Let’s ki- I mean, change! Throne of Bhaal

[moggadeet]

I guess for me a plot alteration of this scale would feel more in the realm of fanfiction than anything else? That's not to say I'd consider it a bad thing, just to clarify (since I know for some people that might sound like a condemnation). More that it falls under a type of canon-divergence I associate with fanfic rather than with modding, which tends to focus more on adding rather than altering, particularly as there's fewer barriers to that kind of change in fanfic, where you don't need to worry about (in)compatibility and so forth anyway.

I do think it'd be interesting to try and reckon more with "what does it mean to be soulless," since there's so little of that that's reflected in-game. One involuntary death-lobster moment (maybe two), loss of a stat point and some innate abilities, then that's it, you're... fine, apparently. The irony of killing in order to wrest control of your soul from your murderous nature goes totally unaddressed. I'm not really sure how you'd go about trying to explore this in-game in a way that felt interesting and not too heavy-handed; a lot of it feels like it should be very internal/reflective in a way that's difficult (though not impossible) to explore in the form of a game.

All of which is to say - I think the idea is interesting for sure, and ToB being a string of battles threated together with a too-obvious villain and an otherwise not terribly interesting overarching plot makes it ripe for fixing. If this mod existed I'd definitely want to give it a go. It just feels like it belongs to a somewhat different category of fanwork to me, I guess? Which isn't bad, just different. Nor do I think total conversions are automatically something to be feared or disliked, just because someone went about making one in the worst possible way.

And an alternate approach to ToB seems like it could potentially offer a chance to offer non-evil Charnames a path towards Lunia that's otherwise only accessed via Dorn's quest - imagine the righteous powers that be wanting to put Charname on trial, having the chance to try and prove yourself (or not).

The last thing I'll add here is that the idea of starting ToB alone feels like it risks undermining the character aspect that is one of the draws for a lot of people, depending on how quickly you reacquire your companions. If you're alone for a significant portion of this hypothetical revised ToB, well, for me that would be kind of a deal-breaker. And if not - with a whole different main story, most mod NPCs are right out. For original NPCs, it seems like you could be looking at rewriting an enormous amount of material. Banter would probably be fine because little of it is context-dependent, but interjections, romance dialogue, etc, a lot of that is very specific and seems like it might need to be totally redone, depending on the scope of what you have in mind. Overall I fall on the side of ToB being unsatisfying to play simply because it doesn't deliver on the things that matter to me, but I guess I'd still want to try and fix it rather than going in a totally alternate direction. Though what that would entail, I'm not sure. Charname building an army of their own? Really, anything's more interesting than being dragged along by Melissan, but that's a low, low bar.

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Gorionar said:

Yes, it’s about her mod, which changed the main quest line and the NPC as the main character than the main character himself.
With your idea, you are going a little along this path.  Do you want to create a Total Conversion,

Oh. That's fair but Roxanne's mod inserted itself into the game itself, and derailed/throttled a bunch of characterization in the base game. And a bunch of content from other mods. I am indeed talking about a total conversion - an alternative to ToB. Like, imagine someone wanted to make an expansion for SoA where you not only send the Solamnic Knights home, but leave behind Faerun's drama and follow them to Krynn, and finish out your adventuring days ignoring Bhaal and instead striving against Takhisis. Or something like that. And given that your character would not ever end up in Saradush or Amkethran or even Suldenesselar, those maps could therefore be reused for this alternate-reality mod. (In fact Suldenesselar would be a great map to represent Silvanost or Qualinost.)

Or consider how, in the actual Forgotten Realms lore, there is no such place as the Hand of the Seldarine. It was created from whole cloth for the IWD game. So a BG2 mod, with knowledge that Charname could never visit the IWD area, can repurpose that map. It doesn't break any lore apart from the lore contained entirely within the IWD game(s) and in Charname's experience there is no such thing as the IWD game. Likewise, reusing ToB locations does not break any lore apart from the lore contained entirely within ToB. So, the vanilla version of ToB is scrapped in favor of this total conversion, then the conversion does not break any lore.

1 hour ago, StummvonBordwehr said:

In all I would say that the SubtleDoctor seems very far from the “covers Queen” aka Roxanne. If you ever wanna go that way SB, you have to put in much more effort.

  That is not a direction in which I would like to direct my efforts. And I will never touch anyone else's mod except maybe to mess around on my own computer and learn from them. (Even to the point where Lava does not want me to help make his IWD mods work on EET... I disagree with his stance, to put it mildly, but it is 100% Lava's decision and I would never go against that.)

1 hour ago, StummvonBordwehr said:

If you ever got to add some stuff - besides dialogue - it would be much appreciated.

Of course. Unfortunately while my tinkering with Black Pits and IWD areas has enabled me to manipulate and use existing .ARE files, and I can pretty well work with .CRE, .SPL, .BCS, and .DLG files, the actual production of areas is simply not in my wheelhouse. So I could, e.g. grab an area from IWD2 or maybe PST (hint, hint) and convert them work work in a BG2 mod. But that's probably the best I could do without assistance.

17 minutes ago, moggadeet said:

a plot alteration of this scale would feel more in the realm of fanfiction

Very fair! But, honestly that's what ToB feels like to me

20 minutes ago, moggadeet said:

starting ToB alone feels like it risks undermining the character aspect that is one of the draws for a lot of people, depending on how quickly you reacquire your companions. If you're alone for a significant portion of this hypothetical revised ToB, well, for me that would be kind of a deal-breaker. And if not - with a whole different main story, most mod NPCs are right out. For original NPCs, it seems like you could be looking at rewriting an enormous amount of material. Banter would probably be fine because little of it is context-dependent, but interjections, romance dialogue, etc, a lot of that is very specific and seems like it might need to be totally redone

These are very good points. I will say, my sentiments run toward the tragic, and the desire to finds one's companions is a strong motivation that appeals to me. However, yes, dealing with the vanilla character advancement and interrupted romances etc. is a tricky issue. (Of course, there is a part of me that retorts, all the character advancement we need happens up to and including the moving conversations at the Tree of Life - again, SoA contained all the ending I really need for this game.)

[Trouveur80]

10 hours ago, moggadeet said:

And an alternate approach to ToB seems like it could potentially offer a chance to offer non-evil Charnames a path towards Lunia that's otherwise only accessed via Dorn's quest - imagine the righteous powers that be wanting to put Charname on trial, having the chance to try and prove yourself (or not).

Though what that would entail, I'm not sure. Charname building an army of their own? Really, anything's more interesting than being dragged along by Melissan, but that's a low, low bar.

I really like your first idea,would be a nice addon mod to ToB.

As for the second, I thought sometimes ago about a mod in which strongholds would have a more important role, notably in ToB, in order to have a small army in order to oppose the Five and save some civils from their destruction. 

[moggadeet]

I've thought about the stronghold angle as well, good to know I'm not the only one who wanted more continuity there. What I'd really love is to potentially use a stronghold (or the Pocket Plane itself) as a means to try and rescue as many people from Saradush as possible, given that, you know, Gromnir does warn you.

The other thing I'd be interested in is an actual quest prerequisite to summon a deva/planetar, something involving a demonstration that the player is aligned with their ethos, goals, etc. Maybe that and the Lunia concept could go together actually (though fallen deva/planetar would need a different path).

[subtledoctor]

Okay, the more I think about this and read the discussion, the more I realize that I want to see two things. First, an "interquel" mod on the outer planes about how Charname gets back to Faerun from hell where you defeat Irenicus. (Which in the game files is actually called "The Abyss?" Is that actually supposed to be the Abyss, or is it supposed to be Bhaal's domain in Gehenna and the internal files just have a weird name?) I think there is fertile ground to be covered here, because you are in a very strange position: you were somehow pulled into the lower planes, but there was not exactly any gate that opened, so... did you actually travel? Do you have a body? Are you alive? Plus you only stopped him from becoming a god - you didn't necessarily get your soul back (again, there is no mechanism for that to happen, apart from hand-wavy story progression). It could be super cool to have a mod that spends a few hours in the weird solipsistic PS:T style outer planes, properly getting your soul housed and getting back to Faerun, and meeting/fighting some wild characters along the way.

BUT, that could just get you right back to the beginning of ToB in the giant head grove. Just like how the Crucible inserts itself into the game but doesn't change you going from Point A to Point B, it only lets you play through that journey.

So it doesn't have to replace ToB; in which case, second, there could also be a mod that improves ToB itself. (The problem here being, if I can't cannibalize the ToB areas, then I can't actually make that interquel mod. ) And yes, the stronghold should play more - much more - of a part. In fact I don't really see any reason to cut you off from Athkatla and the other SoA areas after you defeat Irenicus. Your stronghold should be assaulted, and there should be an large-scale battle like the one in SoD. If you are a fighter it could be soldiers on your side but if you are a ranger or druid you could have animals in your ranks and if you are a bard it could be the Athkatla City Guard, aided by bards and Cowled Wizards.

I still can't see how to improve the meat of ToB itself, though. The Five are powerful warlords with entire armies, and most of the game involves your ragtag band of six peeps casually strolling into the heart of their powerful and destroying them. It's... dumb. I keep trying to see how the meat of the mod can be a compelling story, and I just can't. As has been said it's basically a series of cage matches; framing it as an actual series of cage matches a là Black Pits 1/2 would actually be better, because at least then the story would match the content.

[morpheus562]

What about killing SoD and incorporating it into SoA and ToB? Need hell to get your soul back? You have Avernus. Need siege camps to raid? You got the friendly and crusader camps to attack. Want some great dungeons, to include a destroyed Temple of Bhaal? Those exist too.

This is all one needs on an EET playthrough to skip SoD and transfer immediately into SoA upon Sarevok's defeat (it will also transfer over all SoD items into SoA):

COPY_EXISTING ~BDSODTRN.BCS~ ~override~
    DECOMPILE_AND_PATCH BEGIN
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~StartMovie("SODCIN01")~ ~~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~MoveToCampaign("SoD")~ ~CreateCreatureObject("K#TELBGT",Player1,0,0,0)~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~Wait(3)
        FadeToColor([1.0],0)~ ~Wait(3)
        ApplySpellRES("K#REST",Player1)  // No such index
        ApplySpellRES("K#REST",Player2)  // No such index
        ApplySpellRES("K#REST",Player3)  // No such index
        ApplySpellRES("K#REST",Player4)  // No such index
        ApplySpellRES("K#REST",Player5)  // No such index
        ApplySpellRES("K#REST",Player6)  // No such index
        FadeToColor([1.0],0)~
    END
BUT_ONLY

COPY_EXISTING ~K#TELBGT.BCS~ ~override~
    DECOMPILE_AND_PATCH BEGIN
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~ActionOverride(Player2,MakeUnselectable(1))~ ~ActionOverride(Player2,DropInventory())
        ActionOverride(Player2,MakeUnselectable(1))~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~ActionOverride(Player3,MakeUnselectable(1))~ ~ActionOverride(Player3,DropInventory())
        ActionOverride(Player3,MakeUnselectable(1))~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~ActionOverride(Player4,MakeUnselectable(1))~ ~ActionOverride(Player4,DropInventory())
        ActionOverride(Player4,MakeUnselectable(1))~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~ActionOverride(Player5,MakeUnselectable(1))~ ~ActionOverride(Player5,DropInventory())
        ActionOverride(Player5,MakeUnselectable(1))~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~ActionOverride(Player6,MakeUnselectable(1))~ ~ActionOverride(Player6,DropInventory())
        ActionOverride(Player6,MakeUnselectable(1))~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~GivePartyAllEquipment()
        SetGlobal("bd_plot","GLOBAL",700)~ ~GivePartyAllEquipment()
        SetGlobal("BD_HAVE_SOD","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_11","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_05","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_04","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_09","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_08","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_06","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_07","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_03","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_10","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_01","GLOBAL",1)
        SetGlobal("BD_SOD_IMPORT_02","GLOBAL",0)
        SetGlobal("bd_plot","GLOBAL",700)~
    END
BUT_ONLY

 

Edited February 25 by morpheus562

[subtledoctor]

45 minutes ago, morpheus562 said:

What about killing SoD and incorporating it into SoA and ToB? Need hell to get your soul back? You have Avernus. Need siege camps to raid? You got the friendly and crusader camps to attack. Want some great dungeons, to include a destroyed Temple of Bhaal? Those exist too.

Ha ha, that's a very interesting idea.

I would go a bit further than just transitioning straight to SoA. Probably a very short miniature transition mod - maybe an earthquake sequence in the temple when Sarevok dies, then outside the temple you get accosted by the Flaming Fist. They say they have evidence that you were in fact in league with Sarevok, and only betrayed him at the last moment to steal the glory for yourself. Planted evidence, of course, but Irenicus could do so quite easily. You protest that you defeated him but where is the body? No one believes you. The Flaming Fist captain is sympathetic, but he has orders. You can fight him, but there is an army on its way and you won't win. Or you can go with him and end up in prison, setting up the standard SoD prison escape sequence. Or he can report that he never saw you and you can leave the Undercity by a different exit and leave Baldur's Gate, find a safe place to hole up until cooler heads prevail. And this skips the prison escape but jumps you right to the cave escape and capture by the Shadow Thieves.

Would have to add in something explaining how Jaheira/Khalid/Minsc/Dynaheir join up, but that can be done. Easy enough with more than the ten seconds thought I've given it so far.

Then the various parts of SoD could be cannibalized for one-off adventures. If one were to chop up SoD I could see at least four really good mods that could be made from it. Maybe more:

• Stitch together the Coast Way Crossing, Coast Way Forest, Dwarven Dig Site, Korlasz' Dungeon, and Kanaglym for a BIG undead-centric quest mod in chapter 2 of SoA.
• Use the Troll Claw Woods and Forest of Wyrms as the basis for an expansion of the Ranger stronghold quests.
• Use Bloodbark Grove and Dead Man's Pass as the basis for an expansion of the Druid stronghold.
• A little mod about smugglers using the Underground River map.
• Use Boareskyr Bridge, Avernus, and the Temple of Bhaal for an SoA-ToB "interquel" mod. (Would need some more... maybe could scrounge from PS:T)
• The Coalition Camp and Dragonspear Courtyard could add meat to ToB itself, inserting some proper army-vs.-army battles.

Would be a metric ton of work, though. And a bit ironic because, for all its imperfections, I think SoD is a better game than ToB.

Edited February 25 by subtledoctor

[morpheus562]

Maybe a good portion of ToB can be converted to finding, recruiting, and building your own army to counter your siblings' armies. The adventure can open up into exploring new areas where you can do quests to recruit and build your forces along with smaller side quests to better train/equip them. As your forces increase, you can see them added to your siege camp. It could be scripting heavy, but it may be possible for finales to include fights between your army and those of the opposing forces.

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, morpheus562 said:

Maybe a good portion of ToB can be converted to finding, recruiting, and building your own army to counter your siblings' armies. The adventure can open up into exploring new areas where you can do quests to recruit and build your forces along with smaller side quests to better train/equip them. As your forces increase, you can see them added to your siege camp. It could be scripting heavy, but it may be possible for finales to include fights between your army and those of the opposing forces.

Maybe it just needs to be more straightforward. Forget the misdirection, which never served a great purpose anyway. That was always a flaw in Mel's character. The other flaw was that she should come out of left field and adopt BOTH of the strategies already used by the excellent antagonists of BG1 and BG2 - she does a better job starting a large war than Sarevok did, even though he was an evil genius and spent years developing his plan; and she does a better job of using bhaalspawns' souls to become a god, even though she lacks Irenicus' demigod-tier magical talent and lacks any mechanism to take and use souls like Irenicus did, and lacks a divine trigger like Suldenesselar's Tree of Life.

Instead of having her re-hash the same plots, give her a third, different twist on the same basic theme. Make it simple: she is the leader of a cult of the dead god Bhaal (we have seen hints of his remaining followers time and time again, especially if you have various mods installed) and she wants to bring Bhaal back. Again, I see nothing in Alaundo's prophecy that necessarily says Bhaal will return when the Bhaalspawn die, or that the last Bhaalspawn standing can take is place. Sarevok was an expert on such things and his plan was quite different. But Mel's take on the prophecy can be along those lines. Maybe she has a way - or thinks she has a way - to harvest the divine sparks of all the Bhaalspawn, and revert it to its original form: Bhaal himself.

So you hear that someone out there is using divination magic to suss out Bhaalspawn, and is taking them out one by one. Some hide; some run, and are killed. The most powerful, though, begin to amass power around themselves. They are powerful, secure... but also paranoid. Mel cannot assault them directly, but she can turn them against each other. So task 1 for Charname is to survive some (more) assassination attempts, and build up power and security in your stronghold. Allies, magical wards, whatever. Task 2 is to reach out to other Bhaalspawn - The Five - and try to save them. Or at least talk to them. But they are not nice people, and maybe they would as soon kill you as roll the dice trusting you.

So you ally with some, make enemies of others. And maybe move the Saradush portion to the end of the mod, because Yaga Shura is out of control, destroying Gromnir's whole town. So you go through the bit about defeating Yaga Shura by extinguishing his heart... but in this version someone gets it first! With so powerful a Bhaalspawn heart Mel has enough to enact the ritual. So now the race is on. You mobilize your allies, and the Bhaalspawn who refused to ally with you move against you. Have it use a counter such that one army always allies with you and two against you - so in one game it could be Charname and Balthazar against Abazigal and Sendai, while in the next game Abazigal could be aligned with you and the others against. Based on a combination of alignment and conversation options. In any event you have a major fight, two armies against two armies. Could even re-use the Bridgefort map for this, and when you bust through the enemy lines you find Mel and her Bhaalist cohort on Boareskyr Bridge - maybe her whole plan was inspired by witnessing you on the bridge, back in SoD. And it is a classic party battle to interrupt her ritual and prevent Bhaal from being revived. But you are too late - she vanishes, transporting herself to the Throne of Bhaal to revive him. There is a way, however: you can go through the Dragonspear gate to Avernus, and there find a portal to Gehenna, and if Crucible is installed fight your way to the Bhaal's fortress. And then finally fight Mel at the Throne.

[morpheus562]

Crucible touches heavy on Mel's betrayal of Bhaal to become the new Lord of Murder. Yaga says she approached the Five with the plan for them to be demi-gods, and I doubt they would care if they served Amelyssan or Bhaal. 

[megrimlock]

So, I like the SoA-ToB interquel, but since you actively namecheck PS:T, and you previously mooted integrating PS:T into EET, why not use the PS:T maps for this?

Re what a changed ToB would look like, and running with what you are suggesting:

You emerge from the interquel back to your mortal bodies in Suldanesselar. Ellesime updates you on what has been happening in your extended absence, namely a big war to the south between Bhaalspawn. Given her racial loyalties, Ellesime points you towards Sendai, and that opens up Sendai's lair on your map (The Thael NPC mod I think posits that Sendai was in Ust Natha shortly before you and Irenicus were there, though it's not in English yet). But you need an army to get through Sendai's army before you can take a small party into the lair itself. Perhaps Ellesime will give you your first recruits, under Elhan.

So you start recruiting, in something halfway between the SoD campaign and the recruitment of allies for the ch6 Bodhi fight. Whilst this is going on, you are ambushed by Illasera (on a random map, meaning the Grove of the Ancients map could be used for something else). If a second Bhaalspawn ambush is desired, Enegar and Kastulor are sitting unused in the game files...

The next timed event after the one (or two) assassination attempts is that Yaga-Shura attacks your stronghold whilst you are away. Depending on how long you take to build an army, this could be before or after you attack Sendai. Since a lot of the classes have strongholds in Athkatla, that might mean the need for a new map (Athkatla outskirts or Walls of Athkatla, say). You need to break his siege, but given that he is invincible, he gets away. This leads to the Fire Giant Temple being added to your map (though as in the original ToB, he isn't there).

You check on your stronghold, at which point there is another attack, this time by dragons sent by Abazigal. Defeating this attack will add his lair to your map, though as with Sendai you will need an army to get past his army to then bring your party into his lair.

I'm not sure what the trigger for adding Amkethran/Balthazar to your map is.

Like you say, Yaga-Shura's attack on Saradush could be the last timed event, and the last area added to your map. Given his invincibility and the steps you need to take to negate that, it makes sense to make him the last of the Five you take out (though in this version, there is not much - if any - talk of "the Five", just that they are powerful Bhaalspawn warring against one another). There are not lots of irrelevant Bhaalspawn gathered by Melissan here, just a populace under Gromnir.

Saving Saradush leads you to speak with Gromnir, who whether you attack him or ally with him talks about Amelyssan the Black and her plans - and could as you say direct you to Boareskyr Bridge (or maybe the SoD Temple of Bhaal initially). Perhaps Amelyssan's forces are aided by whichever of Abazigal/Sendai/Balthazar's forces you have neglected to take out by this stage.

"Melissan" therefore does not exist in this version. And the pocket plane gives you access to Cespenar, and trials, and juggling NPCs, but does not magically transport you around the map.

And as you say, after the Boareskyr Bridge fight, you use the portal in Avernus to get to her.

Possible interactions with other mods (without creating dependencies):

Thael - see above.

Black Hearts - if you completed this mod perhaps you can talk down Illasera from a fight.

Cost of One Girl's Soul/Love Conquers All - if you have saved Skie's soul via one of these mods, the Gate's Flaming Fist could be a faction available for recruiting to your army.

Will o the Wisps - the shaman stronghold could be an additional potential site to be attacked.

cdtweaks - If you have multiple strongholds, Abazigal will send his dragons to attack a different stronghold to the one that Yaga-Shura attacked.

Crucible - the portal opens to Crucible first rather than the Throne. I don't see why Amelyssan's betrayal of Bhaal for herself can't be a last twist, and hence have there be no incompatibility here.

Ascension - doesn't seem to be any reason why Amelyssan couldn't resurrect the powerful Bhaalspawn you have vanquished, whether or not they are called the Five or whether or not she was the one who led you to kill them.

Edited February 27 by megrimlock

[subtledoctor]

On 2/27/2024 at 5:07 AM, megrimlock said:

I like the SoA-ToB interquel, but since you actively namecheck PS:T, and you previously mooted integrating PS:T into EET, why not use the PS:T maps for this?

Possible, but that would mean taking bare maps and completely building up the content in them. By cannibalizing ToB a lot of the work is already done. Just need to change the story that winds its way through those maps.

At any rate, it is possible. The basic outline of the plot I have in my head would still work with different maps and characters. Though, in that case it would be even more useful to use Watcher's Keep for it. After all it never made that much sense for WK to be on a Prime planet full of bumbling villagers and adventurers. It makes much more sense for it to be a planar stronghold.

Latest idea: Sarevok was an extremely intelligent expert on Bhaal and Alaundo, and he thought the way to quicken the divine essence in his blood was by starting a war. After all Bhaal was the god of Death and people are dying, and even being murdered, like every day everywhere on the planet. To make a noticeable difference would require death on a much more massive scale, and some kind of ritual and special location - like Sarevok had set up in the old Temple of Bhaal in the Undercity.

I've been thinking about SoD lately, and how imperfect it is - not as bad as ToB, but still not great. Since both SoD and ToB involve war... why not smush them together and make a single larger story about that? Instead of a weird Bhaalspawn murder round robin, have several powerful Bhaalspawn trying to do what Sarevok could not: trigger a massive war and ascend that way. That, at least, gives due deference to the plot of BG1 and Sarevok's. And all the pieces are already there: maps, factions, NPCs, armies. In an EET mod you could even go back to the BG1 areas, to the campaign could stretch from Amkethran in the South all the way to Baldur's Gate - and, of course, Boareskyr Bridge. You could have Yaga Shura's army marching north after demolishing Saradush, Balthazar's monks and mercenaries trying to stop him, and Caelar Argent with an army from the north deciding to simply exterminate all Bhaalspawn to remove the prophecy's threat. A combined force of Suldenesselar elves, Amnian soldier and Cowled Wizards, and Flaming Fist mercenaries could be recruited by Charname to protect the Sword Coast (or, if evil, act as your army so you can ascend).

Mel would be a player manipulating things behind the scenes, with a trail of breadcrumbs that only Charname knows about. Ostensibly to bring Bhaal back, but really to take power for herself. You would always be one step behind, and at the end she would in fact ascend to the Throne - leading to a desperate rush through Dragonspear Castle to Avernus, and from there through a gate to Gehenna (protected by Belhifet), and then, if installed, through The Crucible to the Throne of Bhaal, where you can finally challenge her.

Would be a metric ton of work, though. Would need all-new versions of Nashkel and Beregost (maybe Baldur's Gate would just close the gates again, and no let you in - you could meet up with the Flaming Fist forces outside the city), in addition to tearing apart and rewriting most of both SoD and ToB.

[morpheus562]

I'm thinking of doing a mod called "Souls of Destiny", let's call it SoD for short, that will mostly skip the Dragonspear expansion (minus the escape from BG) and reuse/repurpose the Dragonspear assets within ToB. PC, in addition to defeating the five, will focus on building and recruiting an army of their own to contend with their siblings.

[subtledoctor]

28 minutes ago, morpheus562 said:

I'm thinking of doing a mod called "Souls of Destiny", let's call it SoD for short, that will mostly skip the Dragonspear expansion (minus the escape from BG) and reuse/repurpose the Dragonspear assets within ToB. PC, in addition to defeating the five, will focus on building and recruiting an army of their own to contend with their siblings.

Basically what I am (clumsily) describing. I already have (in fact, have already started working on) what I think is an interesting idea for the BG1-BG2 transition…

Edited March 19 by subtledoctor