Lore justification in Bhaalspawn saga for not allowing Aasimar/Drow charnames

[RoyalProtector]

Just trying to get a sense of the justification, I don't remember enough details to be sure.

Okay, so as far as aasimar, I suppose it's not really plausible, because then it would mean that Alianna (charname's mother) was a half-celestial, which are always good-aligned, which clashes with the fact that she was a devoted disciple of Bhaal who bore his children.

As far as drow... I think I need more explanation. It's not just appearance, I imagine, which would normally cause trouble for a drow on the surface (you might as well roleplay being an albino drow -- aka szarkai -- that blends with other elves normally). What am I missing from BG2EE that would make a drow charname unlikely or problematic lore-wise/plot-wise?

Cheers.

Edited March 2 by RoyalProtector

[jmerry]

Nothing, really. I've even seen a fanfic with a drow as the Bhaalspawn protagonist.

But. Every other drow character we meet in the series was raised in the Underdark, as part of that evil drow culture. Some embraced it and some rejected it, but all were shaped by it. A surface-raised drow would be something entirely different. And if you want to do justice to a character concept like that in the leading role, a game like this just isn't flexible enough to satisfy.

[Trouveur80]

46 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

Just trying to get a sense of the justification, I don't remember enough details to be sure.

Okay, so as far as aasimar, I suppose it's not really plausible, because then it would mean that Alianna (charname's mother) was a half-celestial, which are always good-aligned, which clashes with the fact that she was a devoted disciple of Bhaal who bore his children.

As far as drow... I think I need more explanation. It's not just appearance, I imagine, which would normally cause trouble for a drow on the surface (you might as well roleplay being an albino drow -- aka szarkai -- that blends with other elves normally). What am I missing from BG2EE that would make a drow charname unlikely or problematic lore-wise/plot-wise?

Cheers.

For drow, the readme states than it's because of BG2 chapter 5. You're suppose to not be a drow during this part, all the dialogs clearly state you're disguised as one and could be find out.

[RoyalProtector]

14 minutes ago, jmerry said:

a game like this just isn't flexible enough to satisfy.

Probably. Unless someone wants to make a mod to accommodate this.

6 minutes ago, Trouveur80 said:

all the dialogs clearly state you're disguised as one and could be find out

This part is a minor detail that could be tweaked, but then, it's out of the scope of this mod.

Edited March 2 by RoyalProtector

[DavidW]

4 hours ago, Trouveur80 said:

For drow, the readme states than it's because of BG2 chapter 5. You're suppose to not be a drow during this part, all the dialogs clearly state you're disguised as one and could be find out.

It’s this. The plot of chapter 5 of BG2 revolves around the fact that you are not drow but need to infiltrate their city. Having a drow PC breaks that plot hard. Of course you could change the plot, but that’s way out of scope for ToF.

[RoyalProtector]

6 minutes ago, DavidW said:

The plot of chapter 5 of BG2 revolves around the fact that you are not drow but need to infiltrate their city.

I get it, but isn't that a minor part of the plot? If you were a drow already, then, the only part that would need to be tweaked is the matter of whether you require to be disguised by Adalon or not, I think?

EDIT: Well, and a bunch of dialogs referencing your party or CHARNAME not being drow I guess. I'm no expert in modding this game, but I believe that type of tweak would not be too difficult to do? Anyway, out of the scope of this mod.

Edited March 2 by RoyalProtector
Clarification.

[DiesIrae]

I can see the plot reasoning for not drow. The assimar not so much. Bhaal supposedly had children with all races.

I generally play with 6 made characters so I will readd them for party members.

[RoyalProtector]

Just now, DiesIrae said:

Bhaal supposedly had children with all races

Yeah, but CHARNAME's mom is surely not someone who would be a priest of Bhaal, since half-celestials are always good.

Although, on second thought, why not? There are fallen solars after all so... The possibility should exist.

[moggadeet]

An aasimar doesn't have to be 1/4 celestial - the ancestry can be more distant than that, just like how not all tieflings are born of cambions. Personally the confusion around aasimar is more than a little frustrating to me, for reasons that aren't strictly relevant to bg1/2. Aasimar tend to be good-aligned, but their ancestry is just "denizens of the upper planes." Looking at the Planescape Monstrous Appendix entry, their alignment is "nonevil," and they're prone to intermarry, with few aasimar bloodlines being more than 4-5 generations old (implying that an aasimar can be 4 generations removed from their celestial ancestor).

Drow, though, that I can understand forbidding, both for chapter 5 and for the potentially jarring lack of reactivity elsewhere (although I suppose the same could be said of a tiefling Charname.) But if you were playing a drow, it would also be a bit strange not to get some kind of reaction from Viconia and Baeloth - or from the Flaming Fist or Belmin Gergas, for that matter. Some of the BG2 checks for "elf" would also need to exclude a drow PC (thinking of how Elhan wants to geas Viconia if she's in the party). So that does seem... complicated.

[DavidW]

I'm fairly relaxed about aasimar bhaalspawn if people think it's sensible.

Drow is another matter: as various people have pointed out, it's deeply woven into the plot. (Of course it's a one-character ini edit to enable them if you want them; just don't blame me for story incongruities.)

[RoyalProtector]

12 minutes ago, moggadeet said:

An aasimar doesn't have to be 1/4 celestial - the ancestry can be more distant than that

If that's the case I think enabling aasimar is sensible enough. Alianna doesn't have to be a half-celestial (and didn't need to be good, regardless, as you pointed out). Aasimar are also known to be evil sometimes so, that's fine. Tbh I think roleplaying-wise it's kinda interesting -- like how paladins are better equipped in a way to resist Bhaal's evil influence.

I support this decision. I understand the reluctance to add drow -- and we can leave that for those who want it regardless... or in conjunction with a mod that attempts to accommodate the game with the awareness of a drow charname.

[DavidW]

Incidentally, the other story-based blocks are:

BG: priests of Lolth (same issue as drow), priests of Umberlee (it breaks the Tenya quest in BG)

IWD: priests of Auril, Talona, Myrkul (in each case because fighting worshippers of that god is a substantial event in the core plot).

Again you can turn them all off at the ini if you don't mind story incongruities. (And SCS uses them whether or not you've turned them off.)

[Morgoth]

The real dream for me would be having the possibility to morph into a dragon, as Abazigal and Draconis can do.

I wonder how old Draconis is and if you could actually have that "adult" dragon form he exhibits.

[RoyalProtector]

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe those two are actually dragons to start with who can shape-shift into a human form.

NWN featured high level druid transformation into a dragon though, which would be cool, but probably difficult to do correctly, and more importantly, balance.

But anyway, getting a bit off topic.

[DavidW]

4 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe those two are actually dragons to start with who can shape-shift into a human form.

Correct.

4 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

NWN featured high level druid transformation into a dragon though, which would be cool, but probably difficult to do correctly, and more importantly, balance.

I think I had this as a Dragon Disciple HLA at one point. The biggest problem is technical:the dragon avatar is way too big to fit in most areas.