Invisible sirenes?

[jastey]

SCS v16 installed as in this weidu.log. I encounter some sirenes turning / being invisible without a spell, they just don't seem to be there or vanish without any comment. I have never seen this before, could that be from SCS?

If they talk to the PC, dialogue happens but the sirene stays invisible.

If they attack, they cast the spell "invisibility" (spell animation is visible) although they were already.

[DavidW]

SCS v16 installed as in this weidu.log. I encounter some sirenes turning / being invisible without a spell, they just don't seem to be there or vanish without any comment. I have never seen this before, could that be from SCS?

If they talk to the PC, dialogue happens but the sirene stays invisible.

If they attack, they cast the spell "invisibility" (spell animation is visible) although they were already.

 

In SCS, Sirines generally start off invisible (they can go invisible at will, so why not start invisible?) It's possible that's clashing with some other mod, though I haven't come across that before. I'll see if I can follow up your PPG thread (no promise as to timing, I'm a bit caught up with IWD-in-BG2 atm)

[jastey]

The main problem is that in LoSC, the sirenes become neutral, and one of them (Sil) the PC wants to talk to /attack respectively. In the report I got, the player wasn't able to locate invisible Sil any longer, asking for the cheat-in code.

 

As long as they are neutral, they don't have a reason to show, I guess. Do they sporadically get visible again? Or is there a way I could make Sil visible for the appropriate time, reversing the SCS effect?

 

If this is a feature from SCS, then I would like to report:

-Not all sirenes are always invisible, it sems to be a random thing (I reloaded a lot of times to test something and it was random which sirene was invisible and which not).

-They do not turn visible if they talk to the PC.

-If fighting starts and the neutral (invisible) sirenes turn hostile and start attacking, they turn themselves invisible (spell animation and spell description in the text box), although they were invisible already (the spell effect showing alone).

[DavidW]

OK, so the randomness is deliberate, but I'm being caught out by the possibility of neutral sirines (something that I don't think happens to at least those sirines in the unmodded game). I ought to fix it at my end: neutral sirines shouldn't start invisible. The simplest thing, I guess, would be to attach

 

IF
!Allegiance(Myself,ENEMY)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
	  NoAction()
END

to the top of %tutu_var%irspell.

[jastey]

neutral sirines (something that I don't think happens to at least those sirines in the unmodded game).

Sil is neutral in the vanilla game, too, when she is first met. She starts a dialogue after which in vanilla game she turns hostile (so I guess the neutralness doesn't really count in this case).

The only other ones I can think of are the sirines in the temple East of Beregost. All sirines met in wilderness are hostile.

 

(With LoSC, they turn neutral, too, if a peace treaty with Sil is accomplished.)

 

I ought to fix it at my end: neutral sirines shouldn't start invisible.

That would be great. Would they turn visible if neutral, too?

 

The simplest thing, I guess, would be to attach

 

IF
!Allegiance(Myself,ENEMY)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
	  NoAction()
END

 

to the top of %tutu_var%irspell.

Hm, that would make them completely motionless while they are neutral? I am a bis scared fo script blocks like those, as they block nearly everything. Right now, Sil should start two dialogues if neutral.

[DavidW]

neutral sirines (something that I don't think happens to at least those sirines in the unmodded game).

Sil is neutral in the vanilla game, too, when she is first met. She starts a dialogue after which in vanilla game she turns hostile (so I guess the neutralness doesn't really count in this case).

The only other ones I can think of are the sirines in the temple East of Beregost. All sirines met in wilderness are hostile.

 

(With LoSC, they turn neutral, too, if a peace treaty with Sil is accomplished.)

 

I ought to fix it at my end: neutral sirines shouldn't start invisible.

That would be great. Would they turn visible if neutral, too?

 

Probably arrangeable. (I don't do this kind of thing as a matter of course because hardly any creatures turn neutral in BG/BG2)

 

The simplest thing, I guess, would be to attach

 

IF
!Allegiance(Myself,ENEMY)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
	  NoAction()
END

 

to the top of %tutu_var%irspell.

Hm, that would make them completely motionless while they are neutral? I am a bis scared fo script blocks like those, as they block nearly everything. Right now, Sil should start two dialogues if neutral.

 

AI combat scripts in tactical mods generally block nearly everything anyway - otherwise it's very CPU-intensive. For that reason, SCS does a lot of work to make sure the general-combat script is below all other scripts.

 

In this particular case, sirines (iirc) have two scripts, one that handles dialog and turning hostile, and another that handles combat. The combat block (""%tutu_scripts%"irspell") is second, so things work ok. (Unless LOSC adds extra blocks below the combat block)

[jastey]

How are different scripts handled concerning importance? I know that a script gets executed top to bottom, but I wouldn't know about the different scripts being weighted. LoSC adds a script as General script that triggers everything, includinh the dialogues and the turning hostile in case a (mod) sirene gets hostile.

[DavidW]

How are different scripts handled concerning importance? I know that a script gets executed top to bottom, but I wouldn't know about the different scripts being weighted. LoSC adds a script as General script that triggers everything, includinh the dialogues and the turning hostile in case a (mod) sirene gets hostile.

 

In the order listed in NI, i.e. Override - Class - Race - General - Default. General is probably not the best place to put the script you're describing. I think the vanilla sirines have their combat script in Race and their go-hostile / engage-in-conversation script in Class, so you should probably either overwrite the Class script or use the Override slot.

[jastey]

Ah, OK. I will reorganize the script(s) from LoSC and BG1UB, then - currently, they add the Class and the General script. Or, better say they both add a Class script currently. In the future BG1UB will add a script as General script, then.

 

EDIT: If you would do changes for neutral sirines in the next version that would be great, but no hurry. The quest should be solvable with the next versions of LoSC and BG1UB.

[DavidW]

Ah, OK. I will reorganize the script(s) from LoSC and BG1UB, then - currently, they add the Class and the General script. Or, better say they both add a Class script currently. In the future BG1UB will add a script as General script, then.

 

This is one place where life would have been a lot simpler for modders if the original game designers had been more systematic. As it is, you really have to decide on a creature-by-creature basis where to put any new script. For quest/NPC mods, that usually means putting the script into the highest unused slot, and sometimes rearranging the existing scripts to make room.

[cmorgan]

My suggestion is treat them as npcs- override for all the dialog, and various checks to set/unset neutrality based on such, and class for the combat - default for wtargsight. LotSC is actually turning these particular sirenes into quest characters, after all.

[cmorgan]

Sorry - quick-posts snagging a few seconds here and there... incomlete thought.

 

Coran's wyverns - Ascension64's fix - repalce existing in area with custome ones so base creatures remain the same but the ones specifically associated with this area and quest are their own special group. Modify them as regular NPC additions - override for everything except combat, customized combat script for backup.

 

With LotSC, DavidW's point about creatures going neutral is the tip-off. These are no longer generic Sirienes - they are ones specific to this quest/area.

[jastey]

Makes sense, cmorgan.

But with the scripts assigned and /or patched from LoSC,k BG1UB, and SCS from the next versions on, the LoSC quest should work fine, so that is good enough for me. Unless I am missing something.