Some General Feedback After Playing for Several Months on a Fully Cranked SCS

[boof]

Some of these are bugs and odd behaviours, some are just my opinion as a player seeking a more challenging game (as I would assume most of us playing this mod would be) and random observations.

I've played a ton in the last many months on a fully cranked SCS (through fine-tune dialogue) and double damage on, but have been slowing a down a bit lately, so I decided while some of these memories are still with me, I'd share them.

 

• Enemy priests casting circle of bones works against them. I have never, ever once been concerned about an enemy priest's circle of bones. In fact, the opposite. It's more like, "Oh good, he put put circle of bones. Time to move out of sight and clean up everything else before dealing with him." It would be overpowered for the player to allow movement with this spell, so I suggest it be removed from ever entering enemy priests' spellbooks or precasts.
• Entropy shield has no visual on enemies. I don't know what the technical reason for this is, it's just something that's a little bit annoying, that's all. It would be nice if there was some visual indicator.
• Speaking of Entropy Shield, it seems to still be removable by remove magic, as long as remove magic is not cast at the priest with the shield. I've noticed this happen mostly with demons (a Balor will cast remove magic on someone nearby, and fully dispel the priest with entropy shield, but will never cast remove magic if the priest is there solo with entropy shield up). Not sure what the intended behaviour here is; are demons using a slightly different version of dispel that simply wasn't accounted for when coding entropy shield? Or are demons intended to be able to bust it? In which case, why do they never cast remove magic when facing the priest solo?
• Precast aoe spells like incendiary cloud hurt enemy more than player. Maybe this catches some players that like to do dangerous encounters unbuffed off guard, but realistically from my experience, any mage that's cast a spell like incendiary cloud as a precast and also had allies in close proximity, did way more harm to his friends than my party.
• Enemies don't change targets when attacking members with divine protection/greater divine protection. Setting aside the fact that DP and GDP are beyond stupidly overpowered even without this AI hiccup for the moment, this is something that really needs a fix, so that it at least works as protection from magical weapons, where enemies will change targets once they see they're doing nothing to you.
• Temple dispel should be high enough level to always work. Don't known if this is really SCS's domain, but I may as well bring it up here. As it is, temple dispel is pointless (believe it uses whatever the selected character's priest level is, which of course unless it's a priest, is going to be 0). This can be quite a problem in no reload runs when it comes to getting polymorphed.
• The painting room in Spellhold has all the creatures that can do some kind of teleport attack you once you start combat, before any of their doors are opened. So you walk in, start the fight with the yuan-ti, and before you know it you have the Ulitharid and Noble Djinni on you too. Doesn't seem intended given the context of the area, but if it is, fine.
• Kangaxx and WK demilich need a fix so they cast Trap the Soul between casts, as the readme states they should. There are some temporary fixes that a few helpful people have posted on the forum, but yeah, don't forget these guys in future versions! Also making them anything that isn't a conjurer or invoker seems like a waste of an epic encounter. My current Kangaxx is a conjurer and the madness caused by summoning a planetar, several Balors and even more lesser demons back to back to back, all while popping off Trap the Souls, is so hilariously dangerous and fun.

 

A few spell grievances:

• Create boneguard is super weak. That it's a level 9 spell is embarrassing. I wouldn't use this spell if it was at level 6, probably not even at level 5. I as a player would never use it, and it's honestly a big disappointment or a huge relief when I see an enemy cast it (depending on your perspective - challenge vs survival), as it's basically a wasted level 9 slot. Spell needs a huge buff, a BIG level demotion, or at least taken away from enemies having access to it. If the player wants to roleplay some sort of necromancer bonelord, fine, but give the poor AI a break and get this shit out of their spellbooks.
• Divine protection/Greater divine protection are ridiculous spells in general. I know the SCS philosophy is to "play fair" but I think this is one instance where the cast time for the player should be at least 7, while staying at 1 for enemies. Having full invulnerability at 1 cast time, and instant with amulet of power is mind bogglingly overpowered, especially considering the sheer volume of these spells a priest can pack. This just barely starts to chip away at this ludicrous spell, but it's something.

 

That's all that's coming to mind right now. I've enjoyed the mod a ton and appreciate the work you've put into it DavidW.

My only real grief with it, as a no reload player, are the evocation sequencers. Were it not for them, I'd probably be reinstalling the mod every few runs to keep things more interesting!

I might add more here if anything springs to mind later.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Added later:

Dumping some more feedback.
This will more or less just be a random collection of notes I've made as I've played over the months, along with some suggestions.

- Mages are casting spell thrust against priests with entropy shield. At first I thought they were trying to remove the spell shield effect from impervious sanctity of mind, but I've consistently seen them casting it on just entropy shield. This of course does nothing, as spell thrust removes lvl 5 and below protections, and entropy shield is a lvl 6 spell.

- Continuing with entropy shield, mages regularly and repeatedly cast missile type spells at priests that have this buff. Spells like magic missiles, Melf's acid arrows and others. Entropy shield gives you immunity to missiles. This results in a lot of wasted actions on the enemy mages' part.

- Speaking of entropy shield, this is another spell that went way overboard on how much power it adds to the players' hands. I can understand its need for the sake of enemy priests, but what it does for the player is so over the top. Just to go over it, it gives: 50% all res, 6 AC, 2 all saves, immunity to missile attacks/spells, and protection from remove magic/breach. All in one spell. If this spell did ONLY ONE of any of those things (save for maybe the missile immunity, though that too can be very situationally useful) it would be worth picking up. Something to think about.

- Spell shield and Impervious sanctity of mind provide indefinite protection against mind flayer ballistic attacks and beholder anti-magic ray attacks.

- Mages continue to cast confusion/chaos  on to party members that have the exaltation buff.

- Mages will repeatedly try to cast sleep on characters that have dual-classed at level 4 or below, but have reached level 5 and above (thus becoming immune to sleep).

- The AI does not seem to know how to use the spell Mordenkainen's Force Blade. It is a spell that summons a magical weapon in your hand, but the AI uses it as if it was a targetable damage spell, trying to cast it over and over. Suggest removing the spell from enemy spell books, unless the AI fix is easy.

- Suggest removing or greatly decreasing occurrence of the Control Undead spell in enemy spell books. I've often seen enemy level 7 spell slots jam packed with this useless spell.

- There seems to a weird preference for the AI mages to use low level spells, especially during time stops. The number of times I've seen an enemy spam magic missiles, chromatic orbs, shouts and other garbage at me while having very solid high level spells of similar damage types available is really just plain old disappointing.

- I'd like to suggest an increase occurrence of the SI: Abjuration precast. Parties with Haer'Dalis, Keldorn, and even a slightly higher level cleric begin to trivialize all mage encounters with their dispels. SI:Abjuration will at least give them an extra round of screen time.

- While the randomized spells on install do add some flavour to generic and low level encounters throughout the game, please consider making pre-set/hand picked spell books for the truly climactic encounters. At least for the top end difficulty settings. When half my liches come packing and spamming suffocates, bone guards, mordenkainen's force blades and control undeads, it is just... so lame. My previous install's Kangaxx spammed demon summons. Between that, the dispels and trap the souls (trap the soul also needs to be fixed by the way) it was super chaotic and fun. My current install he casts a few horrid wiltings and like 5 suffocates, and then transitions to chromatic orbs and cloud kills. So disappointing, and reinstalling the mod over and over again until I get a lucky high percentage on the high level mages not having trash spells is not something I'm up for.

- On a similar note, I've noticed that "invoker" type high level mages never come with a planetar. I can understand having them have a preference for some of the other HLAs first, but to never give them one, regardless of how high level they are? The difficulty difference between fighting a mage that comes with a planetar (every type except invoker) and one that doesn't is enormous. It's not a flavour or a "mixing it up" type of thing. A third/half the high level mages in my current install seem to be invokers with no planetars. Kind of a snooze. Especially paired with the issue I went over above, where they're more than likely going to end up spamming shouts, magic missiles and other low level nonsense at me.

- Speaking of high level casters, I think the game is in dire need of more high level clerics. The number of high level mages you encounter in the game (primarily SoA) is in a pretty solid spot. On the other hand, you will see just about zero high level clerics. How many times do we see a Deva or an Implosion get cast on us throughout the trilogy? Just about never. I suggest bumping some clerics up so we at least see the occasional priest HLA in SoA (while being careful not to blanket increase levels and overpower druids. Seeing druid HLAs while doing the druid grove would not be a good time.)

 

I think that's all I've got for now.
If I had to pick one thing to be changed for the future, it would be a hand-picked spell book - or several variations of spell books if you'd like to maintain some level of randomness between installs - for high level mages. Having lame and weak climactic encounters is really a downer.

----------------------------------------------------

- Casters try to cast sleep on lower level skeleton summons repeatedly.

Edited June 30, 2023 by boof

[Guest Morgoth]

Cool feedback. DP and GDP stands for?

[StummvonBordwehr]

2 hours ago, Guest Morgoth said:

Cool feedback. DP and GDP stands for?

Divine Protection and Greater Divine Protection

[DavidW]

This is helpful, thanks.

On basic design-principle grounds I can't have different casting times for players and enemies, but I'll take a broader look at DP/GDP.

[boof]

Dumping some more feedback.
This will more or less just be a random collection of notes I've made as I've played over the months, along with some suggestions.

- Mages are casting spell thrust against priests with entropy shield. At first I thought they were trying to remove the spell shield effect from impervious sanctity of mind, but I've consistently seen them casting it on just entropy shield. This of course does nothing, as spell thrust removes lvl 5 and below protections, and entropy shield is a lvl 6 spell.

- Continuing with entropy shield, mages regularly and repeatedly cast missile type spells at priests that have this buff. Spells like magic missiles, Melf's acid arrows and others. Entropy shield gives you immunity to missiles. This results in a lot of wasted actions on the enemy mages' part.

- Speaking of entropy shield, this is another spell that went way overboard on how much power it adds to the players' hands. I can understand its need for the sake of enemy priests, but what it does for the player is so over the top. Just to go over it, it gives: 50% all res, 6 AC, 2 all saves, immunity to missile attacks/spells, and protection from remove magic/breach. All in one spell. If this spell did ONLY ONE of any of those things (save for maybe the missile immunity, though that too can be very situationally useful) it would be worth picking up. Something to think about.

- Spell shield and Impervious sanctity of mind provide indefinite protection against mind flayer ballistic attacks and beholder anti-magic ray attacks.

- Mages continue to cast confusion/chaos  on to party members that have the exaltation buff.

- Mages will repeatedly try to cast sleep on characters that have dual-classed at level 4 or below, but have reached level 5 and above in their active class (thus becoming immune to sleep).

- The AI does not seem to know how to use the spell Mordenkainen's Force Blade. It is a spell that summons a magical weapon in your hand, but the AI uses it as if it was a targetable damage spell, trying to cast it over and over. Suggest removing the spell from enemy spell books, unless the AI fix is easy.

- Suggest removing or greatly decreasing occurrence of the Control Undead spell in enemy spell books. I've often seen enemy level 7 spell slots jam packed with this useless spell.

- There seems to a weird preference for the AI mages to use low level spells, especially during time stops. The number of times I've seen an enemy spam magic missiles, chromatic orbs, shouts and other garbage at me while having very solid high level spells of similar damage types available is really just plain old disappointing.

- I'd like to suggest an increased occurrence of the SI: Abjuration precast. Parties with Haer'Dalis, Keldorn, and even just a slightly higher level cleric begin to trivialize all mage encounters with their dispels. SI:Abjuration will at least give them an extra round of screen time.

- While the randomized spells on install do add some flavour to generic and low level encounters throughout the game, please consider making pre-set/hand picked spell books for the truly climactic encounters. At least for the top end difficulty settings. When half my liches come packing and spamming suffocates, bone guards, mordenkainen's force blades and control undeads, it is just... so lame. My previous install's Kangaxx spammed demon summons. Between that, the dispels and trap the souls (trap the soul also needs to be fixed by the way) it was super chaotic and fun. My current install he casts a few horrid wiltings and like 5 suffocates, and then transitions to chromatic orbs and cloud kills. So disappointing, and reinstalling the mod over and over again until I get a lucky high percentage on the high level mages not having trash spells is not something I'm up for.

- On a similar note, I've noticed that "invoker" type high level mages never come with a planetar. I can understand having them have a preference for some of the other HLAs first, but to never give them one, regardless of how high level they are? The difficulty difference between fighting a mage that comes with a planetar (every type except invoker) and one that doesn't is enormous. It's not a flavour or a "mixing it up" type of thing. A third/half the high level mages in my current install seem to be invokers with no planetars. Kind of a snooze. Especially paired with the issue I went over above, where they're more than likely going to end up spamming shouts, magic missiles and other low level nonsense at me.

- Speaking of high level casters, I think the game is in dire need of more high level clerics. The number of high level mages you encounter in the game (primarily SoA) is in a pretty solid spot. On the other hand, you will see just about zero high level clerics. How many times do we see a Deva or an Implosion get cast on us throughout the trilogy? Just about never. I suggest bumping some clerics up so we at least see the occasional priest HLA in SoA (while being careful not to blanket increase levels and overpower druids. Seeing druid HLAs while doing the druid grove would not be a good time.)

 

I think that's all I've got for now.
If I had to pick one thing to be changed for the future, it would be a hand-picked spell book - or several variations of spell books if you'd like to maintain some level of randomness between installs - for high level mages. Having lame and weak climactic encounters is really a downer.

Edited June 21, 2023 by boof

[jmerry]

31 minutes ago, boof said:

Spell shield and Impervious sanctity of mind provide indefinite protection against mind flayer ballistic attacks and beholder anti-magic ray attacks.

Both of these attacks are level zero effects of the SPELLATTACK type, which makes spell shield effects absorb them without expending the shield. I have a tweak for the anti-magic rays; either removing the type so they go through spell shields, or increasing the level to 10 so they use up the shield in one hit.

In the case of ballistic attacks, it's clear that the type is wrong; they should be either OFFENSIVEDAMAGE or no secondary type.

37 minutes ago, boof said:

Mages will repeatedly try to cast sleep on characters that have dual-classed at level 4 or below, but have reached level 5 and above in their active class (thus becoming immune to sleep).

Surprisingly easy to fix, actually. Here's the ssl script block for using Sleep:

IF TRIGGER
	IgnoreBlock(Demivrgvs)
	TargetBlock(PCsInReverseOrder)
	TargetBlock(EnemiesInOrderShort)
	TriggerBlock(MR|Sleep|Enemy|MinorGlobe)
	!CheckStatGT(scstarget,4,Level)
	CheckStatGT(scstarget,0,SAVEVSSPELL)
	!StateCheck(scstarget,STATE_SLEEPING)
THEN DO
	Combine()
	Action(SpellArea,WIZARD_SLEEP)
END

The catch is in that level check; the "Level" stat is the character's first level - fighter for a fighter/cleric such as Anomen, mage for a mage/thief such as Nalia, and so on. There's a specific trigger for checking levels which works better; it uses average levels for multiclass characters. Still not perfect - I don't think there's an easy way to check actual HD numbers in a script - but better. The replacement for that line would be

	!LevelGT(scstarget,4)

Color Spray has the same issue, by the way. The AI just uses it less often.

[boof]

Cool stuff, thanks. I have the fixes to a lot of the things I listed - your spell shield fix being one of them - but just thought I'd outline it here so we can maybe get it fixed within SCS itself one day.

[DavidW]

On 6/21/2023 at 3:06 PM, jmerry said:

The catch is in that level check; the "Level" stat is the character's first level - fighter for a fighter/cleric such as Anomen, mage for a mage/thief such as Nalia, and so on. There's a specific trigger for checking levels which works better; it uses average levels for multiclass characters. Still not perfect - I don't think there's an easy way to check actual HD numbers in a script - but better. The replacement for that line would be

	!LevelGT(scstarget,4)

Color Spray has the same issue, by the way. The AI just uses it less often.

Good catch, thank you - but unless I'm missing something, it's more reliable just to check all three level stats.