Insane Sarevok fight (video) and some suggestions

[czacki]

Hey there. I'm replaying BG games after a few years (wow, time flew by...) and I'm glad to see SCS is still around. The fight with Sarevok with everything set to "Insane" was... well, quite insane. Had to restart a few times to get it right and use some abuse to trigger those guys without engaging Sarevok himself (using an invisible charctrer). Check it below. I'm not sure if you're supposed to have so many summons (I have the summon cap removed - playing on Enhanced Edition Trilogy Mod) but in the end it wouldn't matter that much I guess, those are meat shields anyway. Would need to dedicate 1 guy to using wand of monster summoning each turn if I played with the cap My main dude was dualling to a Mage at the point of the fight and his berserker levels were locked so he was pretty useless. Excuse me for my weird attempts to dispel a Scroll of Magic immunity, I thought it's the level 4 spell that stops level 1-3 spells from working

Going through SoD and BG2 made me consider a few things though:

1. was such a drastic nerf to Insect Plague necessary? I mean it's literally hammered by nerf after nerf after nerf. Doesn't work against undead. Doesn't bypass normal weapons immunity. Now allows a save for the spell failure each round (not that it matters for Demons, Dragons and alike since they ignore spell failure IIRC on Insane?) . Disabled by fireshields which everyone and their momma precasts on Insane difficulty. I'd risk saying it's one nerf too many, effectively killing the spell or transforming it into something that's only good for a very limited time against human mages that happen _not_ to spam fireshield, which is maybe throughout SoD to early BG2 at best.  I know you can disable the nerfs in *.ini but I believe the spell is a bit TOO good... just doesn't need four or five nerfs at the same time. One would fully suffice i.e. allowing a save OR being stopped by fireshield.

2. the very same thing strikes me about Inquisitor's dispel nerf, which is fortunately an option (whcih I don't pick) unlike the nerf above. here's the thing: everyone and everything spams spell protection: Abjuration in SCS. Dispel magic from Inquisitors, in all its might, is basically worthless most of the time against the targets that you'd want to affect Dispel Magic with. I'd say the SP:A spam makes Dispel Magic on the weak side, because by the time you're done with spell protections, you may as well cast breach rather than DM. At least it won't ruin your own dudes. If you consider that, adding an EXTRA nerf to Inquisitor's DM makes particularly little sense...?

3. Dispel magic used against YOU however is pretty annoying. I recall being showered by DM by some random dudes in Planar Sphere or by every Sahaugin mage I met. Obviously, being forced to rest&recast is annoying, so I literally ended up releasing my Berserker/Mage alone and spamming SP:Abjuration myself to prevent the constant dispelling at the very sight of someone trying to cast a spell. Perhaps "regular mobs" shouldn't be Dispel-Magic Trigger happy at all? Even with ease-of-use script, reapplying buffs is just a chore.

4. On the Sarevok fight: was the Mislead effect on Angelo/Semaj necessary? It doesn't say Mislead so it's probably something different BUT they turn invisible if you dispel invisibility from them (from offscreen - says Invisibility removed), save and load. They are invis again. They will also turn invisible at the end of some rounds bypassing the 1 spell/item per round rule sometimes. This is pretty frustrating in the end and it did force me to cheese it up with Potions of Firebreath (which bypasses all protections excluding fire resistance) and ninja wands of paralyzation (which ironically works on Sarevok, as seen below ). While the main goal of SCS is playing fair, I'd say this "extra invis" stuff should go. The fight is pretty challenging as it is, without unncessary "additions".

I absolutely love SCS and would not play the game without it. Some things (like the ones I mentioned above) could be tweaked a bit I think ?

Cheers.

 

 

[n-ghost]

Inquisitor dispel nerf is justified enough at the beginning of the new BGT game: each and every enemy mage up to Davaeorn can and will get instagibbed in first round of combat if you play un-nerfed PC Inquisitor. I think x1.5 nerf tones it down just enough to be useful without it being overpowered.

Using it in BG2/ToB is kinda redundant, since usually you either assign another caster for dispel duty, or just bruteforce through those protections in melee anyway.

On a side note, I can't quite remember if there are any enemy inquisitors in game at all, pass pissing Keldorn off. Are there any? 

 

Glad to see that Sarevok fight is as ridiculous (in a good sense of the word) as ever, finished it in 32.4 roughly in a same way.

[czacki]

Yeah, I guess you're right on the BG1 part where Inquisitor is basically godlike: being immune to hold & charm (two most common effects spammed against you), being able to move in webs without ring of free action (so you can spam web the moment your mage learns it), and instant dispel that gets rid of everything at once. I guess if it followed a curve (x1 for levels 1-7 (BG), x1.5 for levels 8-11 (SOD) and 2x for 12+), it would be fine tuned without breaking it.

 

I don't think there are enemy inqusitors and even if they were, they'd be fighters you'd laugh at anyway (SP:A).

 

Sarevok fight got my blood pumping, it's really fun. I only dislike this cheesy invisibility that bypasses 1 cast per round rule and is reapplied "offscreen" (on saveload). I don't think it goes well with what SCS intends to be (fair) and is annoying as hell.

Edited September 27, 2019 by czacki

[Guest Guest]

Angelo doesn't seem to use his arrows of detonation with scs installed, which is a shame since it was a distinctive feature of the original fight.

[czacki]

Since I'm playing through BG2 part now - none of the "big fights" are as crazy as Sarevok finale. SCS is more fair in BG2, not giving the enemies crazy bonuses like in this case.

[n-ghost]

@czacki did you have a shot at Improved Bodhi yet?

Edited October 17, 2019 by n-ghost

[czacki]

The one from Tactics? I did beat her years ago in my original playthrough of SCS, but I turned improved vampires OFF entirely, as (like many people) I consider this component to be overly annoying and frustrating without any real difficulty increase (it merely adds some micromanagement AKA "send dudes with Mace of Disruption/Amulet of Power forward, make the rest hug the corner).

I recall it being quite crazy, I think I wildmage-cheesed it though back them (when Chaos Shields stacked when used in a Sequencer) by repeatedly emptying my spellbook including HLAs. The level limit was off due to me playing Baldur Gate's Trilogy.

it was over a decade ago! crazy to think about it...

[DavidW]

- if Angelo isn’t using his Detonation arrows, it’s a bug; will address

- it’s possible IP is overnerfed now. Possibly with the new nerfs (which make it match the spell description) the others are overkill. Will muse.

- Inquisitor has been around for ages and different people have different views. No plans to change it, since in any case it’s a separate component.

- I’m not sure what the “extra invis” is. It’s some ordinary spell, not something scripted for Angelo/Semaj. Probably mislead (SCS hides the spell name). Are you sure an illusionary version wasn’t around somewhere?

[czacki]

DawidW, thanks for the reply. What Angelo/Semaj would do was this: they would cast a spell (let's say confusion) and as the round ends they disappear without casting another spell (1 per round limit...), using a potion (no *gulp*, no feedback given) or a sequencer/contingency with invisibility spell.

It does look like they are under "Mislead" effect that they cast off-screen before teleporting.

It's something that makes them invisible whenever you i.e do this:

1. remove their invisibility ("detect invisibility") while remaining out of combat, i.e. by activating them with an invisible character like I did in the video and backing off.

2. save

3. reload

 

when the game loads they are invisible again. So it's either mislead, or they are force-scripted to turn invisible each round (?).

 

Also, would be great on the IP.

Edited October 24, 2019 by czacki