Proposed: Longer melee ranges for large creatures

[polytope]

16 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

The dragons in BG2 are huge compared to people, suitably dramatic in a game that shipped at 800x600 resolution 20 years ago. Their selection circle is even bigger than their somewhat slender animations, meaning that with a range value of 1 on their natural weapons, they can strike any target more or less within the apparent visual range of their animation's claws. And with such a big selection circle, they can be in 'contact' with many enemies at once, so all those enemies are in danger of being hit. So far so good for the dragons.

The problem lies with the ability of those enemies to strike the dragon in return. Anyone with range 0 daggers can freely stab a dragon whenever they are near tht big selection circle, which is actually kind of far away from the dragon's body. So the choice made by the devs about selection circle and weapon range, which is reasonable on its face, ends of being a liability for some of these creatures.

Unfortunately this makes me think the best solution is to both reduce the selection circle size and extend the weapon range of these creatures. That way someone with a dagger or a sword will have to get well inside the reach of the dragon's claws in order to strike; which would nicely reflect the narrative of all manner of fantasy stories about heros battling large beasts.

It's my experience that the entire party can surround and strike a creature with a default (human) sized circle. Weapon range is extended if striking from the diagonal position (i.e. 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, 10:30 on a clock face bearing) relative to those directly above, below or to each side (3, 6, 9, 12).

I don't think it really matters that a dragon can be "mobbed" in this fashion, you could still shower it with missile weapons and spells if it had a smaller "hitbox", besides it seems thematically appropriate to take one down in a team effort and most summons (apart from gated Planetars and Elelmental Princes, not sure about SR summons) aren't effective against dragons anyway because of their exceptionally low AC.

There is the deeper problem that since very high level characters can 1vs1 dragons they are obviously not individually a challenge to very high level parties, which is how they are usually encountered late game unfortunately.

About the range of dragon attacks, I'm fine with it being equal to a PC with a two handed weapon, but do not think it should be the greatest of any monster. Why? Because a dragon attacks with claws and bite thus inevitably getting its vulnerable head, neck and limbs close to its intended victim. Maximum melee range should probably be for Fire Giants, the largest weapon using creature, and secondly for Mariliths.