EET Install Order - iteration xyz

[Gordian]

Oh, that's a lot to react to - thanks for your extensive input!

• Okay, I'll keep b_Spells in that case.
• Hm.. from this list one could probably argue Ghostform and Iron Body - maybe I could change this with NI, if I end up wanting it. I agree on the rest not being breachable. Thank you for this great overview!
• I do prefer Ironskins being a stronger form of Stoneskin but the optimal solution for me would likely be having SRRs Mantle and adding the RndTweaks one as extra spell - is that feasible? Or rather, can I do that myself?
• Gotcha on the RS front, but the "issue" persists that it's broken on my current install (without 5E) and I wonder what caused it. I can keeper it in of course but would prefer it working thus not needing to touch the character with this tool. (Also a reason for adding HLAs to spheres and then implementing the system for proper innate spheres.)

Hi @Angel and thanks for tuning in! Also thank you so much for the spell list, this helps the spells from other mods --> spheres endeavour substantially. If you have specific ideas which sphere each spell/HLA (if any, as arcane only) should belong to, then let me know.

These should be the spheres, if I'm not mistaken:

Spoiler

Universal               
Life                    
Death                    
Benediction             Vermin    
Destruction            
Protection                
War                    
Exploration            
Knowledge                
Deception                
Thought                
Dread                    
Vigor                    
Affliction                
Animal                    
Plant                    
Earth                    
Air                    
Water                    
Fire                    
Light                    
Shadow                    
Magic                    
Astral                    

• Also, do you recommend using your large creatures damage modification? Does it impact pathfinding in any way?
• And sure ad HLAs: would be neat additions for ToB! I would have to keeper them in now, thus I might end up adding one or two to spheres locally, we'll see. I always use the delay HLAs component, thus I might not be able to learn all of them if I go overboard.
• Ad Liches from mih_eq: this component did interfere with many mods that wanted to edit lich.itm. I guess SCS wouldn't account for it and Magic Battles Revised (=MBR) wants to change it as well, iirc. I did leave that component out for now. Same goes for +save DC equal to a spell's level, which might make the game a little easy for a caster heavy party. Not sure yet. I did include the one from Tweaks Anthology already. (at the end, for flexibility)
• The spell.ids sanitisation is desirable.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

53 minutes ago, Gordian said:

The SoB warnings seem to be fine. The changes were made, it seems

Yeah those "no effects altered" warnings can generally be ignored. If the mod makes ten different changes to an item, but one of the values was already in the desired state so one of the ten changes is unnecessary, it will spit out that warning. I try to use the "silent = 1" parameter to prevent those warnings from appearing, but sometimes they sneak through, and in code with repeats, as you see, it can generate a lot. But it is almost always harmless.

[Gordian]

See, this I wasn't certain about. Whether it was just a subcomponent of the changes or all of them. Also thanks for highlighting sphere overlap.

The last point I'd need to address is engine performance with 5E. I'm expecting a lock-up on character creation, especially in ToB. But the 0.5-1sec stutter after I cast a spell (a script seems to run, greying out the spells button) makes it hardly playable. It's not my hardware. This wasn't that problematic in my initial tests or not even observed in fact.

Do you have any idea which mods I could omit to reduce/prevent that?

 

Edit: is there a way to install more than 256 kits with the current EEex?

I can't install the single class kits from FnP for instance with my current setup.

I mean, I don't need them but I could maybe add them to SCS for more variety. (Although they wouldn't know what to do with new spells or new HLAs, I fear)

Glad that IWD>SR for SCS by default by now.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Gordian said:

The last point I'd need to address is engine performance with 5E. I'm expecting a lock-up on character creation, especially in ToB. But the 0.5-1sec stutter after I cast a spell (a script seems to run, greying out the spells button) makes it hardly playable. It's not my hardware.

So, every time you cast a spell with the 5E system, it casts several hundred subspells that you don't see. (Maybe? Maybe a few hundred, maybe a thousand-ish.) What happens is, you start with a bunch of innate abilities under your spells bar, which look like sorcerer spells - 5x Magic Missile, 5x Shield, 4x Acid Arrow, 3x Fireball, etc. Whenever you cast any spell, the following happens:

1. it casts a spell with a few hundred op172 effects to remove all possible 5E innate abilities
2. it casts a spell with an op233 effect to adjust your 'casting slots'
3. it casts several hundred spells, granting you ALL of the innate abilities in the system, in an amount corresponding to your current casting slots.
4. Most of those are blocked; the script that runs in the morning after you sleep is what sets your memorized spells to evade this block
5. Thus, you get all of your memorized spells, in an amount corresponding to your current casting slots.

The result is indistinguishable, in-game, from the way sorcerers cast spells. But there is a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes, which can in some instances cause hiccups. At character generation there might be a pause while the system initializes for the first time. Ditto for the first time you wake up after resting in a given play session. On my old iPad Mini 2 (A7 processor from ~2011, 1GB RAM) this could be about five seconds. On my 2016 MacBook (Intel 2GHz Core i5, 8 GB RAM) it is about one second or less. On my new iPad with an A14 processor, it is less than one second.

Actually casting spells in regular gameplay has never resulted in slowdowns for me, even on the ancient 10-year-old iPad (which is about as powerful as a 15-year-old Intel laptop). The only time I've noticed slowdowns is with the Mana Sorcerer. The system gets slower with 1) more spells in it (adding lots of spell packs means it needs to try to add more spells every time, even if it blocks all the ones you didn't memorize) and 2) more casting slots (since it needs to add more instances of every spell in the system). Instead of just a few spells slots at each level, the Mana Sorcerer can have up to 125 mana points, so the issue is much more extreme with that kit. The Mana Sorcerer can cast as many as 10,000 subspells every time you cast a spell. The behavior I've seen:

• Someone who cheated themselves more spells and more mana points with the Mana Sorcerer saw some pretty severe slowdowns
• On my ancient hardware with a TOB-level Mana Sorcerer but a normal amount of spells and points, I saw noticeable (~0.5 second) slowdowns
• On my ancient hardware with a 5E caster with a 'mere' couple hundred subspells, no noticeable slowdown
• On my laptop and newer iPad, everything runs like butter

There are differences in behavior for different hardware, and for different OSes. The MacOS and iOS games seem to cache some of the spells in RAM, or something (not my area of expertise) because I see a bit of a slowdown once per gaming session and then it it buttery smooth after that. It's possible that different hardware and/or a different OS with a differently-compiled game engine will behave differently. This is way out of my wheelhouse.

tl;dr: you should not be experiencing any problems with the 5E system (which is a fairly mild instance of the system), unless there is some kind of unfortunate combination of aggressive mod loadout and/or anemic hardware and/or particular OS characteristics.

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Gordian said:

I can't install the single class kits from FnP for instance with my current setup.

Really?? I've never gotten even close to 255, even with all the FnP single-class kits. Maybe post your kitllist.2da or kit.ids file at the point of the install before you try FnP?

I'm not aware of a workaround for this. My understanding is that it's not really amenable to workarounds, even of the executable-hacking variety.

Edited January 10, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Gordian]

5E

I knew it was an involved system. I'm curious as to why you couldn't copy the way sorcerers work (never played one myself, I must admit).

I'll give it another test. It working would be a lot of fun, heh. It does seem to work with level one cantrips, curiously. Does going for that pose a problem? I did try with other innate options as well. Btw: how do you determine/edit extra spell slots to memorise in 5E? Do the bonus spells from SoB work?

This time not installing anything that might also touch on or do something like the 5E system.

You can also check my list in the first post if something (apart from Arcanist, RS and maybe Mana Sorcerer) strikes you as problematic in this regard.

 

Kits

It doesn't fail there. It fails at MnG mostly sometimes maybe at FnP multi before clerics, but unsure about the last part. I can do an install and show you the kitlist. I could also have DR early and nonmod kits with it, afaik.

 

edit: kitlist after RR (thus before BardicWonders, TnB, a7sorc and golem, IH Undead, several shaman kits (could drop them), improved archer, WTP and FnP multi) and after complete install without any FnP kits.

KITLIST.2DA

kitlist complete install wo fnp single.2DA

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gordian

[Gordian]

Still, would it be possible to simply add Iron Skins instead of overwriting Mantle?

[subtledoctor]

52 minutes ago, Gordian said:

It does seem to work with level one cantrips, curiously. Does going for that pose a problem?

Nope, Level 1 Cantrips integration is very easy: I just remove the bit where 1st-level arcane spells reduce your casting slots. 

52 minutes ago, Gordian said:

curious as to why you couldn't copy the way sorcerers work

Sorcerers are completed hard-coded to be a class with no multiclass or dual-class options and no way to learn spells. The only way to play around with sorcerer casting in more flexible ways (multiclasses, mage-style preparation, points instead of slots) is to do this. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Gordian]

I thought as much, also vaguely remember reading about it a few years ago.

Currently commenting out some kits to make room for some FnP kits - won't install all either, I think.

[subtledoctor]

Regarding kits: this is one of those cases where selectively not installing some mods is really the best answer. (Ditto regarding players who hit too many spells per level from spell packs.)

Depending on how attached you are to the mods you installed before FnP, I will say that FnP is an easy place to do this. it looks like you're at about 200 kits so far; if you open the d5_fnp_settings.ini file in the Faiths & Powers main mod folder, you will see every single-class kit the mod installs with a ' 1 ' next to it. If there are deities that you don't care as much about, simply change some of those 1s to 0, until you have fewer than 50 1s.  The mod will only install the kits with ' 1 ' so it should keep you under the limit. Could be a quicker/easier way to keep the number low, than combing through mods and trying to comment stuff out or facing the decision to remove mods altogether.

Currently FnP has 33 cleric kits, 13 druid kits, 10 champion kits, 10 zealot kits, and 10 ranger kits, so about 96 altogether. Some of those may also install extra background kits... especially the champions and zealots. Though, maybe not? And if so, they probably shouldn't, they were there for the pre-2.0 engine where you couldn't have evil paladins and rangers in the menus. Huh. I'll double check whether that is happening, and if so how to stop it.

[Gordian]

I already edited the ini file (first thing I did) and went through all the kits to get an idea of which I want to include. Should be fine now.

Also considering dropping shadowadpet, c0warlock and wtp.

I'm trying to find the culprit for my 5E bug, selectively removing mods from this list, starting with the 3 I just mentioned

Spoiler

//divine_remix:100;divine_remix - Cleric Remix
divine_remix:103;divine_remix - Install Silverstar of Selune Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:106;divine_remix - Install Nightcloak of Shar Cleric Kit
divine_remix:107;divine_remix - Install Holy Strategist of the Red Knight Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:109;divine_remix - Install Battleguard of Tempus Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:112;divine_remix - Install Painbearer of Ilmater Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:115;divine_remix - Install Firewalker of Kossuth Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:118;divine_remix - Install Authlim of Iyachtu Xvim Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:121;divine_remix - Install Lorekeeper of Oghma Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:124;divine_remix - Install Heartwarder of Sune Cleric Kit
divine_remix:127;divine_remix - Install Feywarden of Corellon Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:130;divine_remix - Install Strifeleader of Cyric Cleric Kit
//divine_remix:200;divine_remix - Druid Remix
divine_remix:203;divine_remix - Install Oozemaster Druid kit
divine_remix:403;divine_remix - Install Bowslinger Ranger Kit
divine_remix:406;divine_remix - Install Feralan Ranger Kit
//divine_remix:409;divine_remix - Install Forest Runner Ranger Kit
//divine_remix:412;divine_remix - Install Justifier Ranger Kit
//divine_remix:415;divine_remix - Install Wilderness Runner Ranger Kit

BEARWALKER:0;BearWalker -  BEAR WALKER KIT for Enhanced Editions.
C0Warlock:0;Warlock Kit - Warlock Kit

SHADOWADEPT:0;Shadow Magic - Shadow Magic: Main Component
SHADOWADEPT:1;Shadow Magic - Shadow Magic: Shadow Monk monk kit
SHADOWADEPT:2;Shadow Magic - Shadow Magic: Quests and Encounters (BG:EE)
SHADOWADEPT:3;Shadow Magic - Shadow Magic: Enhanced Shade Lord (BG2:EE)

//gives out a lot of warnings
MONASTICORDERS:0;MonasticOrders - Core Revisions
MONASTICORDERS:1;MonasticOrders - Expanded Races for Monks
MONASTICORDERS:2;MonasticOrders - Multiclassing for Monks
MONASTICORDERS:3;MonasticOrders - New Kits for Monks
MONASTICORDERS:4;MonasticOrders - Item Restriction Patch

song_and_silence:0;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Changes to trueclass bards and thieves, and unmodded game kits (required for other components)
song_and_silence:1;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Add new bardic store and thief items
//song_and_silence:2;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Acrobat bard kit
//song_and_silence:3;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Chorister bard kit
song_and_silence:4;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Dirgesinger bard kit
song_and_silence:5;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Luring Piper bard kit
//song_and_silence:6;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Adventurer thief kit
//song_and_silence:7;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Burglar thief kit
//song_and_silence:8;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Soulknife thief kit
//song_and_silence:9;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Sharpshooter thief kit
//song_and_silence:10;Song and Silence: A Mod for Bards and Thieves - Install Shadowdancer thief kit

//MERCENARY:0;Mercenary - Install Mercenary kit for Fighters
MilitiaOfficer:0;Militia Officer - Install Militia Officer kit for Fighters

RR:2;rr - Thief High Level Ability revisions
RR:3;rr - Proper racial adjustments for thieving skills
RR:4;rr - Bard kit revisions
RR:5;rr - Bard High Level Ability revisions
RR:7;rr - Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards
RR:8;rr - Upgradeable Equipment
RR:9;rr - Use PnP thievery potions and prevent their effects from stacking
RR:11;rr - Chosen of Cyric encounter
RR:12;rr - Shadow Thief Improvements
RR:999;rr - BG2-style icons for RR content

BARDICWONDERS:0;BardicWonders - Bardic Wonders: Abettor of Mask Kit
BARDICWONDERS:1;BardicWonders - Bardic Wonders: Dancer Kit
BARDICWONDERS:2;BardicWonders - Bardic Wonders: Storm Drummer Kit
BARDICWONDERS:3;BardicWonders - Bardic Wonders: Troubadour Kit
BARDICWONDERS:4;BardicWonders - Bardic Wonders: Deathsinger Kit
BARDICWONDERS:5;BardicWonders - Bardic Wonders: Items

druidsor:0;druidsor - Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

CDTWEAKS:2240;The Tweaks Anthology - Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table
CDTWEAKS:2250;The Tweaks Anthology - Un-Nerfed Sorcerer Spell Progression Table
CDTWEAKS:2260;The Tweaks Anthology - Un-nerfed table [Blucher]
CDTWEAKS:2270;The Tweaks Anthology - Un-nerfed table [Blucher]
CDTWEAKS:2280;The Tweaks Anthology - Un-nerfed table [Blucher]
CDTWEAKS:2293;The Tweaks Anthology - Use cleric level progression changes with un-nerfed druid spell table [Blucher]

TOMEANDBLOOD:11;Tome and Blood - Rebalanced Spell Schools

TOMEANDBLOOD:1201;Tome and Blood - No Opposition Schools
TOMEANDBLOOD:13;Tome and Blood - Revised Illusionary Clones
TOMEANDBLOOD:14;Tome and Blood - Revised Invisibility and True Seeing
TOMEANDBLOOD:16;Tome and Blood - Improved Identify spell (usable by Arcanist/Multi Sorcerers)
TOMEANDBLOOD:20;Tome and Blood - Revised Dragon Disciples
//TOMEANDBLOOD:25;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Magus
TOMEANDBLOOD:31;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Favored Soul
TOMEANDBLOOD:33;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Sylvan Disciple
//TOMEANDBLOOD:35;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Revenant Disciple
//TOMEANDBLOOD:37;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Amorphous Disciple

//TOMEANDBLOOD:40;Tome and Blood - Revised Specialists  

//TOMEANDBLOOD:51;Tome and Blood - Innate metamagic, learned automatically by everyone
TOMEANDBLOOD:55;Tome and Blood - Metamagic spells, fill sequencers free (usable by Arcanist/Multi Sorcerers)
TOMEANDBLOOD:62;Tome and Blood - Level One Cantrips

//TOMEANDBLOOD:61;Tome and Blood - Innate Cantrips

TOMEANDBLOOD:67;Tome and Blood - Choose-Your-Own Familiar
TOMEANDBLOOD:68;Tome and Blood - Pooky's Mod: Imbue Familiars
TOMEANDBLOOD:71;Tome and Blood - Change spells every level
TOMEANDBLOOD:80;Tome and Blood - Multiclass Sorcerers
//TOMEANDBLOOD:82;Tome and Blood - Mage Kit: Arcanist
//TOMEANDBLOOD:85;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer Kit: Mana Sorcerer

//omit?
B_SPELLS:103;B_Spells - Install New Spells only

A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:0;A7-GolemConstruction - Golem Construction Ability for Spellcasters
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:10;A7-GolemConstruction - Replace original Golem Manual
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:15;A7-GolemConstruction - Improve enemy spellcaster AI
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:20;A7-GolemConstruction - Golems for enemy spellcasters
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:25;A7-GolemConstruction - Greater variety of enemy golem types
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:30;A7-GolemConstruction - Fighter Stronghold golems may continue to serve you
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:35;A7-GolemConstruction - Make golems vulnerable to specific spell effects
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:40;A7-GolemConstruction - Reduce weapon immunities and resistances for constructed golems
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:45;A7-GolemConstruction - Identify all mod items
A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION:50;A7-GolemConstruction - Add "Teleport" ability to golems
A7-CHAOSSORCERER:0;The Chaos Sorcerer: A Wild Magic Kit for Sorcerers - "Chaos Sorcerer" kit
A7-CHAOSSORCERER:30;The Chaos Sorcerer: A Wild Magic Kit for Sorcerers - Add "Primordial Artifacts"
STORMCALLER:0;StormCaller - Storm Caller Shaman Kit
SPIRITWALKER:0;Spiritwalker - Spiritwalker Shaman Kit
SpiritHunter:0;SpiritHunter - Spirit Hunter Shaman Kit
DREAMWALKER:0;Dreamwalker - Dreamwalker Shaman Kit
//IHATEUNDEAD:0;I Hate Undead - Undead Predator (Ranger Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:1;I Hate Undead - Holy Redeemer (Cleric Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:2;I Hate Undead - Deathslayer (Wizard Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:3;I Hate Undead - Undead Hunter Revision (Paladin Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:4;I Hate Undead - Death Tricker (Thief Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:5;I Hate Undead - Burial Defender (Fighter Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:6;I Hate Undead - Grave Mourner (Bard Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:7;I Hate Undead - Circle Enforcer (Druid Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:8;I Hate Undead - Jaheira, the Circle Enforcer
IHATEUNDEAD:9;I Hate Undead - Pallid Mask (Monk Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:10;I Hate Undead - Dreadful Witch (Shaman Kit)
IHATEUNDEAD:11;I Hate Undead - Imprisoned Soul (Sorcerer Kit)

A7#IMPROVEDSHAMANICDANCE:0;Improved Shamanic Dance - Improved Shamanic Dance
A7#IMPROVEDSHAMANICDANCE:10;Improved Shamanic Dance - Expanded Shamanic Dance for high level characters
A7#IMPROVEDSHAMANICDANCE:30;Improved Shamanic Dance - Apply Shamanic Dance improvements to Shaman kits
A7#IMPROVEDSHAMANICDANCE:40;Improved Shamanic Dance - Shaman-specific items

//doesn't check fot EET
//MIH_METAMOD:1;mih_metamod - Running fixes for Aerie in BG1
//MIH_METAMOD:2;mih_metamod - Running fixes for Stone of Askavar
//MIH_METAMOD:4;mih_metamod - Resolve Gavin (BG1) vs. Stone of Askavar mod conflict

Faiths_and_Powers:21;Faiths and Powers - FnP: the Faiths & Powers original sphere system

//Faiths_and_Powers:24;Faiths and Powers - None: no sphere system, just vanilla-style kits

Faiths_and_Powers:31;Faiths and Powers - Install Cleric kits
Faiths_and_Powers:33;Faiths and Powers - Install Druid kits
Faiths_and_Powers:35;Faiths and Powers - Install Paladin kits
Faiths_and_Powers:37;Faiths and Powers - Install Ranger kits
Faiths_and_Powers:80;Faiths and Powers - Apply sphere system

A7#IMPROVEDARCHER:0;Improved Archer Kit - Improved Archer Kit
A7#IMPROVEDARCHER:10;Improved Archer Kit - Add fighter kit: Marksman
A7#IMPROVEDARCHER:20;Improved Archer Kit - Add paladin kit: Bow Knight
A7#IMPROVEDARCHER:30;Improved Archer Kit - Add thief kit: Sharpshooter
A7#IMPROVEDARCHER:100;Improved Archer Kit - Add +4 arrows, bolts and powerful bows to the game

//CHARLATAN:0;Charlatan - Install Charlatan kit for Bards
WILL_TO_POWER:200;Will to Power - Add the Psionicist, rogue/psion
WILL_TO_POWER:300;Will to Power - Add the Soulblade, fighter/psion
WILL_TO_POWER:400;Will to Power - Add the Psypher, ranger/psion
WILL_TO_POWER:500;Will to Power - Add the Cerebremancer, mage/psion
WILL_TO_POWER:900;Will to Power - Dark Sun Mode: Everyone Is a Wild Talent

5E_SPELLCASTING:100;5E Spellcasting - Change All Casters to 5E System
5E_SPELLCASTING:900;5E Spellcasting - Set Bonus Spell Slot Items to Work for 5E Casters

MIGHT_AND_GUILE:200;Might & Guile - Feat System
MIGHT_AND_GUILE:210;Might & Guile - Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards
MIGHT_AND_GUILE:220;Might & Guile - Revised Multiclassing and Multiclass Kits
MIGHT_AND_GUILE:240;Might & Guile - Improved Rangers
MIGHT_AND_GUILE:250;Might & Guile - Revised Berserker and Rage
MIGHT_AND_GUILE:265;Might & Guile - Revised Monk Fists
MIGHT_AND_GUILE:310;Might & Guile - Add the Corsair (fighter kit)

HOUSETWEAKS:6;AionZ's House Rules - House Tweaks: Warrior HLAs

WSR:100;Wizard Slayer Rebalancing - Wizard Slayer kit revision
WSR:200;Wizard Slayer Rebalancing - Wizard Slayer High Level Ability revision
WSR:302;Wizard Slayer Rebalancing - Moderate changes
WSR:999;Wizard Slayer Rebalancing - BG2-style icons for WSR content

REFINEMENTS:11;refinements - Choose which classes get revised HLAs
REFINEMENTS:101;refinements - Fighter HLAs
REFINEMENTS:102;refinements - Barbarian HLAs
REFINEMENTS:103;refinements - Ranger HLAs
REFINEMENTS:104;refinements - Paladin HLAs

REFINEMENTS:105;refinements - Cleric HLAs
REFINEMENTS:106;refinements - Druid HLAs

REFINEMENTS:107;refinements - Monk HLAs
REFINEMENTS:108;refinements - Wizard HLAs
REFINEMENTS:109;refinements - Bard HLAs
REFINEMENTS:110;refinements - Thief HLAs

FNP_MULTICLASS:91;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Druids
FNP_MULTICLASS:92;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Shamans
FNP_MULTICLASS:95;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Cleric kits (install AFTER all other kit mods!!)

 

It seems to be connected to the mage spell book not being reenabled. And it doesn't happen with every char. Ir reliable happens with new ToB chars (and I'm only able to select 1-2 divine spells per level at character creation.

This happens if I pause before the script runs. Sometimes the mage spells are still enabled, but usually not when they end up not working. After this I can only cast divine spells as per 5E. Other times the game crashes even, which is really interesting.

 

Even if I give myself all spells with CTRL+Z, my mage spell book remains greyed out as shown.

 

Everything done in EET:

Yep, works fine in BG2EE but not in ToB. Seems in BG2EE there's more scripts running as in adding Bhaalspawn powers etc. (I do get slayer transformation in ToB though)

 

Edit: after a few tries I went ahead and tried it the other way around: it's the same with this list in ToB, works in BG2ee though.

Spoiler

TOMEANDBLOOD:11;Tome and Blood - Rebalanced Spell Schools

TOMEANDBLOOD:1201;Tome and Blood - No Opposition Schools
TOMEANDBLOOD:13;Tome and Blood - Revised Illusionary Clones
TOMEANDBLOOD:14;Tome and Blood - Revised Invisibility and True Seeing
TOMEANDBLOOD:16;Tome and Blood - Improved Identify spell (usable by Arcanist/Multi Sorcerers)
TOMEANDBLOOD:20;Tome and Blood - Revised Dragon Disciples
TOMEANDBLOOD:31;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Favored Soul
TOMEANDBLOOD:33;Tome and Blood - Sorcerer: Sylvan Disciple
TOMEANDBLOOD:55;Tome and Blood - Metamagic spells, fill sequencers free (usable by Arcanist/Multi Sorcerers)
TOMEANDBLOOD:62;Tome and Blood - Level One Cantrips
TOMEANDBLOOD:67;Tome and Blood - Choose-Your-Own Familiar
TOMEANDBLOOD:68;Tome and Blood - Pooky's Mod: Imbue Familiars
TOMEANDBLOOD:71;Tome and Blood - Change spells every level
TOMEANDBLOOD:80;Tome and Blood - Multiclass Sorcerers
Faiths_and_Powers:31;Faiths and Powers - Install Cleric kits
Faiths_and_Powers:33;Faiths and Powers - Install Druid kits
Faiths_and_Powers:35;Faiths and Powers - Install Paladin kits
Faiths_and_Powers:37;Faiths and Powers - Install Ranger kits
Faiths_and_Powers:80;Faiths and Powers - Apply sphere system
5E_SPELLCASTING:100;5E Spellcasting - Change All Casters to 5E System
5E_SPELLCASTING:900;5E Spellcasting - Set Bonus Spell Slot Items to Work for 5E Casters
FNP_MULTICLASS:91;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Druids
FNP_MULTICLASS:92;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Shamans
FNP_MULTICLASS:95;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Cleric kits (install AFTER all other kit mods!!)

It also doesn't work with just FnP no spheres, 5E and Fnp Multis in ToB. It works with just 5E in ToB (pure C/M works vs Abjurist or Monitor doesn't -> no mage spells.) I also tried switching the order.

Maybe you can try to reproduce this on your system. It works fine in BG2EE but not in ToB, @subtledoctor.

Spoiler

~EET\EET.TP2~ #0 #0 // EET core (resource importation): V13.4
~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #24 // Create a sphere system -> None: no sphere system, just vanilla-style kits: 0.81.1
~5E_SPELLCASTING\5E_SPELLCASTING.TP2~ #0 #100 // Change All Casters to 5E System: 1.2
~FNP_MULTICLASS\FNP_MULTICLASS.TP2~ #0 #95 // Multiclass Cleric kits (install AFTER all other kit mods!!): 0.79.32

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Gordian

[Angel]

17 hours ago, Gordian said:

Hi @Angel and thanks for tuning in! Also thank you so much for the spell list, this helps the spells from other mods --> spheres endeavour substantially. If you have specific ideas which sphere each spell/HLA (if any, as arcane only) should belong to, then let me know.

Nearly every divine spell I added is from an official D&D source book, the only two exceptions being Striking (from the video game D&D: Tower of Doom) and Mass Negative Plane Protection (a tribute to Order of the Stick where the development of this spell is a plot point).  So they should probably have the spheres the books list for them.

17 hours ago, Gordian said:

• Also, do you recommend using your large creatures damage modification? Does it impact pathfinding in any way?

Not that I know of.  Basically what it does is give certain item types (hammers most notably) their P&P alternate damage on large creatures values, and set a flag on certain creature types (dragons, giants, etc.) to actually use this alternate damage.  It was already in the engine (confirmed by Bubb), just not used.

Overall the effect is fairly minor, but it does make larger weapons more effective against large creatures, and small weapons less so.  It's most notable against ogres in early BG1.

17 hours ago, Gordian said:

• And sure ad HLAs: would be neat additions for ToB! I would have to keeper them in now, thus I might end up adding one or two to spheres locally, we'll see. I always use the delay HLAs component, thus I might not be able to learn all of them if I go overboard.

I've taken a quick look yesterday and I seem to have accidentally deleted the code that adds these to the HLA tables.  It should be a fairly simple fix.

17 hours ago, Gordian said:

• Ad Liches from mih_eq: this component did interfere with many mods that wanted to edit lich.itm. I guess SCS wouldn't account for it and Magic Battles Revised (=MBR) wants to change it as well, iirc. I did leave that component out for now. Same goes for +save DC equal to a spell's level, which might make the game a little easy for a caster heavy party. Not sure yet. I did include the one from Tweaks Anthology already. (at the end, for flexibility)

My changes to lich.itm are as follows:
- Add skeletal damage resistance (50% vs. slashing, piercing and missile)
- Add immunity to spell levels as specified in .ini file (normally 1-3), deleting anything above these (vanilla game has 1-5, but SCS deletes these)
- Add turning immunity

As for the saving throw penalties, my change should work with Tweaks's change, but it would make high-level casters very dangerous indeed, which can be either an advantage or a handicap depending on the situation.

17 hours ago, Gordian said:

• The spell.ids sanitisation is desirable.

I mainly added it because it was easy to do and it neatly cleans up some unneeded clutter.  I don't have a desperate need for some extra spell slots. I have some plans to restore Sand Form for which remnants are in the game files (icon files and name/desc strings) but otherwise the Restored Spells component is pretty much complete and will likely not get any big modifications in the future.

My changes work with SCS, I actively test this and write mine to be complementary to SCS.  But I can't guarantee anything for other battle revisions as I don't use them.  It's probably prudent to be wary of combining these, lest you create some glitched or impossible battles.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Angel

[Gordian]

4 hours ago, Angel said:

Nearly every divine spell I added is from an official D&D source book, the only two exceptions being Striking (from the video game D&D: Tower of Doom) and Mass Negative Plane Protection (a tribute to Order of the Stick where the development of this spell is a plot point).  So they should probably have the spheres the books list for them.

Ah, I should even have the source books at hand, been a while though.

4 hours ago, Angel said:

Overall the effect is fairly minor, but it does make larger weapons more effective against large creatures, and small weapons less so.  It's most notable against ogres in early BG1.

Okay, I've added it to the default install. : )

4 hours ago, Angel said:

I've taken a quick look yesterday and I seem to have accidentally deleted the code that adds these to the HLA tables.  It should be a fairly simple fix.

Ah, that's great to hear! I suspected something like this. I'll hold off a bit with my next big test install then, if it's just a quick fix.

4 hours ago, Angel said:

My changes to lich.itm are as follows:

- Add skeletal damage resistance (50% vs. slashing, piercing and missile)
- Add immunity to spell levels as specified in .ini file (normally 1-3), deleting anything above these (vanilla game has 1-5, but SCS deletes these)
- Add turning immunity

As for the saving throw penalties, my change should work with Tweaks's change, but it would make high-level casters very dangerous indeed, which can be either an advantage or a handicap depending on the situation.

Both of these, the second one more so, are tweaks I can only implement after a little playtesting from my side, it might make fights against non-casters fairly trivial in later stages of the game, conversely making higher level enemy mages early very dangerous. (later as well, I suppose). I do like the notion, but I don't want to make my SoS or SoD spells too powerful.

What was your experience from playtesting? Especially when it comes to party vs. non-casters?

 

As I install many mods that add spells, it is a welcome addition. Also glad that you mod with SCS in mind. Sure, the MBR component is experimental (but might even be removable midgame, probably with some issues), but then again, so is my install. I don't mind, or rather: I'm eager, heh.

 

edit: on your metamod: Are the fixes there still relevant for the respective mods?

Edited January 11, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Angel said:

mih_eq: this component did interfere with many mods that wanted to edit lich.itm. I guess SCS wouldn't account for it and Magic Battles Revised (=MBR) wants to change it as well, iirc

MBR only makes sure that Breach can affect creatures with spell-level-based immunities. It clones 4th-level immunity effect to a new 5th-level immunity effect. If MIH removes the 4th-level immunity, then it won’t bother MBR. 

Note, however, that SCS adds 206 immunity vs. a static list of 5th-level spells. I don’t know how that interacts with MIH. And even if SCS doesn’t partially undo MIH’s change, SCS lich AI might be adversely affected if the SCS scripts operate on the assumption of immunity to 4th- and 5th-level spells. 

Note that Spell Rev already implements save penalties for high-level spells, though in a holistic way, with penalties roughly 1/2 the spell level (most 1st-level spells are flat to +2 bonus; most 9th-level spells have about -4 penalty). IIRC SR v3 had more extreme penalties, up to -6, but got some negative feedback on it.

58 minutes ago, Gordian said:

MBR component is experimental (but might even be removable midgame,

You can install MBR at the end, and should be able to remove/reinstall it without negative repercussions. 

[Gordian]

Thanks for the clarification! I was intending to add the lich change (if) then late.

Ah, I wasn't sure whether it did, wanted to check. I think I'm set on save DCs in this case.

MBR is one of the last mods I install, specifically for that reason.