Mod NPC Idea

[Endless Twilight]

Something else that's turning up as I write more of Naomi to get a firmer grasp of her personality... I am strongly considering the idea of Naomi and Aerie developing a romantic relationship, though it would take a back seat to Aerie/Charname and Naomi/Charname if I ever manage to get around to writing a Naomi/Charname romance. Naomi is increasingly coming across as one of the younger party members, and she and Aerie see each other as peers and equals, after a fashion, though Naomi admits her initial instinct was to mock and taunt Aerie.

 

I don't know if this is something I will pursue, as it might make Naomi seem to run away with her own story (I'm thinking that Aerie alone might be able to pull Naomi to good alignment without any help from Charname as a result of their relationship and the effects it has on Naomi), and I don't know if people will scream bloody murder that I see Aerie as bisexual or not, but it is something I'm thinking about. And, if nothing else, one banter I may or may not leave in in the basic first version of Naomi has, well, Aerie doing some gentle flirting while Naomi has a moment of genuine silliness.

[Ipsy]

You might want to take a look at this quiz before making any final decisions. Not that your NPC sounds like a Sue--quite the opposite in fact--but better safe than sorry, I think.

 

Just a couple points:

1) Aerie/Naomi means that you'd have to deal with Haer'Dalis/Aerie, Charname/Aerie, possibly Naomi/Charname, and eventually Aerie/Aklon. And if the PC was female, it would be Naomi/Aerie/Haer'Dalis/Aklon/PC instead. Either way, that's a huge amount of stuff. Plus, there seems to be an unofficial "rule" that canon content--e.g., Haer'Dalis and Aerie--should always take precedence over mod content.

 

2) Aerie in early SoA is quite naive and almost pacifistic: "I'll hurt you if I have to!" is one of her battle cries. Having Naomi try to make her stronger and more confident has already been done, with both Charname and Haer'Dalis.

 

What follows is strictly my own opinion: Aerie seems quite young at first. She was captured as a young elf and then kept in a cage, so it's not too surprising, I suppose. As such, flirting doesn't seem very in-character. Perhaps Aerie, gentle soul that she is, would think that she was just being friendly.

 

Then again, everyone's interpretations of the Bioware crew differ. I don't really think that Aerie could be attracted to a woman. With the PC, she seems to be looking for someone powerful enough to protect her, but intelligent and sensitive enough to understand her situation and offer heartfelt sympathy. IMO, she's basically looking for a noble knight--her Prince Charming, if you will.

 

Last, Aerie simply doesn't strike me as confident enough in herself to flirt. She wants to love and be loved, but she doesn't really have the life experience or knowledge to make it happen. So she sticks with what she knows, and talks about herself, hoping that the PC will understand.

 

So, all that said, Aerie could certainly befriend a female character--one of her banters with Imoen in SoA comes to mind. But I simply don't think that she would consider romance.

 

Naturally, this is your character, your mod, and your decision I'm merely voicing my opinion as an Aerie fan.

 

Aerie redeeming Naomi would be interesting, though. Perhaps Naomi would be more likely to "convert" (for lack of a better word) if the good-aligned characters in general talked to her. Jaheira acts good, at least, and she and your character might have a discussion or two on the Harpers--as the Xzar/Harper quest demonstrates, their methods can be rather questionable. Mazzy has a very strong opinion of right and wrong, Keldorn in his quest a conflict between law and personal concerns, and Valygar issues with the corrupt Amnish law.

 

Best of luck with this!

[Endless Twilight]

You might want to take a look at this quiz before making any final decisions. Not that your NPC sounds like a Sue--quite the opposite in fact--but better safe than sorry, I think.

 

Eh. Score of 14-17, depending on some questions.

 

1) Aerie/Naomi means that you'd have to deal with Haer'Dalis/Aerie, Charname/Aerie, possibly Naomi/Charname, and eventually Aerie/Aklon. And if the PC was female, it would be Naomi/Aerie/Haer'Dalis/Aklon/PC instead. Either way, that's a huge amount of stuff. Plus, there seems to be an unofficial "rule" that canon content--e.g., Haer'Dalis and Aerie--should always take precedence over mod content.

 

True, which was why I'm only thinking about it - my very tentative plan would be that most of the romance-like banters wouldn't even fire if the Aerie/Charname or Naomi/Charname romances were possible. Haer'Dalis, I haven't figured out what I would do with yet, as Haer'Dalis and Naomi don't get along to begin with.

 

2) Aerie in early SoA is quite naive and almost pacifistic: "I'll hurt you if I have to!" is one of her battle cries. Having Naomi try to make her stronger and more confident has already been done, with both Charname and Haer'Dalis.

 

There is a bit of that, but it isn't the focus of Naomi's relationship with Aerie. Naomi has a very cynical appraisal of why Aerie is so unhappy and insecure, but comes to her own conclusions about that: in Naomi's mind, Aerie's problems stem from being afraid to let herself be happy again, lest it be taken away from her again. Initially, Naomi only appraises it as a metaphor for power - that Aerie is no different from any noble or other born to power who lost that birthright and is now afraid to seek power again, yet is desperate for power all the same. Naomi has no real plan for Aerie, and the general theme of their relationship is that each has something to teach the other. Naomi is from a harsh culture and has only a vague idea of how to care about other people and heal them. But in turn, perseverance and endurance are things her culture holds dear, and she can teach those things to Aerie.

 

Then again, everyone's interpretations of the Bioware crew differ. I don't really think that Aerie could be attracted to a woman. With the PC, she seems to be looking for someone powerful enough to protect her, but intelligent and sensitive enough to understand her situation and offer heartfelt sympathy. IMO, she's basically looking for a noble knight--her Prince Charming, if you will.

 

I take a different view of Aerie, and as I said, her relationship with Naomi is much more one of peers. In Naomi, Aerie sees someone who does know strength and perseverance, and wants to offer heartfelt sympathy, but openly admits that she doesn't know how. Naomi, in turn, is attracted to Aerie because she can't understand her - Naomi is a cynical person, and Aerie's sheer good-naturedness does not compute in Naomi's world view. She has trouble admitting it, but Naomi envies Aerie in a lot of ways, and they base their relationship on helping each other.

 

Last, Aerie simply doesn't strike me as confident enough in herself to flirt. She wants to love and be loved, but she doesn't really have the life experience or knowledge to make it happen. So she sticks with what she knows, and talks about herself, hoping that the PC will understand.

 

It's what Aerie knows that's key to her relationship with Naomi. Naomi is herself on the young side (I had intended her to be somewhat older, but the banters have been writing themselves and making her feel like one of the young party members), and in a way, Aerie's own simple ideals and desires are something Naomi wants to learn of. One dialogue has Naomi trying to explain that the ideas of hopeful idealism, true love, and the like are baffling to her. Such concepts simply aren't taught in Moonsea culture except to mock the folly thereof. Aerie makes Naomi wonder if she really does understand the world, or if Aerie's seemingly childish ideas have a weight of their own.

 

So, all that said, Aerie could certainly befriend a female character--one of her banters with Imoen in SoA comes to mind. But I simply don't think that she would consider romance.

 

To the contrary, I think Aerie would be more willing to romance a female character than a male. I think Aerie would consider a woman less threatening, someone she could more easily relate to and confide in. Aerie's flirtation, as it were, is of the very gentle sort - in one of the dialogues I've written, Naomi embarrasses herself by hinting at a more direct interest in Aerie, and Aerie asks if Naomi is blushing - which she is, and makes her even more embarrassed.

 

Aerie redeeming Naomi would be interesting, though. Perhaps Naomi would be more likely to "convert" (for lack of a better word) if the good-aligned characters in general talked to her. Jaheira acts good, at least, and she and your character might have a discussion or two on the Harpers--as the Xzar/Harper quest demonstrates, their methods can be rather questionable. Mazzy has a very strong opinion of right and wrong, Keldorn in his quest a conflict between law and personal concerns, and Valygar issues with the corrupt Amnish law.

 

That is part of my plan - Naomi's alignment shift is intended to be influenced by Charname, yes, but I'd always intended Keldorn for one to push her along, too. Mazzy, Jaheira, and Valygar... all very iffy. Aerie, however, directly challenges Naomi's view of how the world works, as does Keldorn. The best way to bring Naomi over to lawful good is for Charname to act good and travel in a party with good people.

 

 

Well, I may not go through with the idea - it gave me plenty to think about for Naomi's romance with Charname, if and when the time comes to write that.

[ericp07]

When in doubt, write it out...you can always put something aside if necessary, so that, even if you don't use it in the way originally intended, it might still serve as a valuable resource for something else!

 

Happy modding,

Eric

[berelinde]

Aerie redeeming Naomi would be interesting, though. Perhaps Naomi would be more likely to "convert" (for lack of a better word) if the good-aligned characters in general talked to her. Jaheira acts good, at least, and she and your character might have a discussion or two on the Harpers--as the Xzar/Harper quest demonstrates, their methods can be rather questionable. Mazzy has a very strong opinion of right and wrong, Keldorn in his quest a conflict between law and personal concerns, and Valygar issues with the corrupt Amnish law.

 

That is part of my plan - Naomi's alignment shift is intended to be influenced by Charname, yes, but I'd always intended Keldorn for one to push her along, too. Mazzy, Jaheira, and Valygar... all very iffy. Aerie, however, directly challenges Naomi's view of how the world works, as does Keldorn. The best way to bring Naomi over to lawful good is for Charname to act good and travel in a party with good people.

I've been wondering how you're going to handle the whole Torm/Bane thing beween Keldorn and Naomi. No matter how kindly Naomi is, that's going to be a sticking point for Keldorn. I would expect him to react to her pretty much like he reacts to Viconia, especially at first. Later on, if he thinks there's a chance of redeeming her, I could see him making the attempt, but the challenge there will be to keep him from trying to bring her salvation at the business end of the Holy Redeemer. Don't forget, Keldorn was alive during the Godswar and was already a paladin when Torm slew Bane. He will not have forgotten that. Keldorn isn't unreasonable, though. I'm sure that if the PC can keep them from fighting long enough for her to tell her story, Keldorn would probably be enthusiastic about her conversion to any other religion.

[Endless Twilight]

I've been wondering how you're going to handle the whole Torm/Bane thing beween Keldorn and Naomi. No matter how kindly Naomi is, that's going to be a sticking point for Keldorn. I would expect him to react to her pretty much like he reacts to Viconia, especially at first. Later on, if he thinks there's a chance of redeeming her, I could see him making the attempt, but the challenge there will be to keep him from trying to bring her salvation at the business end of the Holy Redeemer. Don't forget, Keldorn was alive during the Godswar and was already a paladin when Torm slew Bane. He will not have forgotten that. Keldorn isn't unreasonable, though. I'm sure that if the PC can keep them from fighting long enough for her to tell her story, Keldorn would probably be enthusiastic about her conversion to any other religion.

 

As I've written them, Keldorn and Naomi get along pretty well from the beginning - Keldorn's initial reaction is very negative, but Naomi immediately explains her distaste for the uglier aspects of Xvim's portfolio, and I generally write them as Keldorn seeing that Naomi's heart isn't really in the Lawful Evil deal. Charname may get a chance to intervene, but I'm trying to emphasize Keldorn's wisdom and charisma in his dialogue with Naomi.

 

As it is, I'm pretty certain that Naomi will turn to Torm in her alignment shift. She'll always be fairly hard-edged in her beliefs, and I intend for only some of her banters to change based on her alignment shift.

[berelinde]

It wasn't the lawful evil aspect I was talking about, it was the Banite part. Have a link.

[Endless Twilight]

Yeah, I know, and Bane is dead during Baldur's Gate - there's a shield in the game that makes mention of Bane being dead as of the game. Naomi does have connections with many of the old Banite clergy, but she is from near Zhentil Keep, where there are only two lawful deities whose worship is tolerated, and one is Loviatar. The other is Bane/Xvim/Bane again.

 

My point with Keldorn is that he recognizes Naomi as a heel-face turn waiting to happen, to borrow a trope phrase. I don't see Keldorn as being purely combat-style militant - his wife initially mistakes the party for people Keldorn converted, if I remember that dialogue right. Keldorn does indeed not like sharing company with an Authlim one bit, but chooses words and Naomi's fundamentally decent nature as the weapons to remove the problem, not a sword.

[Wisp]

he recognizes Naomi as a heel-face turn waiting to happen

That doesn't sound very lawful, though.

Personally I would prefer her without the "redemption." A LN cleric of a LE deity sounded interesting. But this probably isn't a poll.

[Endless Twilight]

That doesn't sound very lawful, though.

Personally I would prefer her without the "redemption." A LN cleric of a LE deity sounded interesting. But this probably isn't a poll.

 

You don't have to take Naomi with Aerie and/or Keldorn if you don't want, and if you care to talk with her, you don't have to encourage her towards a different sort of behavior. She'll be perfectly happy as a LN cleric of a LE deity who finds many of the extravagantly evil bits of the church to be distasteful and inefficient.

 

And there will be dialogue options that can kick back the redemption counter. Distasteful as she finds blatant villainy, Naomi has done some unambiguously evil things in the name of Iyachtu Xvim, but she'll probably only tell Charname about those things in her romance when she comes clean. One of them in particular should definitely make both Charname and the player cringe. Charname certainly can bring Naomi to regret what she's done. But Charname can also say that she did what was necessary, and shouldn't be ashamed of it.

[Endless Twilight]

Came up with a solution, for now, for Naomi and Aerie - I've already written and coded a few of their romance-related dialogues, but I've installed a cutoff point where none of the suggestive dialogues will fire unless AerieRomanceActive is at 3 and Haer'Dalis is not in the party. Naomi can be shy at times, so she won't suggest anything with Aerie unless she's certain Aerie has no one else on the horizon. Thinking about the Naomi/Aerie relationship did give me plenty of ideas for the Naomi/Charname relationship, if nothing else.

 

A more permanent solution I have in mind for later is to simply make Aerie/Naomi a separate and optional component.

 

A question, though: with the idea of making a bare-bones release first, how much dialogue with Charname would be appropriate? It would be of the player-initiated variety, but I'm not sure how much to write, or even what to write. One idea I am toying with is Charname being able to ask about some of the things Naomi has brought up in banters, as Charname is presumably listening. Naomi's fondness for and complete ineptitude at painting, for example, which comes up in her banters with a few NPC's.

 

As it is, here is the tentative plans for what Naomi's first version would include:

 

1. Banters with Bioware NPC's, interjections, Tree of Life and Hell dialogues.

 

2. Cleric and fighter/cleric .cre's to choose from.

 

3. Some player-initiated dialogue. As said, not sure how much.

[Endless Twilight]

Progress has been suspended on account of computer going kablooie, and the very real chance of wiping out all progress I did make.

[ericp07]

Progress has been suspended on account of computer going kablooie, and the very real chance of wiping out all progress I did make.

 

Nooooo!!! At worst, consider it a momentary setback. Gather all you can, and take time with it. You can rebuild When things look good again, back up early, and back up often

 

*Fingers crossed*

- E

[the bigg]

A question, though: with the idea of making a bare-bones release first, how much dialogue with Charname would be appropriate? It would be of the player-initiated variety, but I'm not sure how much to write, or even what to write.

Don't do it. If your first publicly available version is bad (the definition includes a 'bare bones' version), people will remember your mod as bad even after you release a full-content version.

 

Re: hard drive failures, I can recommend using Mozy for keeping online, crash-proof backups of your files. It's free up to 2 GB, pretty easy to set up, and after that it'll automatically maintain your backup up-to-date.

[Endless Twilight]

Point taken about the backing up in event of hard drive failure, but at this point, I can't even turn my computer on, and am posting on my girlfriend's computer.

 

In the event I have to reboot the hard drive or some such, oh well. Lost all the banters (or drafts thereof) for Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshimo, Aerie (non-romantic, a few romantic dialogues), Nalia, and Korgan, plus a banter sketch or two for the other Bioware NPC's. Not a catastrophic loss.

 

Anywho, another thought for the possible Naomi/Aerie romance - if I do make it a separate component, would it violate the unwritten rule if Naomi/Aerie did override Haer'Dalis/Aerie, while not installing that component would leave Naomi/Aerie only as friends?