Ajantis thread

[Guest Seifer]

As Jastey was kind enough to send me these details I'd like to post here for my own referencing:-

 

The family Ilvastarr is a canon one:

Family Name: ILVASTARR

Prominent Members:

Patriarch: Ulguth Ilvastarr

Consort: Mara Ilvastarr

Heir: Gotom Ilvastarr (second son)

Trade & Interests: beast-taming and breeding, cooking of exotic meats

Arms: field: gold minidragon: metallic green (body), orange (eye)

You can see their coat of arms here: http://www.nctimes.net/~bryonw/heraldry-ilvastarr.htm

 

Looking at a map from Waterdeep, the family mansion can be found in the North Ward (http://www.raflar.com/fantasyrpg/waterdeep-northward.html)

 

I thought to make him the youngest of four children,

first son: died when Ajantis was 5 due to desease

second son: Gotom

third daughter

fourth son: Ajantis

[Domi]

added to the character sketch

[jastey]

Hi,

I'll continue here and hope you'll notice...

 

My question is, for what reputation you expect what reaction from a paladin (=Ajantis?)

Here is what I thought:

-Of course, for rep greater than 14 he will be happy.

-Between 14 and 12 he will be OK.

-Between 12 and 10 (I think you start with 12? Is that true for neutral alignment, too??) he will start getting suspicious / unhappy and start complaining

-Lower than 10 he could leave the group.

 

Is this scedule acceptable? Or is 9 for leaving the group too high?

 

I need this convention to trigger the romance reactions.

[Tomakok]

Hi,

I'll continue here and hope you'll notice... 

 

My question is, for what reputation you expect what reaction from a paladin (=Ajantis?)

Here is what I thought:

-Of course, for rep greater than 14 he will be happy.

-Between 14 and 12 he will be OK.

-Between 12 and 10 (I think you start with 12? Is that true for neutral alignment, too??) he will start getting suspicious / unhappy and start complaining

-Lower than 10 he could leave the group.

 

Is this scedule acceptable? Or is 9 for leaving the group too high?

 

I need this convention to trigger the romance reactions.

Well you start with 12 if Lawful Good

 

11 if Neutral or Chaotic Good

 

10 if Newt anything

 

9 if Neutral or Lawful Evil

 

8 if Chaotic Evil

 

Lower than 10 means he leaves the group sounds pretty good to me...most people who include Paladins in their party will probably make sure it doesn't go below that anyway.

[jastey]

Hi Tomakok, I feel honoured you post your first ever post as a replay to my request... Welcome to G3! Have fun!

Thanks for the infos.

[Guest Seifer]

his leaving straight away based on rep probably depends on two things.

 

1) How is defining evil actions, by actual party action or by textbook definition

2) How much he is willing to learn before feeling that his principles are being mocked, etc.

 

With Ajantis, he's a n00b paladin, still a squire so each of the above is as likely as the other. Whilst someone like keldorn might recognise inherent goodness in a rogue who steals from the rich to give to the poor, would Ajantis look at the theft only and suscribe evil intent to it?

 

Plausibly.

 

On the other hand, if he feels that his learning is advanced by understanding the motivations/thought processes of this innately good person, he may stick around despite their negative imagage.

 

Seif

[Sir BillyBob]

Based on Seifer's logic, you could start tons of dialogs after each situation that triggers a rep reduction. A new paladin may want to know why the player did what they did. He would also tell the player why he doesn't think it was such a good idea. After all, a paladin wants to improve on events in life, for the better of all people. He should also warn the player that such future actions will not be tolerated.

[jastey]

1) How is defining evil actions, by actual party action or by textbook definition

2) How much he is willing to learn before feeling that his principles are being mocked, etc.

 

I agree to your thoughts but we can only use what Bioware gives us. So I take the reputation as a decision support because I have nothing else. I can't trigger which answers the PC gives to other persons (unfriendly or helpful) or how he behaves in general. A lot of help requests the PC can decline without loosing rep. (This is something for the interjections, by the way - here Ajantis could interfere and tell his disagreement.)

 

Seifer: On the other hand, if he feels that his learning is advanced by understanding the motivations/thought processes of this innately good person, he may stick around despite their negative imagage.

 

Sir BillyBob: Based on Seifer's logic, you could start tons of dialogs after each situation that triggers a rep reduction. A new paladin may want to know why the player did what they did. He would also tell the player why he doesn't think it was such a good idea. After all, a paladin wants to improve on events in life, for the better of all people. He should also warn the player that such future actions will not be tolerated.

 

It's a nice thought but what I don't like is the term "tons of dialogs"... And again: Even if I wanted to make all these dialogues for Ajantis' learning (ignoring that some players might be more than slightly irritated by all this talking), I still don't know for some situations how to trigger the conditions for the talks. So if the PC is rude to a beggar: Wouldn't this be a situation where Ajantis should start one of these learning dialogues? But how should I trigger this? It's impossible!

 

Yet I agree to your thoughts. But it shouldn't be handled the way Sir BillyBob proposes but by interjections, because there Ajantis speaks in the crucial situations. (If wanted, there could be an interjection added to the talk to a beggar, too, asking the PC why he/she doesn't help.)

 

But for romance talks I'll stick to the reputation because (at least in this game) if the PC did bad things the public did not appreciate they will be definitely bad for a paladin. So if your rep is lower that 12 you should be careful about what you say (lower 12 does not mean Ajantis breaks up in any case, it's just a situation where you shouldn't start talking about your liking of committing massacres - something like this could lead to an end of the romance).

In the lovetalks the PC will have lots of possibilities to explain herself, but at some point it has to be definite. The whole romance - Ajantis as a paladin (!) would get ridiculous otherwise.

[Domi]

So if the PC is rude to a beggar: Wouldn't this be a situation where Ajantis should start one of these learning dialogues? But how should I trigger this? It's impossible!

 

I agree that it should be handled as interjections adding Ajantis reaction if PC chose a particular reply to a beggar. They do not have to be long ones.

[jastey]

So if the PC is rude to a beggar: Wouldn't this be a situation where Ajantis should start one of these learning dialogues? But how should I trigger this? It's impossible!

 

I agree that it should be handled as interjections adding Ajantis reaction if PC chose a particular reply to a beggar. They do not have to be long ones.

... And I really would love to see Ajantis having good interjections, keeping in mind he is a paladin! There are just some situations where he *has* to react! ...Maybe now you know why it took me three months to do the interjections for Ajantis in my BGII-mod...

[Sir BillyBob]

I'm saying that you have "tons" of options (which isn't always a good thing). As for the dialogs, I have one where the PC tells a questor he doesn't care about the situation. In a non-Minsc party, there is a -1 rep. If Minsc is in the party, I jump to a comment he makes for the party saying that they would be glad to take on the quest.

 

In SOA, Nalia rags on you if you turn down a begger. Yoshi supports you saying that maybe your money is needed for something else. Therefore, any of these little comments are possible in a mod. You don't have to sweep the whole game with replace commands to everyone's dialog. But there may be some that you think it would be best for him to make a comment. I.e., joining the thieves guild, saving Vicky (Viconia), claiming you are Greywolf or not saving Prism, etc.

[jastey]

Ah, so I got the kind of dialogue wrong that you meant. We are both talking about what I call interjections: inserted dialogue lines for the NPC into (existing) PC-game character dialogues (best by I_C_T with triggers, or EXTEND_BOTTOM with triggers if your NPC should alter the dialogue path). We have the same opinion then.

[Domi]

And, yes, we are adding just this sort of things to the mod in the Phase II that we are coding right now. F.ex. Skie and Eldoth have quite a lovely interchange when you talk to a beggar... or Shar has a lot to say to Greywolf

[Sir BillyBob]