EET Install Order - iteration xyz

[Gordian]

Thanks for your elaborate reply! : )

10 hours ago, Gordian said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

spell_rev:0;spell_rev - Spell Revisions
TomeAndBlood:11;Tome and Blood - Rebalanced Spell Schools
TomeAndBlood:1201;Tome and Blood - No Opposition Schools

Faiths_and_Powers:21;Faiths and Powers - FnP: the Faiths & Powers original sphere system
Faiths_and_Powers:80;Faiths and Powers - Apply sphere system
5E_spellcasting:100;5E Spellcasting - Change All Casters to 5E System
FnP_Multiclass:95;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Cleric kits (install AFTER all other kit mods!!)

 

This install sequence does produce said behaviour for me at least. The second block might suffice even.
I must admit, I mainly tested C/M characters (e.g. Monitor of Azuth but others as well), as that's where the issues compounded. It's not trivial to describe because the behaviour wasn't the same across the tests/installs.

• It only occured with FnP in the mix, as far as I can tell.

Yea, you get the number of memorised spells but not necessarily the ones you chose, 1-2 specific, common ones, if the game copied any innates for said level (else you don't get any) and you see all your known spells. There's also the situation where you only see 2 lvl 1 known spells (CLW, Bless) and nothing else in your entire spell book, coincidentally the same spells you can pick when starting out (I guess populated to ensure there's something to pick from). With SoA/ToB chars I had an empty level 2+ book at character creation.

Some of this can be seen on the screenshots I attached in my initial post.

 

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

FnP actually contains an early version of b_spells within it, that's why they overlap. FnP should not install any of its spells if it already detects them (why it's good to install IWDification before FnP) and I think that holds true for the b_spells stuff. But I don't know, I haven't tried using the independent version of b_spells, I wasn't sure whether it is release-ready.

I am aware of that but curious whether there was documentation available. I'm not sure either, it probably isn't. The spells component seems robust enough, to my naive eyes, that I added it to my list.

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

FnP's HLAs are tied to spheres and thus only install with the sphere system. Note, FnP actually uses a bunch of the Refinements HLAs (directly lifted, with permission) so I would suggest that you either use

• FnP sphere system + FnP HLAs
• no FnP sphere system, and Refinements HLAs

There should be no problem installing Refinements priest HLAs with FnP, only you will not see all of them because FnP generates dozens or hundreds of custom HLA tables according to sphere access. So any HLAs not tied to spheres simply won't be present in any kit's HLA table.

Okay, thanks for the clarification on that!

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Been a while, but that may be intentional. The AC bonus is only supposed to be against melee attacks, not missile (use shield-style for that) so it may not show up in the inventory screen. You need to check the damage-type modifiers in the Record screen to get the whole picture. Alternatively, it might be something like, it applies the AC bonus immediately but then realizes a second later that you equipped a morning star or something in your off-hand, and takes the bonus away. (The full bonus is only for daggers in the off-hand IIRC.) One way or another, SoB's single-weapon and dual-wielding effects take a second or so to sort themselves out every time you change your weapon loadout. So this sort of behavior - see one bonus, then a second later it changes - is what you should in fact be seeing.

Not sure about the bonus spell slot thing... but that might be an effect (like many in my mods) that is applied as a repeating effect, and every time you sleep, and sometimes just by traveling to a new area, the game engine loses track of these and then has to re-apply them after a second or two. So if you wake up and the game is paused you will be likely to see some odd stuff. But just like SoB's weapon styles, if you let the game clock run for a second or two things should normalize.

I see ad AC. IIRC it happened instantly in the inventory screen, my mod list did differ quite a bit back then, I will be wary of the results in the record screen.

They are repeating effects, similar to other stat bonuses, if I'm not mistaken. The reality was, that the char could prepare an extra spell but "lost it" on rest - not just for a few seconds. Effectively losing one slot to work with, it often wasn't the spell in the last slot either. Pretty sure that I have seen this recently as well. - Will keep track of that.

Also the first time since ages that I'll be using your armour revision, will be an interesting change.

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

 

You can also copy that document out to your desktop and rename it to "fnp_sphere_list.tpa" and tinker with it at your leisure... then drop it into your override folder before you do your mod installation and choose "custom sphere system" in the FnP installer and it will use your modified version.

 

Thanks for the comprehensive guide and your time! I had parts of it down already, but haven't delved into it yet as FnP seems to a be a roadblock at the moment. It might be worthwhile implementing it and probably not too time consuming either.

Would it be possible to automate the process? Maybe having a unified way of tagging a mod's spells with certain affixes such as "Protection", level etc. and FnP/similar systems in the future picking up on it?

 

Currently doing a 2.6 install with a 2.5 exe for the old EEex version (thus Olvyn Spells, poisons from Epic Thieving and a broader EEex functionality for the time being) with FnP commented out. I think I'll lose an Invisibility/Sanctuary opcode and crit stacking(?), but that should be more or less fine (with 2.5 I would miss out on SotSC, it seems). Also I'll put EEex (and mods that depend on it) at the end of the install in case something goes heavily awry on an otherwise working install.

Updated the install order in my post accordingly. (There's a lot of room for improvement in the NPCs and tweaks sections at least.)

Btw: D5 random tweaks' components which make certain spells ignore MR won't install for me (they don't show up as errors in the logs, as I've removed them), could be many things - not something I'm keen on pursuing right now.

 

Ah, on a side note: Would you recommend tinkering with SCS to get AI that uses IWD spells?

Apparently beholders are behaving weirdly with their antimagic rays, wondering whether that's related to the new opcodes. Still something I need to read up on.

 

Good luck in your other - i.e. real - worldly endeavours and no rush! ; )

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Gordian

[jastey]

10 hours ago, Gordian said:

Thanks a lot for the info! I was not aware of the situation until a few days ago, thanks to Discord I am now.

Thanks for considering and switching to the original Balduran's Seatower mod, it's appreciated.

[subtledoctor]

15 hours ago, Gordian said:

Currently doing a 2.6 install with a 2.5 exe for the old EEex version (thus Olvyn Spells, poisons from Epic Thieving and a broader EEex functionality for the time being) with FnP commented out. I think I'll lose an Invisibility/Sanctuary opcode

Out of curiosity, what is this invisibility/sanctuary thing you are speaking of? Some kind of EEex function?

[Grammarsalad]

22 hours ago, Gordian said:

Another thing on B_spells from @Grammarsalad: the current master on github seems problematic. Even if you fix the unclosed comment, it still won't install the additional spells for me. It does so on the earlier version. I really like the %hp heal idea but I think it's not implemented in your revisions component as of yet. Also there is an overlap between B_spells and FnP. Is there documentation to the degree of overlap? Also considering Refinements: Cleric and Druid HLAs and FnP overlap?

Would it be feasible to just install the new spells and HLAs from FnP without adding the sphere system? (In case I don't manage to weave the other spells into the system.)

I really need to update this one. Sorry, I've been working on a crafting mod these days (was originally going to update the crafting component of TnB, but it's become an independent downtime mod of it's own). I strongly recommend you only install the release version atm. 

The master branch of B_spells is not stable at all, unfortunately. My plan is to do the 1.0 of the downtime mod and then update b_spells with more content and with compatibility in mind.

I don't think that right now b_spells is compatible with fnp, and that's my fault. I haven't been keeping up to date with fnp and the code intimidates me, lol.

@subtledoctor, are you pushing your updates to the UA version? If so, I can look into updating/bug fixing the spells.

 

[Gordian]

I was referring to this, but haven't taken my time reading through it properly yet. As you were part of the discussion you may know the answer to your question. Might not be handled by an opcode either. From what I gather, using the 2.5 exe on a 2.6 install would result in losing a few functions the updated files rely on. Might be minor but still.

I settled for 2.6 after all (with a 2.5 install on the side), as I would miss out on SotSC otherwise.

I did manage to get everything running with FnP commented out, but: the engine is bogged down quite a bit on this big install with 5E. Getting 0.5-1s stutters after every spell cast. Thus I opted out of that as well for the time being, the installs running as I write this. The setup went fine on test installs but something is slowing the performance down substantially on a full install, sadly.

BTW: did you end up "telling" SCS to use IWD spells for its Smarter Priests component and testing it a bit? Sure sounds interesting, if still applicable and not implemented by now.

 

Oh, no worries, Grammarsalad. I'm using the release version of course (although I tested the master one a bit, heh). I do like your ideas/direction with healing for instance and how you add new facets/depth to low level spells. I'm looking forward to the next update! : )

Edited January 9, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

16 hours ago, Gordian said:

spell_rev:0;spell_rev - Spell Revisions
TomeAndBlood:11;Tome and Blood - Rebalanced Spell Schools
TomeAndBlood:1201;Tome and Blood - No Opposition Schools

Faiths_and_Powers:21;Faiths and Powers - FnP: the Faiths & Powers original sphere system
Faiths_and_Powers:80;Faiths and Powers - Apply sphere system
5E_spellcasting:100;5E Spellcasting - Change All Casters to 5E System
FnP_Multiclass:95;Faiths and Powers Multiclass - Multiclass Cleric kits (install AFTER all other kit mods!!)

 

16 hours ago, Gordian said:

This install sequence does produce said behaviour for me at least.

Not what you want to hear, but I just installed these onto BG2EE v2.5.16 and I tested with a cleric of Lathander, a cleric of Tyr, and a fighter/cleric of Tyr, and a cleric/mage of Azuth, and everything works perfectly. All the right spells populated the spellbooks, all prepared spells became castable after sleeping, and focus spells are functioning well.*

I don't have BG2EE v2.6, or EET. I guess will try on my BGEE 2.6 game. (Testing is a bit more annoying there, just because you start at level 1... easier to test on BG2 since you start at mid levels and can more quickly see what's happening.)

* Maybe this isn't explicit, but the 5E mod changes the way focus-access spells work in the FnP sphere system. In the normal Vancian casting system, they are added to your spellbook one level below where they usually appear. (These are, in actuality, different spells by the same name... but behind the scenes they end up casting the regular spell.) But with the 5E system these do not go into your spellbook and they are not cast 1 level lower. Instead, they are always available to cast, alongside whatever you prepare. So consider a cleric of Tyr which has focus access to the sphere of Protection:

• With normal casting, you can cast Negative Plane Protection as a 1st-level spell (but you must use a 1st-level spell slot to memorize it)
• With 5E casting NPP is a 2nd level spell but you do not need to prepare it; if you only prepare Chant and Cure Moderate Wounds at 2nd level, after resting you will be able to cast Chant, Cure Moderate Wounds, and Negative Plane Protection.

If i have time I'll run some tests on BGEE v2.6. All I can think right now is that either the 2.6 engine or EEex is somehow throwing sand in the gears...

Edited January 9, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Gordian]

Interesting, I have to wait for the installs to finish anyways, can test a bit. ; )

I did try on 2.5 and 2.6 but EET only. (only dlc merger on BGEE) - no EEex installed yet.

I can redownload the updated mods again - I do get warnings when installing FnP on a vanilla install with earlier and current version, iirc. They should be in the log in the first post.

I'll attach a txt with the warnings on a clean 2.6 EET install (without SR(R) this time) - redownloaded current releases.
Mostly spells that couldn't be altered.

Warnings.txt

Edited January 9, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

16 hours ago, Gordian said:

Would it be possible to automate the process? Maybe having a unified way of tagging a mod's spells with certain affixes such as "Protection", level etc. and FnP/similar systems in the future picking up on it?

Well, that's why I made it so you can keep your own copy and drop it into your override folder - you can evolve the document over time, keep adding whatever spells from wherever, and it will always work.

Alternatively, if someone has done some of the legwork and has filenames for spells from various spellpacks and which sphere they should be in, I can just add it to the main FnP list. The system works fine with missing spells, so the list can encompass any and all spellpacks, and players could pick and choose the ones they like. I just don't have the time to run down different spell filenames and what they do and decide which sphere they should be in. (If modders like @Angel or OlvynChuru want to send me a list of divine spell filenames and what they do, they can get me this information via PM or in the FnP thread, and I can add it that way as well.)

15 minutes ago, Grammarsalad said:

are you pushing your updates to the UA version? If so, I can look into updating/bug fixing the spells.

I have been avoiding doing that because when I look at my fork on Github it says "This branch is 89 commits ahead, 131 commits behind UnearthedArcana:master" and I'm scared of overwriting something you did in those 131 commits.

I could pop my v79 version over as the new UA master, and give it a new v81 version number and of course all those v80 commits would still be there so anything from v80 that I overwrite with v81 could be put back into the new v81. I don't know if that would be a ton of work, or inefficient, or whatever, since I don't have a good handle on what the differences are. But if you want me to do that I'd be happy to, then you would have write access to all my recent stuff and you could do what you like with it. (FWIW I'm not planning to add anything else to FnP, aside from the odd compatibility update to make sure it works with my other stuff.)

14 minutes ago, Gordian said:

I was referring to this, but haven't taken my time reading through it properly yet.

Ah. We've taken care of that stuff in the SR 4b19 commits on Github, but the master there is not installable at the moment and I'm not sure why. I can probably pretty easily write up a hotfix to add it to 4b18.

[subtledoctor]

30 minutes ago, Gordian said:

I'll attach a txt with the warnings on a clean 2.6 EET install

Glanced at it, nothing there looks out of place.

[Gordian]

Just retested with and without SRR and everything works fine on CM (tested in BG1 and BG2). Perhaps one of the old mod files was a master instead of a release? Possible. But still.. hm.

As it so happens one of my installs is right before this block, I can test it in a quasi heavily modded setting.

If it everything ends up working and not stuttering, I'll get to adding the spells to spheres and documenting it.

I'll omit b_spells and DR spells for the time being, let's see. : )

Will take a bit though, mih_sp is a longer install and I need to create backups.

 

Ah, okay. A pity it doesn't install as of now - maybe a hotfix is a good idea, nothing crucial (for me at least).

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gordian

[Grammarsalad]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I have been avoiding doing that because when I look at my fork on Github it says "This branch is 89 commits ahead, 131 commits behind UnearthedArcana:master" and I'm scared of overwriting something you did in those 131 commits.

Please don't be.  I have a backup of everything if the worst happens, but I really don't think that the worst will happen.  That is, I don't think any of those alterations are relevant anymore (I've updated B_Spells quite a bit since then, and those changes are the most relevant).  I will just update that build (I'll download it again for any update the day I reupload it) one spell or one 'batch' of spells at a time, so I'll keep up with whatever you are doing (as long as you don't mind keeping those few changes I make--it won't be anything systemic, just spell updates).  

[Gordian]

I was able to reproduce the bug on my big install. C/M: arcane spells were fine, divine spell book was fine, but memorisation led to about 4 spells total over various levels. Jaheira only had about 6 spells in all of her spell book at level 20 - but this is a known issue with a workaround, no?. Install order form first post up to FnP multiclass.

[Sam.]

@Gordian

I've been looking through your list of mods for inspiration on my next EET install.  What is MIH_EQ?

[Gordian]

@Angel's Made in Heaven Encounters and Quests found here, there are 4 mods in total and a metamod on github. Really great mods overall. Just be aware that their install time is quite long, so if you're at stage of an install where you need to fix incompatibilities etc, you might want to omit them until you're done. Same goes for SCS I guess. His spell mod offers epic spells as HLAs, they do install but you don't get to choose them (need to be 25+ as per mod files but still nothing). I might work them into the my local sphere system if I find the time. So that they see use and needn't be keepered.

Apart from that I haven't found any issues so far. They even sport configuration options.

Glad that my list could serve as inspiration! : )

@subtledoctor: I will fiddle around with the sphere system to accommodate the new spells and if possible HLAs as well, I think. To add new HLAs I would need to edit lib\hlas.tpa, right?

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gordian

[subtledoctor]

57 minutes ago, Gordian said:

To add new HLAs I would need to edit lib\hlas.tpa, right?

That file just does the work of actually installing the spell files for FnP's HLAs. If another mod adds HLA spells and you want to all them to the sphere system, you need to edit faiths_and_powers/spheres/hlas/[sphere]/hlas_[sphere].txt. These files for each sphere just have a couple lines identical to what you would find in a normal HLA table, with the same column format (see LUPR0.2da in the game files for reference). Add a line for the new HLA spell with the appropriate entries (NUM_ALLOWED, PREREQUISITE, etc.) and it will be incorporated into the sphere system.

(If you want to actually use COPY etc. code to add new HLA spells, then you could do that in /lib/hlas.tpa. But if MIH is already putting the spells into the game, this is not necessary.)