it (just like a regular wizard).

beside , Arcanist would still limit me to X spells per level , I love the flexible casting of the mana points , and I found Ii'm not hording spells as I used to do.  I also really liked your old psionic system where max hit point was reduced after every cast (and returned at a fix rate of 1 per round) .

10 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

But what would such a hybrid beast be called?

mana wizard    ?  yes please !

 

 

[kaiiak]

14 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

did your total go above 99?

yes , it did go above that with no issue . but honesly that is not even needed . I simply modified the d5man-X to return at some rate 300 Sec for 1st level spells , 360 Sec for 2nd ,etc.. 

this way you can still have some limit , but I found myself allowing myself enjoying high level spells 

[subtledoctor]

11 minutes ago, kaiiak said:

I also really liked your old psionic system where max hit point was reduced after every cast

The current version adds a psionic point total, but you can burn through all your points and then it will work just like the old system, abilities fueled by your max hit points, until the next time you rest and you get your psionic points back.

10 minutes ago, kaiiak said:

yes , it did go above [99 mana points] with no issue

Iiiiinteresting... I assumed the UI would only display 99 instances of an innate ability.  Don't know why I thought that, and I didn't even bother to test it.  Silly me.

EDIT - just did a quick test, and I think the value rolls over to zero if it goes above 128.  Maybe I'll adjust the table... maybe keep the limit at 99, but let you reach it earlier - at 20th level, instead of 30th.

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
What you describe seems like the 3.5 Erudite, but the Erudite is psionic.

For the mana-based Arcanist, what about the Armanist?