A major reason why SCS should go *before* EET_end

[gurt]

So we already know that the author of EET (as well as several other modders AFAIK) believe that it was a mistake for SCS to restrict its installation until after EET_end. More here: https://www.gibberlings3.net/forums/topic/30443-scs-latest-and-eet_end/?tab=comments#comment-271022

The problem is this: Installing new mods into an existing EET install should be easy. Simply uninstall EET_end, install the mod you want, then reinstall EET_end.

Unfortunately SCS now acts to block this. If you've ever tried to uninstall a full SCS install via Weidu, you know that this is a time-consuming, even unreliable process; often the Weidu installer will simply time out. Since SCS makes more direct edits than pretty much any other mod out there, uninstalling and reinstalling it is simply impractical (if it's actually possible at all).

This means that you now have a hard block in your EET install that effectively *prevents* you from uninstalling EET_end.

If the justification is that any big mod (with npcs/creatures) installed over SCS would not be affected by the SCS changes, so what? That should be the player's choice.

For some people, it might be more important that a companion mod or big quest mod with many creatures be properly integrated with EET (eg join dialogs, 2DA files, etc) and NOT SCS. People should have that option.

[jastey]

@gurt Welcome to the forums!

14 minutes ago, gurt said:

Simply uninstall EET_end, install the mod you want, then reinstall EET_end.

It's never that easy I'm afraid. Mods have dependencies, need certain install order, etc. And then you'll find yourself deinstalling half of the mods for one new mods and need to start a new game afterwards, anyways. And for a larger rearrangement of mods I'd rather start with a fresh EET tbh, I had too many quirks with WeiDU only partially deinstalling mods etc. (in my thousands of installs & uninstalls for testing).

-Not trying to silence a discussion about install order.

[gurt]

Fair enough!

I find myself completely deleting my BG folders and starting from scratch a lot. Just two days ago, I had to wipe my install and start from scratch again... 

 

Nevertheless, I strongly believe that SCS should *not* restrict Weidu install until after EET_end. I believe this is contrary to K4thos' intention and contrary to the whole point of EET_end. Other modders have shown that there is no reason at all to have SCS after EET_end (or even that late in the mod install order).

The whole point here is the restriction. It's fine if it's advised to install SCS late or even last or even to advise that the player install it after EET_end. That's DavidW's perogative, and it's perfectly fine.

But IMHO it's *not* fine to force the player to install it after EET_end. Even EET_end has no such restriction (it can even be installed early if the player wishes, despite what the install instructions say). What's to stop K4thos or someone else from adding a new restriction in a subsequent EET release so that EET_end must be installed after SCS? This would effectively make the mods incompatible for most of the public.

I don't think it's fair for modders to force such restrictions on players, especially when they are unnecessary (again, if there is any benefit whatsoever from installing SCS after EET_end instead of before, I'm not aware of it).

The point is that players should have a choice.

Edited August 12, 2021 by gurt

[jastey]

To this I can agree fully. I don't know enough about the technical details with regard to SCS and EET_End to say anything helpful, though.