Item Revisions Mod

[Guest Guest*Ospite]

I have a couple suggestions regarding the Shuruppak's plate, if you haven't already solved that issue.

 

-It could be the only armor with no DEX or Movement penalities, making it really special imo, in a situation where every other armor carries such penalities. Maybe you could reduce its AC accordingly, as a balancing effect.

-It's use should be restricted to neutral and evil characters only. After all Shuruppak was the chosen of Gilgeam and an infamous mass-murderer... so I don't think a paladin should be allowed to wear it.

-Looking at Shuruppak stats from the epic level handbook, he should be aFighter 20/wizard 7/rogue3 (3.5 edition stats because I could not find the 2nd edition ones, but I think it fits) so maybe allow arcane spellcasting with a penality that could make it interesting (20%)

 

Just my 2 cents, let me know what you think.

[Jarno Mikkola]

... so maybe allow arcane spellcasting with a penality that could make it interesting (20%)

Hmm, or you(Demivrgvs) could make all the armors actually make the casters cast slower their spells without the spell failure, as the failure is quite harsh punishment...

[Demivrgvs]

I have a couple suggestions regarding the Shuruppak's plate, if you haven't already solved that issue.

I thought about doing something similar to your suggestion, though I was just going to make it of mithral (which would have made it considered a medium armor when assigning encumberance and spellcasting penalties). I don't remember exactly why I discarded the idea...probably it was for balancing issues. Restricting it to non-good characters seems quite appropriate to me and would also help to make it less over-used in case we decide to make it so powerful.

 

I really can't understand how Bioware designed this armor: it's a full-plate specifically built for one of the most powerful characters in the Realms who is well known to wear only a black robe, and probably wouldn't even wear a light armor being a fighter/mage/thief! Was Gilgeam so stupid to ignore what would suits best his champion?! And on top of that, the human sized armor is in possession of Yaga Shura, a fire giant (though I know this is a more common problem)!

 

Hmm, or you(Demivrgvs) could make all the armors actually make the casters cast slower their spells without the spell failure, as the failure is quite harsh punishment...

Actually Mike already had this component in mind and started working on it. I don't know if he abandoned it or not. I don't like it at all, but if he is willing to do it and he still likes the idea he may implement it as an optional component. Anyway, it would cause serious balancing-gameplay issues imo.

[Guest Ospite]

Now that you make me think of it, the fact that Yaga Shura is wearing it makes the vanilla fire resistence even less appropriate... I mean, he's a fire giant, why would he even bother enhancing his fire resistence?

 

It is true, as you say, that Shuruppak is well known for his black robe and probably wouldn't wear an armor in any case. If you find that this needs changing badly, I would not mind if you changed the background completely. Maybe something more appropriate to a Fire Giant user...

 

I'd like to be constructive, so there is my idea I just come up with:

How about a Breast Plate i.e. a piece of metal designed to cover the hearth, and rather than having a Base AC have it give a Bonus AC, say a +3, and protection from critical hits (a bit of a stretch, I know, but not more than ioun stones preventing criticals, imo.)

So it would be simpler to justify the "No DEX and movement penalities" part from a roleplay perspective, and it would make room for some cool abilities.

Think about a "Runic Breastplate of preservation" that could give Death Ward and also have some charged ability... it would make a good set with the Runehammer Yaga already wields...

Wath do you think of this?

[Demivrgvs]

Now that you make me think of it, the fact that Yaga Shura is wearing it makes the vanilla fire resistence even less appropriate... I mean, he's a fire giant, why would he even bother enhancing his fire resistence?

 

It is true, as you say, that Shuruppak is well known for his black robe and probably wouldn't wear an armor in any case. If you find that this needs changing badly, I would not mind if you changed the background completely. Maybe something more appropriate to a Fire Giant user...

I've taken it into consideration, but writing a good background isn't so simple (at least not for me) and this item is one of the few in ToB which has a decent one. Removing the fire resistance is surely something I'm going to do.

 

Regarding your suggestion:

- having the armor enhance AC instead of setting it is quite interesting, but I have to think about its effectiveness (especially when paired with powerful bracers)

- protection from critical hit is hardcoded, only items in the head slot prevent criticals

[Guest Ospite]

I just tought that maybe a completely different armor from the standard ones, which protects only a part of the body, could be more fitting for a Giant. The animation of Yaga Shura, however different from the standard Fire Giant, does not suggest that he is wearing a full plate either, so it's kinda justified...

I have a suggestion for another item, unless of course you haven't already decided otherwise.

 

-Helm of the Rock

 

I think it would be appropriate to make it influence enemies in sight range... the description of the improved one suggests that "Generals and military leaders can command both fear and respect simply by wearing this helm." I think that the unimproved one could have an effect wich influences the enemies saving throws vs. fear (like an opposite of the Bless spell) as an hint for the Aura of Command ability of the Improved One, and when Improved the helm could simulate the effect of a Bless spell (only the morale part) on allies. If you want a new name or background for the Improved helm of the rock, I found an interesting story at http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tangled_Trees about general Halfar Audrak. Give it a look, maybe you could use it, for that item or for something else. If you choose to adopt it, however, you could change the elemental resistance with something more appropriate, thus differenciating it further from the helm of defence.

Of course these are only suggestions, but I hope you find them useful.

[Jarno Mikkola]

- having the armor enhance AC instead of setting it is quite interesting, but I have to think about its effectiveness (especially when paired with powerful bracers)

Or you could make the armor adjust the wearers Dexterity (Modifier opcode15) while it is equipped. As even the games Dexterity table seems to suggest it.-the 18's, 19's and 20's -4

DEX	 AC Adj.	 
3		 +4   
4		 +3 
5		 +2 
6		 +1 
7		   0 
...
14		  0
15		 -1
16		 -2
17		 -3
18		 -4
19		 -4
20		 -4
21		 -5
22		 -5
23		 -5
24		 -6
25		 -6

[Eidolon]

I just discovered that PnP lavander ioun stone absorbs all spells of level 4 or lower up to 20 levels of spell, than it disappears... have you ever considered using it in someway, maybe a spell deflection/reflection effect? It would become unique among ioun stones imo...

 

Ospite was me, by the way. ;-)

[Demivrgvs]

Helm of the Rock

I think it would be appropriate to make it influence enemies in sight range...

I like it and I've thought about it myself. At the moment the Helm of Glory already have the "bless aura" you are suggesting, thus I may have to slighty adjust the former or have the latter work slightly different because of IR's policy you probably well know. Anyway a sort of aura is surely the first thing I've in mind for it, maybe a Cloak of Fear (vs. enemies) + Resist Fear (for allies) effect?

 

Lavander Ioun Stone

I just discovered that PnP lavander ioun stone absorbs all spells of level 4 or lower up to 20 levels of spell, than it disappears... have you ever considered using it in someway, maybe a spell deflection/reflection effect? It would become unique among ioun stones imo...

Are you able to read my mind? My internal build had it work as a sort of permanent Minor Spell Deflection (which is renewed every 10 rounds). I temporarily discarded it as it was quite problematic:

- "spell deflection" cannot be made as a "while equipped" effect, I had to make it affect the character as soon as it is equipped. Thus I had to add an effect to prevent it from working on other party members for 10 rounds once equipped, else you can just equip it on everyone and remove it instantly

- for this very reason I had to make it renews itself quite often, else players may decide to change it with another amulet and just equip it every once in a while to renew the spell deflection charges

- it seems Spell Deflection has an issue similar to Spell Shield, sometimes it's able to absorb an infinite amount of spells without vanishing! Fortunately this is "counterbalanced" by the fact it won't deflect spells of 5th or higher level, and having it renews every 10 rounds means this rare "infite deflection" is at least removed after 10 rounds

 

I would work on something like that only if most players think it's a must-have.

Or if I have quite a lot of spare time, which is not going to happen anytime soon.

 

Or you could make the armor adjust the wearers Dexterity (Modifier opcode15) while it is equipped. As even the games Dexterity table seems to suggest it.-the 18's, 19's and 20's -4

I don't understand what you are suggesting...

[Jarno Mikkola]

Can't you make the Lavander Ioun Stone to have the Minor Spell Deflection as once per day ability.

 

I don't understand what you are suggesting...

Well, you reduce the characters Dexterity so as to make him more rigid...

For example; If we say that leather armor, studded leather, hide armor, scale mail, elven chainmail give no Dexterity penality, while chain mail, splint mail and plate mail the char takes -1 penalty to dexterity, and for full platemail -2 to his dexterity, you'll make the archers, thieves, mages etc. think twice before they put up a full plate armor, while Korgan and Keldorn, fighters with low dexterity will put one, cause they get more out of them than they loose. The Dex table is there for the very high dex chars(meaning char with dex of 20)... as they can wear even the full plate without AC penalty from the reduced dexterity.

[Eidolon]

Can't you make the Lavander Ioun Stone to have the Minor Spell Deflection as once per day ability.

If I understand correctly Demivrgvs does not like for the player to be able to simply cast the spell and then replace the helmet (or anything else) with another one for the battle. Would it be possible to cast spell deflection once on the start of the incounter ( something like the ability of a sword I am sure I read on this topic but can't really remember which one...) just once during the whole battle? If spell deflection is such a problem, wouldn't a globe of invulnerability of short duration do the same thing?

 

At the moment the Helm of Glory already have the "bless aura" you are suggesting, thus I may have to slighty adjust the former or have the latter work slightly different because of IR's policy you probably well know. Anyway a sort of aura is surely the first thing I've in mind for it, maybe a Cloak of Fear (vs. enemies) + Resist Fear (for allies) effect?

I like it ! I can't get what "IR policy" means, anyway.

[Jarno Mikkola]

If I understand correctly Demivrgvs does not like for the player to be able to simply cast the spell and then replace the helmet

That's easy to solve, just put a curse effect to the helm(preferably a temporally when the spell is cast), as then you can't remove the helm, and you are immune to the Remove Curse spell, until...

[Eidolon]

Oh... "IR" Stands for "Item Revision"... *now* I feel quite stupid... I have always had a bad time with acronyms...

[Demivrgvs]

Well, you reduce the characters Dexterity so as to make him more rigid...

For example; If we say that leather armor, studded leather, hide armor, scale mail, elven chainmail give no Dexterity penality, while chain mail, splint mail and plate mail the char takes -1 penalty to dexterity, and for full platemail -2 to his dexterity, you'll make the archers, thieves, mages etc. think twice before they put up a full plate armor, while Korgan and Keldorn, fighters with low dexterity will put one, cause they get more out of them than they loose. The Dex table is there for the very high dex chars(meaning char with dex of 20)... as they can wear even the full plate without AC penalty from the reduced dexterity

Have you looked at the list of main changes? What you're suggesting seems the very "armor's encumberance" component listed in the Global Changes thread (or the first page of this thread). Am I wrong?

 

Would it be possible to cast spell deflection once on the start of the incounter ( something like the ability of a sword I am sure I read on this topic but can't really remember which one...) just once during the whole battle? If spell deflection is such a problem, wouldn't a globe of invulnerability of short duration do the same thing?

Yeah, I could make it take effect when enemies are in sight, but its problems would remain the same (technically speaking this solution is even more problematic unfortunately ).

 

I can't get what "IR policy" means, anyway.

Sorry, my fault thinking everyone looking out for IR has gone all the way through this infinite thread! Anyway I meant that I don't like having two items (especially of the very same type/category) do pratically the same thing.

[Eidolon]

Anyway I meant that I don't like having two items (especially of the very same type/category) do pratically the same thing.

Ah yes, I understand now... I must say I agree with you. I was reading the topic to find something else to comment on, and I found the Impaler spear. I never liked how the impaling damage was implemented in the vanilla game, and I'd like to throw in a couple of suggestions:

 

- Add some bleeding/damage per round( like vanilla's Corthala blade?): The impaler has, IIRC, a nasty barbed pointy,and if you are impaled on a pointy stick, you can bet there is going to be blood, so seems appropriate to me. I don't think there is something similar for another spear.

-Instead of having the Impaler do 10 points of piercing damage on every single hit, maybe it would be more realistic to implement decreasing probabilities of doing more and more damage. Doesn't sound plausible to me that you can always do the same amount of damage in a combat situation, so the 10 fixed points of damage would become something like this:

1d8+3 + 40% of doing 1d6 extra damage, 30% of doing 1d10, 20% of doing 2d8, 10% of doing 2d10, something like that. It would simulate the difficulty of impaling somebody properly while he's still alive and fighting, and if they are stackable (but I don't know if that's possible) it would be possible to do some really massive damage. The probabilty for that would be fairly low tough... for example using the set of values above we have less than the 0,03% of dealing 26 points of damage every hit, (but I could have miscalculated) using medium values. It should be reworked obviously, but imo the idea has some merit.

 

Let me know what you think of this, ok?