3E/5E-style spellcasting - reducing the importance of spell casting times

[subtledoctor]

I recently read a post where someone complained about how some enemies are scripted with ForceSpell which makes it impossible to interrupt them. The complaint was, basically, that this was unfair or made the enemies too difficult. I realized I see this a lot: players lean really hard on the crutch of hitting an enemy with insects or poison, which basically makes it impossible for them to cast spells, which basically turns powerful archmages into walking pin-cushions. There are some mods that try to address this - the SR/SCS combination in particular makes mages as dangerous as reality-bending magic users should be. But the core of the complaint is a window into how the tactics of these games can sometimes be rather shallow: the complaining player wanted the ability to stun-lock powerful enemies, with a technique that the enemies generally cannot bring to bear against the player.

While SR/SCS/etc. can make that situation better, it doesn't address the core of the issue. After all I never really see this tactic used in tabletop play - or, if it is there, it certainly doesn't have the prominence that it has in the BG games. And it occurs to me that this is really an artifact of transposing a turn-based game into the IE real-time-with-pause engine. In general I don't think you see this mechanic in turn-based play; in 5E you seem to simply cast your spell on your turn, end of story, unless you are grappled or disabled somehow. I don't recall 3E but I don't think it has this "casting speed" thing, and even in a RTWP variation 3.5E in NWN2 I don't think spells can be interrupted.

So IF this is not really an important aspect of the game rules, but more a consequence of how those rules got translated into a real-time game; and IF in these real-time games it acts a bit more like a crutch than like an interesting and euqally-available-to-both-sides tactical consideration... then why not try to limit or even eliminate it from consideration? How could that be achieved? What would that do to gameplay? Would other adjustments be needed to counterbalance the change?

ToBEx added an option to make spell interruption subject to a dice roll, which is great. (This is supposed to be D&D after all, right? Things should operate via dice rolls!) Beamdog eventually added this to the EE engine, but it is hilariously broken (you are more likely to be interrupted by less damage, so a mosquito bite ruins your spell but a hit from a greatsword +5 does not). And Beamdog has not seen fit to fix the bug in the course of four engine patches over 5 years, so I'm not holding my breath for them to get their act together.

So... what about simply reducing all casting times? Just let every spell get cast at the start of the round on which the caster wants to do it. If it works in tabletop play and NWN2 (and maybe other games with which I'm less familiar), why not BG2? You're still governed by the 6-second clock so it doesn't change the pace or the fundamental capabilities of the spellcaster; it only removes the question of whether their spell will get cast.

This would make the Wizard Slayer FAR more interesting as a kit, since it would make it suddenly the single best way to impair enemy casters' capabilities. A lesser version of the ability could be added as a feat for warriors and rogues, if a mod made such things available (ahem), enabling a particular kind of strike to impose spell failure chance for a round. So you could get up in a caster's face and try to stop their casting, but only by a more intentional technique. And it could be limited to melee attacks except in special cases (maybe Archer kits could choose a ranged version), so it would balance the dominance of ranged weapon power.

We could also add balancing factors to casters in place of spell interruption. Maybe casting a spell takes great concentration, and every time you do it you suffer a ~2-second period of being Slowed afterward. That would make you easier to hit in melee (4-point AC penalty, right?) and harder to hit enemies (4-point to-hit penalty, right) and harder to get get clear of attackers (50% movement speed) immediately after casting a spell. Maybe casters could take a "defensive casting" feat that would remove this penalty. So that would be an important for a fighter/mage or Blade or something.

This would pair well with a mod that reduces spells' duration or strength etc.

Of course there might be other ways to do this. Since interruption happens when you get the "took damage" animation, maybe that animation could be overwritten...? Then instead of doing an automatic interruption based on the animation, we could apply a short (1-3 second) casting failure effect on all melee hits, which could vary with your kit/feat/weapon/whatever. Then you could still interrupt casters, and the timing of the attack would still matter, but it would be subject to a dice roll, and there could be ways to develop your character so as to improve your chances.  More options for character development it good!

Any other ideas or thoughts? I could write this up as a mod pretty easily, depending on the implementation. It would go well in our "Low Magic World" mod collection, or in my 5E Spellcasting conversion mod.

Edited September 3, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
At present, what you proposed isn't how I'd like to play the game, but I know others may like it.  This vanilla spell disruption system just felt right to me, even if it hurt our side.  If you want to do this, go ahead!  (Maybe fix the default Concentration option if you haven't already.)

D&D 3.x - and maybe also 5e - have an explicit counterspell option.  Ready an action to cast a spell to negate an enemy spell if cast.  These same systems also have the ability to ready an action to attack or cast a spell when a foe starts casting a spell, attempting to disrupt them with damage or status effects to force a Concentration check or/and some other save/check to prevent losing their spell.  (If done correctly,, the enemy has a 5% chance at most to succeed on this check.)

Thankee!

Edited September 3, 2021 by Endarire

[Graion Dilach]

5 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

ToBEx added an option to make spell interruption subject to a dice roll, which is great. (This is supposed to be D&D after all, right? Things should operate via dice rolls!) Beamdog eventually added this to the EE engine, but it is hilariously broken (you are more likely to be interrupted by less damage, so a mosquito bite ruins your spell but a hit from a greatsword +5 does not). And Beamdog has not seen fit to fix the bug in the course of four engine patches over 5 years, so I'm not holding my breath for them to get their act together.

Considering that this is related to spellcasting, maybe @Galactygon  can help you pass the issue over if you can explain where the difference is.

I'm otherwise agreeing on this, because the whole stunlock idea is just full cheese, especially how it boost Insect Plague into one of the best spells.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Graion Dilach